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Grade Opinions Please - 1798 Half Eagle

CharlotteDudeCharlotteDude Posts: 3,065 ✭✭✭✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum
Folks,
I recently picked up this puppy and am considering resubmission.... it currently resides in an older PCGS green tag holder (one from the early 90's).
Give the grade a shot & your opinions will help determine whether a resubmission is worth the effort...

thanks,

the dude

imageimage
Got Crust....y gold?

Comments

  • CharlotteDudeCharlotteDude Posts: 3,065 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Trying to download the pics again....

    imageimage

    thanks,

    the 'dude
    Got Crust....y gold?
  • tjkilliantjkillian Posts: 5,578 ✭✭✭
    These are the kinds of coins that will not need a grade to be desirable. Unless they are in a Fine-15 holder, I would just leave them as is. I would grade them in the VF category. Very nice, original coins.

    Tom
    Tom

  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,351 ✭✭✭✭✭
    What grade did they give it? Not every coin in an old holder is an upgrade candidate.


    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • RYKRYK Posts: 35,797 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Fabulous coin! Best newp I have seen here in ages. Congrats!
    My Box of 20: https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/box-20/ryks-gold-box-20/17132
  • CharlotteDudeCharlotteDude Posts: 3,065 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It's in a VF-30 holder. I've been doing some digging around previous Heritage, ANR & BaM auction records/photos... seen some PCGS/NGC XF's that look worse. I'm really digging its natural coloration... so many of the early gold pieces have been dipped, stripped or "conserved". I'm not looking to turn around and sell it... a coin like this is a keeper for sure. I may just keep it in the VF holder.
    Got Crust....y gold?
  • CharlotteDudeCharlotteDude Posts: 3,065 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Thanks RYK... I believe I lucked out when I stumbled onto it AND the guy happened to still have it.

    You coming to Baltimore for the big show??
    Got Crust....y gold?
  • RYKRYK Posts: 35,797 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I was going to guess XF-40/45.

    No B'more for RYK. image

    My Box of 20: https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/box-20/ryks-gold-box-20/17132
  • coinlieutenantcoinlieutenant Posts: 9,315 ✭✭✭✭✭
    That coin is NOT VF....

    If you are selling it, crack it...if you are keeping it...dont crack it...until you go to sell it...at which time, sell it to me! image

    I agree with Robert, best Newp I have seen in a while.

    J

    siliconvalleycoins.com

  • RYKRYK Posts: 35,797 ✭✭✭✭✭
    you are selling it, crack it...if you are keeping it...dont crack it...until you go to sell it...at which time, sell it to me!

    I agree, with everything CL says, including sell it to ME!

    Any chance the seller had any more of these?
    My Box of 20: https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/box-20/ryks-gold-box-20/17132
  • 09sVDB09sVDB Posts: 2,420 ✭✭✭
    My first thought was XF40
  • BaleyBaley Posts: 22,663 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I LOVE image that coin as a VF30.

    Looks to be worth EF money all day long and twice on Sunday image

    great coin, please add my name to your long and growing "interest list" in case it becomes for sale image

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,351 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I've seen XF45's in top tier slabs that look similar to this. No way that's a VF30.



    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • coinlieutenantcoinlieutenant Posts: 9,315 ✭✭✭✭✭
    To let you know how much I like the coin...as long as you dont hold me to it since I dont have a greysheet in front of me and I dont know the spread, I would think that I am willing to give you AU greysheet money for the coin right now...image

    The coin is a shot AU50...lock 45.

    J

    siliconvalleycoins.com

  • RYKRYK Posts: 35,797 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Back off, Baley, I got here first. imageimage

    Somehow I doubt that coin is going to see the light of day for a very long time. image
    My Box of 20: https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/box-20/ryks-gold-box-20/17132
  • RYKRYK Posts: 35,797 ✭✭✭✭✭
    September 05 Greysheet for AU-50 (common variety is $7500). I will see CL's bid and raise $500. image

    Edit: Cool cud-like thingy on the reverse.
    My Box of 20: https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/box-20/ryks-gold-box-20/17132
  • BaleyBaley Posts: 22,663 ✭✭✭✭✭
    LoL, buncha sharks circling, aren't we image

    the highest compliment you can pay any collector: Great coin! Is it for Sale?

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

  • DennisHDennisH Posts: 13,996 ✭✭✭✭✭
    My first reaction was VF30... honest!
    When in doubt, don't.
  • RYKRYK Posts: 35,797 ✭✭✭✭✭
    the highest compliment you can pay any collector: Great coin! Is it for Sale?

    So true.

    18th century gold is out of the reach of most of us. There are only two reasonably affordable dates: this and the 1799 eagle. The latter has gone up so much in price in the last couple of years, leaving only this issue.
    My Box of 20: https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/box-20/ryks-gold-box-20/17132
  • CharlotteDudeCharlotteDude Posts: 3,065 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Good googlie booglie! I'm not looking to sell it... I actually used some of the proceeds from some land my father and I sold that was willed by my grandmother... sounds hookie, I know, but I wanted to pick up something REALLY nice for the money to sock away... I consider it a gift from grandma. And that's the truth!

    I actually think that w/the variety it is Breen 6428, B 2-D Miller 27 variety, which typically comes weakly struck on the central obverse and reverse (especially eagle's head/neck and EPU ribbon, it would grade at least EF-40 or even 45 on a good day.

    I simply fell for its originality and lack of major/distracting marks...

    thanks to all your opinions!

    dude
    Got Crust....y gold?
  • coinlieutenantcoinlieutenant Posts: 9,315 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The originality is what I fell for too...

    J

    siliconvalleycoins.com

  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,162 ✭✭✭✭✭
    My first impression was a weakly struck AU50
    Early Dollar Set
  • RYKRYK Posts: 35,797 ✭✭✭✭✭
    C'Dude,

    I just bought this book:

    image

    I will give you the attribution when the book arrives. image
    My Box of 20: https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/box-20/ryks-gold-box-20/17132
  • bhartman35bhartman35 Posts: 1,398
    I agree with others here. It looks XF to me. Definitely worth cracking if you sell it, but only if you sell it.
    If you haven't noticed, I'm single and miserable and I've got four albums of bitching about it that I would offer as proof.

    -- Adam Duritz, of Counting Crows


    My Ebay Auctions
    image
  • DaveGDaveG Posts: 3,535 ✭
    Well, since I already have the Miller book, I'd agree that the coin is a Miller-27 (only variety with die breaks on the reverse).

    Although I'd have to see the coin in person, I'd say that it's a stricly graded VF-30 (or a weakly struck XF-40).

    I'd keep it in the slab it's in now and, should you decide to sell it, you should probably sell it to a specialist or else consign it to an auction, where it can bring full price, despite the grade on the slab.

    Nice Coin!

    Check out the Southern Gold Society

  • CharlotteDudeCharlotteDude Posts: 3,065 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I will give you the attribution when the (Miller) book arrives.

    Roger that RYK... I take it you're considering dabbling a bit more in the early stuff then?

    Dave G... If you'll be in Baltimore for the show, you may be able to see it in person... image I'd welcome your opinion...

    not to mention maybe paying some dues for inclusion into that Southern Gold Society thing you have going.
    Got Crust....y gold?
  • RYKRYK Posts: 35,797 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Roger that RYK... I take it you're considering dabbling a bit more in the early stuff then?

    Not at this point, but I would certainly like to learn more.
    My Box of 20: https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/box-20/ryks-gold-box-20/17132
  • SamByrdSamByrd Posts: 3,131 ✭✭✭✭
    I would say that coin is au50 just for grade sake, I would bet if you sent that coin to pcgs out of the original holder it would come back at least xf40 perhaps as high as au 50 they are a bit easier on early coins then they used to be, keep us posted if you resubmit it.
  • CharlotteDudeCharlotteDude Posts: 3,065 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Roger that... will do!

    thanks again for all the input.

    'dude


    I would say that coin is au50 just for grade sake, I would bet if you sent that coin to pcgs out of the original holder it would come back at least xf40 perhaps as high as au 50 they are a bit easier on early coins then they used to be, keep us posted if you resubmit it.
    Got Crust....y gold?
  • DaveGDaveG Posts: 3,535 ✭
    'Dude,

    I'll be in Baltimore on Friday; I'd love to see the coin in person!

    By all means, please join the SGS - just send your dues to David Crenshaw (address on the website). I'm just a member of the club, after all.

    Check out the Southern Gold Society

  • relayerrelayer Posts: 10,570 ✭

    Excellent
    image
    My posts viewed image times
    since 8/1/6
  • JRoccoJRocco Posts: 14,277 ✭✭✭✭✭
    What a beautiful coin. I don't think you need to reholder this little lady. Looks like you could sell her right here without PCGS's little stamp of approval. Bet there are a few more here that would give you a good offer for this coin.
    I know I know---get in line..............
    Some coins are just plain "Interesting"
  • CharlotteDudeCharlotteDude Posts: 3,065 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Dude, I'll be in Baltimore on Friday; I'd love to see the coin in person!

    Sounds good, Dave. If you want, send me a PM and I'll give you my cell phone # as I'll be there Friday also. Your opinion would be much appreciated.


    the 'dude
    Got Crust....y gold?
  • topstuftopstuf Posts: 14,803 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'd say 40.
  • topstuftopstuf Posts: 14,803 ✭✭✭✭✭
    image

    ????????????? Who ever knows?
  • topstuftopstuf Posts: 14,803 ✭✭✭✭✭
    image
  • topstuftopstuf Posts: 14,803 ✭✭✭✭✭
    image
  • LanLordLanLord Posts: 11,718 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Needless to say, all these pictures have gone into my virtual gold collection.

    Keep them coming!
  • CharlotteDudeCharlotteDude Posts: 3,065 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Folks,
    again, I want to thank you for your opinions on the 1798 Half Eagle... I think I'm going to resubmit, if nothing else, than to get her into a holder w/a much more deserving grade... not to mention the old PCGS holder is pretty banged up.

    Looking at the recent offering of early gold in upcoming Baltimore auctions, there's a 1799 in a PCGS XF-40 holder w/what the cataloguer at ANR described as being net-graded by PCGS due to an old light cleaning... my 1798 Halfie is clearly a superior coin surface wise and a bit better on detail, so I think I'm pretty safe securing at least an XF-40.

    I'll put 'em together for comparison....

    enjoy,

    'dude

    imageimageimageimage
    Got Crust....y gold?
  • RYKRYK Posts: 35,797 ✭✭✭✭✭
    'Dude,

    Unless you are going to sell, I strongly urge you to leave the coin as is. You have nothing to gain, and much to lose.

    Robert

    P.S. If the grading process leaves you unsatisfied, my offer below (above, for some) still stands. image

    P.P.S. Thanks for pointing out the 1799 $5. If I end up buying it, ignore my previous offer. image
    My Box of 20: https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/box-20/ryks-gold-box-20/17132
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 34,223 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I would grade the coin EF-40 from the picture. If there is some luster in the protected areas (e.g. between the letters) I'd give it an EF-45. If there is a lot of luster between the letters, it could hit AU-50.

    This is an example of where one needs to see the coin to peg that grade. The coin has a rub, but much of the weakness in the certers is due to strike. When strike is problem, grading must include a stronger review of the surfaces. It takes experience to learn to grade by surfaces. You can't learn that overnight.

    Here's a similar example of strike vs. wear from my collection. I bought this 1796 dime as a "VF" back in the 1980s. When I had slabbed by PCGS, they graded it AU-50. The reason for the AU-50 is that large amount of mint luster that appears in the protected areas. The sharpness grade looks like a VF-35, but the lack of detail is due to the strike.

    image
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 34,223 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Here is my 1806 half eagle, which is in my type set. It is in a PCGS AU-58 holder.

    I bought this one in the 1980 "Auction '80" sale from the Superior section of that pre ANA auction. Back then it was graded AU-50, but Superior (under different managment than today) rutinely undergraded most of the coins they offered at auction.

    image
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • CharlotteDudeCharlotteDude Posts: 3,065 ✭✭✭✭✭
    'Dude, Unless you are going to sell, I strongly urge you to leave the coin as is. You have nothing to gain, and much to lose.

    TextP.S. If the grading process leaves you unsatisfied, my offer below (above, for some) still stands.

    TextP.P.S. Thanks for pointing out the 1799 $5. If I end up buying it, ignore my previous offer.



    Dang RYK... you take the fun out of it! image

    The 1799 in the ANR auction is a $10/Eagle, not a $5.

    cheers,

    'dude

    Got Crust....y gold?
  • RYKRYK Posts: 35,797 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Since we are doing show-and-tell, below is my 1803 $5 in an NGC AU-55 holder. It is an extremely original and eye-appealing piece (actually it was subsequently featured in one of Doug Winter's raregoldcoins.com articles), with the luster muted by the thick, ruddy patination.

    image
    My Box of 20: https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/box-20/ryks-gold-box-20/17132
  • CharlotteDudeCharlotteDude Posts: 3,065 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I've seen that coin... several time... three rivers collection website... it rocks!

    a smashing coin, if I may say so myself.... !

    I bought an 1802/1 in NGC-55 from DW/Pinnacle about 1 1/2 yrs ago... I'll have to load it up one these evenings and show that one...

    'dude
    Got Crust....y gold?
  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 24,304 ✭✭✭✭✭
    53+
    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • stevel48stevel48 Posts: 149 ✭
    you lucky dog. i love it. the 5$ or 10$ denomination is on my list to own some day VF20
    <a href=http://dvrmaskbuildersclub.multiply.com/photos/album/1/admin#231>Untitled Photo</a>
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 34,223 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>The originality is what I fell for too...

    J >>



    I like the originality of the coin that started this thread too. FAR, FAR too many early gold coins have been "enhanced" to make them bright and shiny for the well-healed, but less educated collectors.

    I have bought a piece of early gold (pre 1834) in a couple of years. One of the reasons is that a lot of the coins I've seen have been worked on and then overgraded by the TPGs.

    My last early gold purchase required me to pay the price of the next grade up (the coin is a PCGS AU-55; I had to pay MS-60 money for it.). I'm willing to do that regularly if the I like the coin. BUT ONLY if I like the coin.
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?

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