Why would you care if its piggish...? I am not sure I understood the second part of the question, but it is a coin that is scarce enough that there are always more collectors seeking one than there are coins available. If someone has two, it means that someone who wants one will not get one.
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Some would buy more than one and go around bragging about it and how they are screwing smoe other collector out of it; that kind of person I would consider more that just piggish; to me he is a first class arsehole. If you want it just buy it and keep that to yourself.
<< <i>If someone has two, it means that someone who wants one will not get one. >>
So what? If 10 people want one and only 2 are available it means 8 people aint gonna get one; you can't please em all.
I'm gonna go against the crowd. I have found people "hoarding" dates on some of the series that I collect putting out whatever money necessary to acquire the coin. Doesn't matter what they sold for in the past, what any price guide says. Money is no object. For me, this is pricing me out of the market quickly. I have decided to all but stop buying at this point. If others are seeing the same thing and backing off, and I know others that I've talked to that are, this can mean the top is approaching. I have bid some pretty strong money on coins (up to 2X previous sales) and still lost on the coin. When only a few can afford the coins at any price and the "common man" backs out, the market will begin to die.
Buy what you want and don't worry about others. They don't know you, care about you, help you, worry about you, etc. Why would you even consider not buying a coin for that reason. If they made 100 of them and you could have them all, go for it.
Go for it - pretend your collecting by die state or variety.
"My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko, Big Moose.
Oink, Oink-- but in the capitalist pig (good) sense.
If the particular coin is that desirable, and one comes on the market rarely, by all means you should buy it if you desire. Since when was hoarding key dates a bad thing?
Always took candy from strangers Didn't wanna get me no trade Never want to be like papa Working for the boss every night and day --"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
Unless you're approaching it as an investor, I think it's piggish, and not in a good way. There seem to be three scenarios:
If you're looking at it as a collector who wants 2 (or more) of the same coin in his collection: I think you should aim to have the single best/nicest example you can afford of each coin in your set. Not two or four or six examples of each coin. Being greedy just ruins the market for other collectors. Some other collector will probably get more happiness from having that "single" coin than you will get from owning the "second" piece. So let the other guy have it, and hope that karma returns the favor when you're looking for something.
If you're looking at it as piece for trade: If you're looking to get the piece so you can trade it for something else you really want, then I don't see a problem with buying it. Your plan is not to hog two pieces, just to give yourself a better shot of getting another piece you don't have, which seems fine.
If you're looking at it as an investment: Then buy what you want, even buy the top 100 examples if you think it makes financial sense.
I'm impressed that you approach this with thought of the other collectors out there. Unfortunately most people on this thread don't seem to care about that.
"Men who had never shown any ability to make or increase fortunes for themselves abounded in brilliant plans for creating and increasing wealth for the country at large." Fiat Money Inflation in France, Andrew Dickson White (1912)
What's the population? If it's a low pop coin, like say 4 or 5 and you own 2 of them, you can almost demand whatever price you want when you sell the first one, and when you sell the second one the price will have been established by the first sale. If the pop is higher, like 100, it almost doesn't matter. Bottom line, if you want it, persue it. You can only help protect the investment you have already made.
<< <i> If you're looking at it as a collector who wants 2 (or more) of the same coin in his collection: I think you should aim to have the single best/nicest example you can afford of each coin in your set. Not two or four or six examples of each coin. Being greedy just ruins the market for other collectors. Some other collector will probably get more happiness from having that "single" coin than you will get from owning the "second" piece. So let the other guy have it, and hope that karma returns the favor when you're looking for something.
<< <i>
==> Well let's look at it this way. You are a series collector. Some people are Type collectors. I am neither.
I collect one coin, one date and mintmark I like, obtain several examples over time and move on to another. I like comparing them. That's just how I collect coins. I copied a few lines from my website below to illustrate my point:
A friend of mine wound down his series collecting of copper, some years ago. I would see him at the coin shows all the time. He then started collecting only one coin - chain cents. He had many of them. It was something to see. He knew his chain cents.
My mom's supervisor at a Department store in the 1950's collected only 1932 quarters P,D and S from the store's cash registers. She had been doing this for years and had a bunch of them and kept them all in a cigar box. I know, I saw them. I tried to get one but she wouldn't part with any.
An elderly man I knew had a small hoard of 1909-S-VDB's. He told me his father saved them and he just carried on the collecting tradition. He had many of them and was leaving them to his children who he said would sell them off slowly. Sadly, he could not get one of his children interested in collecting.
Another friend of mine collects only silver dollars and US gold. One day he showed me several high grade mint state 1921 Peace dollars with high-point detail. It isn't every day you get an opportunity to compare coins like these in front of you side by side. 1921 was the year his mom was born. Personally, I have a nice collection of uncirculated Isabella quarters. If I am at a show and see an eye catching toned Isabella that strikes me and for the right price I will add it to my collection. I happen to like the coin's features, the way it got promoted and the history that surrounds the 1893 World's Fair as I said earlier. I always liked series collecting but over the years I became burned out on this method of collecting and this new type of collecting has given me a lot of enjoyment.
It is a wonderful opportunity to compare features, varities, strikes, patinas, etc. when you have several examples of the same coin all out in front of you.
"location, location, location...eye appeal, eye appeal, eye appeal" My website
<< <i> I collect one coin, one date and mintmark I like, obtain several examples over time and move on to another. I like comparing them. That's just how I collect coins. I copied a few lines from my website below to illustrate my point: >>
Well, I guess I can't argue with that. If someone is really enamored with a certain date/type and wants to collect a ton of those, then "to each his own." My only problem is with the motivation -- if it's being greedy, "Look at how many I have, and the other guys have nothing" -- then that's not good in any way.
"Men who had never shown any ability to make or increase fortunes for themselves abounded in brilliant plans for creating and increasing wealth for the country at large." Fiat Money Inflation in France, Andrew Dickson White (1912)
I must say that I am surprised by the number of responses to this and equally impressed by the quality and variety, as well.
As I indicated in the OP, the only motivation for acquiring a duplicate of this coin is that I enjoy owning #1 so much. If I do acquire #2, perhaps once I have it in my possesion, I will realize that 1 + 1 = 1 or 1.5 (not 2 or 3 or 4) and opt to sell it. There are fewer than eighty of these, and they are in perpetual demand. One cannot compare these to key dates like 09-S VDBs or 55 DDO's, as these are always available on the market.
The motivation for holding two is not to keep someone else from having one; that would be an unfortunate consequence. If I knew a friend needed it, I would bow out (give me a break about it being illegal to not bid on a coin! ). Friendship and camaraderie are at the cornerstone of my collecting interest. I am most concerned, in this situation, about the "friend" whom I have not yet met who might be discouraged because he cannot find one. I will have to weigh this when I decide whether to pursue the coin.
I would not be interested in bidding on it to "protect the value" of the example that I own. Interesting notion.
My first impression was that it is piggish, but you know what, you don't know who would buy the other or how much they would enjoy it etc. Why not own both, and maybe you'll someday meet another collector would enjoy it as much as you, and that you'd be very happy to sell it to. (I sort of wish I could buy all the highest graded Lincolns, send the overgraded ones back to pcgs, and give out the correctly graded ones to the collectors who I know would truly enjoy them!)
I am most concerned, in this situation, about the "friend" whom I have not yet met who might be discouraged because he cannot find one. My search for the world's friendliest coin collector is finally over! I can now retire in peace.
Todd L. Imhof Partner / Executive VP Heritage Auctions
I know a couple of collectors who "absolutely must" have two of each item in their collection. They "need" this so they can put them in their albums side-by-side and see both sides of the coin at the same time.
They don't collect the really rare stuff, but I'm still amazed at how much those guys are prepared to pay, basically for aesthetic reasons.
Waste no more time arguing what a good man should be. Be one. Roman emperor Marcus Aurelius, "Meditations"
Solution to your guilt.......... The opportunity of buying the coin is told to your friend.....You wait a sufficient amount of time to see if the coin is purchased by you friend............ Then you are guilt free to make the purchase yourself if it is available...................................
RYK I would buy what I wanted and could afford--I don't feel that you have any responsibility to lay back so that someone else can obtain a coin that you would like to have--just my opinion. That's how all the great collections were built.
I have decided not to bid on the coin for multiple reasons. Several have asked me to identify it, so here is the link.
RYK I would buy what I wanted and could afford--I don't feel that you have any responsibility to lay back so that someone else can obtain a coin that you would like to have--just my opinion. That's how all the great collections were built.
Perhaps, that is so, but I view coin collecting as more of a team sport (like football ) than an individual one.
RYK ...It seems you definintely have the opportunity to purchase a dupliccate coin if you wish but you have chosen to change your mind.I suspect maybe the condition of the coin is the same .If that is so then an upgrade would be a wiser choice in your favor........
I would re-consider, this looks to be a very nice example and you can never have too many. I agree with MrEureka that at a later date you would have considerable trading ability to get pieces otherwise not attainable.
If you will appreciate it more, and enjoy it more, and protect it from being stripped and dipped and cleaned and ruined, then not only is it not piggish to have two, it is your moral and ethical obligation.
If there are sixteen people that collect a certain coin and only fourteen examples, then your owning one of them knocks two people out of the running. Buy it if you want it.
"Im not young enough to know everything." Oscar Wilde
Collect for the love of the hobby, the beauty of the coins, and enjoy the ride.
Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence on society.
I would re-consider, this looks to be a very nice example and you can never have too many.
I learned a lesson in puttied gold this weekend...and this coin was one of the chief offenders. Despite that, this coin sold for a ridculous $27,000+, as if it were an AU-55. For those of you bidding on gold at home, be careful. Though the photo looks nice, in hand the coin was heavily puttied. Probably a good topic for future discussion in its own thread.
RYK, glad to hear you didn't go after that '61-D. So much of the better date & mint-marked gold has been messed with these days... only makes the search more challenging.
The '61-D $5 is quite a rare piece w/such a romantic history behind it... I don't blame you for wanting a 2nd, or even a 3rd. Same reason why I couldn't resist getting my 2nd 38-C and 39-C $5's over the past year.
What should be done with a coin like this? Can the putty be removed with making matters worse?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
If the putty job is THAT obvious isn't it a little bit disingenous of Heritage not to mention it OR does the fact that PCGS slabbed it let them off the hook?
What should be done with a coin like this? Can the putty be removed with making matters worse?
The putty can be dipped off, but who knows what lies beneath?
If the putty job is THAT obvious isn't it a little bit disingenous of Heritage not to mention it OR does the fact that PCGS slabbed it let them off the hook?
The putty is obvious once you know what to look for. There are many puttied gold coins in PCGS holders (I was shown an example of a coin in my own collection ), and many puttied gold coins in the Heritage sale. It's a big problem. Even some very experienced people get fooled regularly. I learned a lot about puttied gold coins at the recent Atlanta show.
Comments
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Some would buy more than one and go around bragging about it and how they are screwing smoe other collector out of it; that kind of person I would consider more that just piggish; to me he is a first class arsehole. If you want it just buy it and keep that to yourself.
<< <i>If someone has two, it means that someone who wants one will not get one. >>
So what? If 10 people want one and only 2 are available it means 8 people aint gonna get one; you can't please em all.
If the particular coin is that desirable, and one comes on the market rarely, by all means you should buy it if you desire. Since when was hoarding key dates a bad thing?
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
If you're looking at it as a collector who wants 2 (or more) of the same coin in his collection: I think you should aim to have the single best/nicest example you can afford of each coin in your set. Not two or four or six examples of each coin. Being greedy just ruins the market for other collectors. Some other collector will probably get more happiness from having that "single" coin than you will get from owning the "second" piece. So let the other guy have it, and hope that karma returns the favor when you're looking for something.
If you're looking at it as piece for trade: If you're looking to get the piece so you can trade it for something else you really want, then I don't see a problem with buying it. Your plan is not to hog two pieces, just to give yourself a better shot of getting another piece you don't have, which seems fine.
If you're looking at it as an investment: Then buy what you want, even buy the top 100 examples if you think it makes financial sense.
I'm impressed that you approach this with thought of the other collectors out there. Unfortunately most people on this thread don't seem to care about that.
<< <i> If you're looking at it as a collector who wants 2 (or more) of the same coin in his collection: I think you should aim to have the single best/nicest example
you can afford of each coin in your set. Not two or four or six examples of each coin. Being greedy just ruins the market for other collectors. Some other collector
will probably get more happiness from having that "single" coin than you will get from owning the "second" piece. So let the other guy have it, and hope that
karma returns the favor when you're looking for something.
<< <i>
==> Well let's look at it this way. You are a series collector. Some people are Type collectors. I am neither.
I collect one coin, one date and mintmark I like, obtain several examples over time and move on to another. I like comparing them.
That's just how I collect coins. I copied a few lines from my website below to illustrate my point:
A friend of mine wound down his series collecting of copper, some years ago. I would see him at the coin shows
all the time. He then started collecting only one coin - chain cents. He had many of them. It was something to see.
He knew his chain cents.
My mom's supervisor at a Department store in the 1950's collected only 1932 quarters P,D and S from the
store's cash registers. She had been doing this for years and had a bunch of them and kept them all in a
cigar box. I know, I saw them. I tried to get one but she wouldn't part with any.
An elderly man I knew had a small hoard of 1909-S-VDB's. He told me his father saved them and he just carried
on the collecting tradition. He had many of them and was leaving them to his children who he said would sell them
off slowly. Sadly, he could not get one of his children interested in collecting.
Another friend of mine collects only silver dollars and US gold. One day he showed me several high grade mint
state 1921 Peace dollars with high-point detail. It isn't every day you get an opportunity to compare coins like
these in front of you side by side. 1921 was the year his mom was born. Personally, I have a nice collection of
uncirculated Isabella quarters. If I am at a show and see an eye catching toned Isabella that strikes me and
for the right price I will add it to my collection. I happen to like the coin's features, the way it got promoted
and the history that surrounds the 1893 World's Fair as I said earlier. I always liked series collecting but over
the years I became burned out on this method of collecting and this new type of collecting has given me a lot of enjoyment.
It is a wonderful opportunity to compare features, varities, strikes, patinas, etc. when you have several examples of the same coin all out in front of you.
My website
Should a majority shareholder feel guilty about taking an already public company and turning it private?
<< <i> I collect one coin, one date and mintmark I like, obtain several examples over time and move on to another. I like comparing them.
That's just how I collect coins. I copied a few lines from my website below to illustrate my point: >>
Well, I guess I can't argue with that. If someone is really enamored with a certain date/type and wants to collect a ton of those, then "to each his own." My only problem is with the motivation -- if it's being greedy, "Look at how many I have, and the other guys have nothing" -- then that's not good in any way.
As I indicated in the OP, the only motivation for acquiring a duplicate of this coin is that I enjoy owning #1 so much. If I do acquire #2, perhaps once I have it in my possesion, I will realize that 1 + 1 = 1 or 1.5 (not 2 or 3 or 4) and opt to sell it. There are fewer than eighty of these, and they are in perpetual demand. One cannot compare these to key dates like 09-S VDBs or 55 DDO's, as these are always available on the market.
The motivation for holding two is not to keep someone else from having one; that would be an unfortunate consequence. If I knew a friend needed it, I would bow out (give me a break about it being illegal to not bid on a coin!
I would not be interested in bidding on it to "protect the value" of the example that I own. Interesting notion.
<< <i>Not too many collectors are like you RYK that will back off a coin if you know that a friend needs it
Btw, what coin?
TBA >>
Yeah, when?
My search for the world's friendliest coin collector is finally over! I can now retire in peace.
Partner / Executive VP
Heritage Auctions
CG
They don't collect the really rare stuff, but I'm still amazed at how much those guys are prepared to pay, basically for aesthetic reasons.
Roman emperor Marcus Aurelius, "Meditations"
Apparently I have been awarded one DPOTD.
<< <i>if you like it, buy it.
I once owned something silly like 4 or 5 1955/1955 lincs at one time. >>
buy the holder,not the coin!
Oink!
What is now proved was once only imagined. - William Blake
Hardly unfortunate if the duplicate gives you leverage in acquiring (via trade) other coins that you do not yet own!
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
The opportunity of buying the coin is told to your friend.....You wait a sufficient amount of time to see if the coin is purchased by you friend............
Then you are guilt free to make the purchase yourself if it is available...................................
RYK I would buy what I wanted and could afford--I don't feel that you have any responsibility to lay back so that someone else can obtain a coin that you would like to have--just my opinion. That's how all the great collections were built.
Perhaps, that is so, but I view coin collecting as more of a team sport (like football
How do you like them apples?
My website
Oscar Wilde
Collect for the love of the hobby, the beauty of the coins, and enjoy the ride.
Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence on society.
I learned a lesson in puttied gold this weekend...and this coin was one of the chief offenders. Despite that, this coin sold for a ridculous $27,000+, as if it were an AU-55. For those of you bidding on gold at home, be careful. Though the photo looks nice, in hand the coin was heavily puttied. Probably a good topic for future discussion in its own thread.
The '61-D $5 is quite a rare piece w/such a romantic history behind it... I don't blame you for wanting a 2nd, or even a 3rd. Same reason why I couldn't resist getting my 2nd 38-C and 39-C $5's over the past year.
cheers & good luck w/the hunt,
'dude
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i> Though the photo looks nice, in hand the coin was heavily puttied. Probably a good topic for future discussion in its own thread. >>
The putty can be dipped off, but who knows what lies beneath?
If the putty job is THAT obvious isn't it a little bit disingenous of Heritage not to mention it OR does the fact that PCGS slabbed it let them off the hook?
The putty is obvious once you know what to look for. There are many puttied gold coins in PCGS holders (I was shown an example of a coin in my own collection
Buying top quality Seated Dimes in Gem BU and Proof.
Buying great coins - monster eye appeal only.
<< <i>Is it piggish to own more than one example of a rare coin? >>
Not if you appreciate the coin for what it is.