Does a Rattler Holder justify these Kind of Bids?

FullStrike

1925 Peace MS65 in Rattler Holder


I marked this for a snipe earlier this week but it's gone too high for me now.

Anyone think this is worth $200.00 + ?

HTubbs

No

Craton

PCGS price guide - Ahem..... MS65 and 66 listed at 170 and 675
Someone is crossing their fingers for an upgrade.

Barberman55

No........I see some obvious marks on the cheek and that's on a bad image.

Steve27

Certainly doesn't appear to be better than a 65.

fcloud

a case of buy the holder

tedssupply

I have been watching peace dollars for the last 3 months now. And the trend is that most nice coins are selling over book on EBay.

majorbigtime

I just bought a Morgan in a rattler today (Ebay Item number: 8388660065)--did I overpay?

TorinoCobra71

<< <i>PCGS price guide - Ahem..... MS65 and 66 listed at 170 and 675
Someone is crossing their fingers for an upgrade. >>



BINGO! Thats exacltly what I was thinking. Time for a "Crackout!"

TorinoCobra71

DMWJR

Buy the coin, not the rattle.

BigE

Here is a real piece---------------BigE

billboat

No way!

roadrunner

Harbor Coin counts on ebayers to jump on the rattler/OGH band wagon by claiming they are upgrade coins. In many cases they are low end for the grade or just average. They must scout these out at shows because they constantly show up on their site.
Even the raw coins they sell are always PQ+ shot coins. Some of the puffery they use is far beyond reasonable.

They also use "BrianTimmons" as an alter ego to try and pass their stuff off as "collector coins that have been put away for years."

The odds of getting a PQ upgrade coin are not in one's favor. Those would be the ones that Harbor sends back for regrading on their own. The also rans get tossed on to ebay. If anyone has ever gotten an upgrade coin from HC please let us know. At least there would be one data point. There are times to pay premiums for old holders on ebay that you can feel confident of having an upgrade chance...but not those offered by Harbor Coin.

roadrunner

MadMarty

I know the guys from Harbor coin, Brian and Kevin are really great people to deal with. Nowhere in the auction do they scream thats it is a upgrade coin. If buyers want to take the chance on the upgrade more power to them. I do agree their pictures suck, but they don't try to hide anything either. Give the guys a break!!

coinkat

I didn't look at the bids because I am not interested in bidding. If the lustre is as good as it could be, I think bidders are thinking upgrade for a reason.

SamByrd

Its a nice coin a good ms65, its above what I think its worth but with market gradeflation mayby it has a shoot at a ms66 I dont think so but who knows. If the pictures were better it may of gone higher.

roadrunner

Here's the head line from the ad, so you judge if there is any hype.
They also claim to grade conservatively. Having been stuck with a pos "ogh" coin from them, I know otherwise. On that particular coin I sold it for a 45% immediate loss. I don't keep pieces of crap. Once burned, once learned. Their photos suck for a reason: bad photography skills or ????

1925 PCGS MS65++ PEACE DOLLAR *1ST GEN OGH*66-67

nope.........no hype seen here.

And for what it's worth, I have local dealers that I like as well. Yet I know as part of doing business they buy at 5-30% of value from the public quite routinely...and sell cleaned schlock as well. But I can deal with that since I am physically there and can weed out the crap.

roadrunner

MadMarty

I'm sorry to hear you got cooked. There are people who buy rattlers for a reason, so why shouldn't a seller point that fact out. Why did you buy a rattler? Were you buying it because you liked the coin, or were you buying it for an upgrade?

roadrunner

I buy rattler's and old holders knowing that they should be nice or decent for the grade...the upgrade is a bennie if it comes about.
But when you pay a near double premium because the words state something is high end, PQ+, blazing flashy luster, 95% red, etc. And you get a turd that is almost brown (20% red), dull luster, and light spots with a so-so strike for the holder it is in....well that can be somewhat annoying don't ya think? The coin was barely above
brown, let alone a nice RB. And the seller hides behind the poor photo, and the no return priv. Yes, you take your chances, but upgrade shot coin with 95% blazing red is quite different than 20% red with dull luster. Such sellers need to be called out on it. Had I got a decent RB coin for the grade (even less than described) it would have been worth nearly the price paid. Decent it wasn't.
95%, 75%, or even 50% red it wasn't. Without seeing the coin first, I was buying the description (which I liked), the photo showed nothing contrary to it being a nice coin, and the integrity of the dealer as a B&M shop with a decent FB rating.

It's one thing to put up a photo and let the buyer's make a decision based on that. But when you toss in adjectives that are miles off, the seller is in fact stating a guarantee of sorts. No different than calling a PL coin DMPL or a SLQ without 3 leaves and an ear hole as FH. Either it is or it isn't. There's more to the story as well but I doubt HC would want it to show up here. Coin LT has also stated problems with HC as well. This is not an isolated instance.


roadrunner

pontiacinf

<< <i>Here is a real piece---------------BigE >>



blast white? ~#XXXX>

pass that over here, I need to expand my mind, if only to believe that statement

KevinMcMillen

I know Harbor coins they get good marks with me they buy & sell like they know what they are doing.

As far as a coin in any holder goes its like this just because it says something on a label doesn't mean that it could say something else if regraded.

Old rattler holders are not a sure thing for upgrades in fact I was just offered a group of old rattlers Standing quarters ms 63 - 66 FH all looked maxed out

some had in my opion a chance of being no graded if sent back in or graded lower. I passed but another buyer purchased the lot at a much reduced price

after I passed. Buy the coin if you like it not the holder.

Barry

It's interesting how "good guys" in person can become scumbags behind the anonymity and impersonal nature of Ebay. This isn't the first case and won't be the last. IN this case, I agree with roadrunner 100%. The hype is staring you in the face, Marty.

roadrunner

Barry, I understand the hype. It is part of ebay. But when you see a dealer with a store, with a prominence in the market, very few neg feed backs (on paper), you give them the benefit of the doubt. Out of 70 or so transactions on ebay and about 100 coins that was only the second one where I got smoked. This one, and the fingerprinted Lincoln that conveniently did not show up in the photo. Yes, I bid strong on Harbor's coin but so did someone else. Had it been just a real nice 63RB I'd have been ok with it. You take your chances. But not a swilly lower end coin when it is being hyped as 64++ 95% red. The truth should be somewhere in between, but not at the very bottom.

Based on those 2 misses (not huge monetary hits) my level of "puffery acceptance" is now much much higher. Just had a 3rd miss this past month where the seller reneged on a full return priv. on a raw coin (cracked out supposedly-and the only raw coin I've ever won) after I specifically asked about one....and he agreed. He too had exc. feedback, seemed to be an upstanding collector type. Replied to him within 24 hours that it would be coming back. Seller would not reply back after multiple attempts to reach him via ebay/aol/etc. There was no negotiaton or any meeting on the minds since he would not reply. I'd have probably offered him a restock fee just to be done with it. After 2 weeks I left Neg FB. and ate the coin. Again, not a huge monetary loss - a few hundred. Then he miraculously appeared in time to leave neg FB for me claiming I had exceeded the time frame of the return priv. Of course seller was still selling items on ebay during this entire affair. Still have yet to get a reply from him via email/letter/phone in over a month. And this seller is also known on these boards and to the collecting community. This pretty much leaves me sour on ebay for a while. I'll deal with major dealers and people I know but it's just not worth the aggravation any more to try new sellers unless they come with impeccable references. I'm still far ahead on my purchases but time to rethink the whole thing while I am in front. There are not enough reasonable and good deals these days to justify the added risks. And this is not unexpected as the price of coins to continues to rise and we climb the "wall of worry" of a rising coin market. It brings out more people to compete against, more people looking to take advantage of the move, and inherently more risk the longer you hang around. Big difference in ebay one year ago or two years ago vs today, at least imo.

roadrunner

09sVDB

Very surprising. I had the same coin listed last week but in an MS64 old rattler with a starting bid of $99 and no takers. I'm going to resubmit the coin because I think it's an upgrade.

roadrunner

Yes, but did you hype the coin? How about including "rattler" in your title? If you do want the most for such a coin you need to expand your audience as best you can. Understand the larger dealers with huge feedback ratings often pull in much better prices because buyers are not as fearfull of being taken. I always notice that Duvall gold (an excellent seller - possibly the best on ebay) always brings in more money for their coins because their reputation is that good. So if they post a rattler or some other nice looking coin, they get top top dollar for it.

roadrunner

morganbarber

Not only first generation holders offer profitable upgrade potential. L@@K!

roadrunner

Well at least army7073x didn't hype the coin in the title. And suggested that a mottled MS62 peace dollar should regrade MS66
will not catch anyone off guard......as the $11 bid attests to.

At 98.5% feedback with over 1000 fb's, army has enough baggage as a seller to be very aware. Lots of non-paying bids, non-receipts, fraud tossed around, etc. Lots of flags on that dude.

roadrunner