I am pleased with the 74 set price, but not entirely surprised. There are a lot of people looking for high quality complete sets at an affordable price. There are also a few low pop 9s (including a couple of Washington variations and Carlton Fisk) in that set that make it very attractive.
The 72 set continues to surprise me. Notwithstanding Mike's comments, there is no way to duplicate that set for $23,000. I believe collectors do care about the quality of their 9s. There are also about 10 guys actively trying to complete the 72 set in PSA 9 or better and they all need the same 30-40 cards. Anytime one comes up it is likely to be a $200 card.
I think that the Schaal remains tough and that the Kendall is tougher. The Houk is very tough in PSA 9 (like the one in my set), but not so crazy tough in 8. The Expos Team card may be the toughest right now. I think a PSA 8 could easily go for $300+ with the number of people chasing it. It was the last card I needed for my set and I had to make one hell of a deal to get it.
The set also has a PSA 10 Rollie Fingers, which is a 1/2. Even Frank's great set does not include that card.
View my inventory of PSA Graded Cards at My Ebay Store
David> I guess everyone has their own experiences with what they consider "tough" cards - and that will vary from person to person, as well as be framed by the time they worked on their set. After all, the population numbers are fluid and constantly change.
When I built the set the second time, from the beginning I took the approach to be extremely aggressive on the cards that were the toughest and find the easy stuff as I found it. After building the set once already, I had a really good feel on which were the toughest cards both in terms of population and obtainability. At the time, FB and EJ had finished their set, and other collectors were treating cards like Henderson, Expos RC, Reds RC, and others as just any other card because they had not yet learned the nuances of the set. As a result, I was able to win some of these on eBay for quite a bit less than I expected. For example, there was an Expos Team where I had a $200 snipe, and ended up winning it for like $35 or something. I was also able to find raw examples of the toughest cards and submit them myself. In many cases, multiple examples. At one time, I had three Expos Teams in PSA8, which accounted for half the PSA8 population at the time. At one time, FB owned 2/3 of the PSA8 Hendersons. I'm not sure we'll see something like that again.
Based on my experience selling my second set, I would probably agree that one couldn't duplicate your set for $23k - but - the catch is that there is only a finite number of people willing and able to swallow that amount all at one time.
I'll definitely be curious to see where the sets end up. Good luck!!!
<< <i> The 72 set continues to surprise me. Notwithstanding Mike's comments, there is no way to duplicate that set for $23,000. I believe collectors do care about the quality of their 9s. There are also about 10 guys actively trying to complete the 72 set in PSA 9 or better and they all need the same 30-40 cards. Anytime one comes up it is likely to be a $200 card. >>
Unless populations continue to rise. There is another great 1972 set in Mastro's catalog, which, despite not being wholly graded - is very top-of-the-line across the board. Not to mention that there is still a plethora of unopened wax and vending for a number of 1972 series, which likely will only inflate populations further.
Obviously, best of luck to you in your consignment. I would personally believe that, in a year or two, it might not be so hard to duplicate a set like this for $30k or less [e.g. the price with the fees added]. Just looking at the 1972 Topps Registry, and there are 18,621 1972 Topps baseball cards registered. That's a whole lot of product on the Registry - not to mention the many collectors out there *not* on the Registry. All you need is a couple of sales, or an increase in population without a concurrent increase in demand, and I can see someone putting together an awfully nice set in a couple of years for $30k or significantly less.
Marc
I am actively buying MIKE SCHMIDT gem mint baseball cards. Also looking for any 19th century cabinets of Philadephia Nationals. Please PM with additional details.
I think the amount of unopened product out there is overrated. I have bought vending boxes from the early 70s and while there are plenty of cards that would grade PSA 6, 7 or OC or MC, they yield very few 8 NQs or better.
I haven't seen the 72 set from the mastro auction, but I am very leary of raw sets that they sell. I have seen too many stories on these boards about overgraded raw sets from their auctions.
If high grade raw cards were out there in quantity, people would grade them. Why wait? The prices that can be realized for high grade low pop cards have never been higher.
Also, if the 72 set is truly mint, no one would sell it raw with the premiums that can be made for PSA 9s.
View my inventory of PSA Graded Cards at My Ebay Store
Barkus, I disagree with you. There is a ton of high quality 70s stuff around. I have seen it. I have bought it.I have friends that have it. And certainly tons of 8 type material. Now there are truely a handful of cards that will always be tougher due to placement on the sheets. Go to the major shows....the 70s stuff is there(Its just a question of getting first shot at it as there are more than a few guys doing the same thing at every show) Gobbling it all up. Most of the big time dealers wont even bother bringing anything older than 69. I agree with Mschmidt and Castaldi that these sets could be duplicated probably for less $$$ a year from now.Easily. Not taking anything away from your beautiful sets. They are outstanding and as I said before IMO you made a smart choice with Memory Lane. I think you are getting some great prices for them especially the 74 set which is mediocre at best. You look at Steve Wolfes that sold in the last Mastro auction and there is no comparison.I dont remember what that sold for but I dont think you are too far off.Maybe that one got lost amongst all the great stuff in the auction similiar to the 78set that was in that same auction. Unless you are using this thread as spam...I dont think its necessary.Yours will do just fine. Im happy for you.
Mid to Late 70's yes, early 70's , there some but not tons of it in high grade. Alot of it has been cannibalized already. I havent seen high quality commons at a show in ages. Nothing but 8 or less.
David> "Also, if the 72 set is truly mint, no one would sell it raw with the premiums that can be made for PSA 9s."
I would really disagree with your statement. While there is a potential premium to be had for PSA9s, but I think there's just more to it than that. I mean if you have a truly raw set, there is some work - and up-front capital - involved in getting it holdered. First you have to front the cash for grading fees, which on a 72 set is not insignificant. Then, there's the fact that many truly mint cards will end up in PSA8 or PSA7 holders. Then you have to play the game of resumbitting them to get the truly correct grade. Then you have to put all the work into selling them.
I'm sure when you were deciding to sell your sets, you had to make some tough decisions like whether to sell the sets complete or to piece them out. I'm sure you carefully considered the factors of risk, work/effort, and reward before deciding to sell as complete sets. I'm sure someone with a truly mint set would carefully balance the same criteria, but depending on his situation may well come up with a different outcome.
Based on conversations with people I trust, they have had experiences similar to Bob's. But it's not like you can go and bid on just any old raw set they throw up. You have to be selective.
David, I read your last post again and need to add that my last post was regarding the total amount of high grade 70s product out there that is already opened. I certainly have no knowledge of how much unopened product is still untouched and agree with you that vending boxes are a crap shoot.
<< <i>That's a nice price on the 72 set. I'm surprised you are not happy by it already. >>
Me too. Someone paying 27K for that set (with the juice) is amazing. Especially when, as pointed out, there is no guarantee of a set like that retaining anywhere near that in resale value in the future. While I haven't tried to complete this set, I have sold many low pop commons and stars from it over that last few years, and recently, prices have been way down on even the low pop cards.
That's a nice price on the 72 set. I'm surprised you are not happy by it already.
I agree, however we have no idea how much he has into it. also another factor is the reason it was put together, was it put together with resale in mind? or was it a hobby endevour that is now being moved (for what ever reason) I have 18k in my 65 set. if i sold it tomorrow I'd be happy if I got 2/3 of what I put into it. It was a way for me to keep my mind occupied over a few winters and I had fun. It all depends on reasons. Money is not the bottom line for some.
have 18k in my 65 set. if i sold it tomorrow I'd be happy if I got 2/3 of what I put into it.
That's the way I feel about many of the cards I own. I'd be happy too, I enjoyed the heck out of collecting them. The best thing about cards is that even if the resale is lower than the purchase price, at least it isn't $0.
Just recieved my catalog today on the day of the auction. I only live like 15 minutes away from Memory Lanes, I wonder why I got mine so late. I better hurry up and register online.
Well, if you enjoyed building the sets and want to let it go, at present your at $44,177, which I wouldn't mind.
Dale
1st Finest Set - 1981 Baseball Fleer Basic - Retired 1st Finest Set - 1981 Baseball Fleer Master - Retired 1st Finest Set - 1955 Baseball Golden Stamps - Cleveland Indians - Retired 1st Finest Set - Mel Harder Baseball Master - Active Mel Harder Showcase Set - Active #15 on Current Set Registry - 1972 Topps Baseball - Retired #23 on All Time Set Registry - 1972 Topps Baseball - Retired
This has to be one of the worst -- if not the worst -- complete PSA Topps set auction results in history! No one bid on the final day. This is such a georgeous and huge set. I have carefully calculated that if this set had been auctioned piecemeal on Ebay, it could have fetched between $40,500 and $42,500. So by my estimatation, this consignor left about $17,500 to $19,500 on the table. He simply gave a suitcase of money away. One could have purchased a nice automobile for that amount.
From what has been described above, the PSA 9's were largely high-end 9's that today could be 10's. Auctioning these off card-by-card on Ebay, collectors would have staged mini-war after mini-war for so many cards. But now that chance is lost forever with this set -- lost, that is, for the consignor. Whomever picked this set up -- rather stole it -- for $23,000 (plus 15% buyer fee = $26,450) got the bargain of the year. Now that person may sell it off piecemeal and get the $40,500 to $42,500 themself.
And if the conigner had to pay a seller's commission, he'll get even less than $23,000. This is not pretty.
<< <i>This has to be one of the worst -- if not the worst -- complete PSA Topps set auction results in history! No one bid on the final day. This is such a georgeous and huge set. I have carefully calculated that if this set had been auctioned piecemeal on Ebay, it could have fetched between $40,500 and $42,500. So by my estimatation, this consignor left about $17,500 to $19,500 on the table. He simply gave a suitcase of money away. One could have purchased a nice automobile for that amount.
From what has been described above, the PSA 9's were largely high-end 9's that today could be 10's. Auctioning these off card-by-card on Ebay, collectors would have staged mini-war after mini-war for so many cards. But now that chance is lost forever with this set -- lost, that is, for the consignor. Whomever picked this set up -- rather stole it -- for $23,000 (plus 15% buyer fee = $26,450) got the bargain of the year. Now that person may sell it off piecemeal and get the $40,500 to $42,500 themself.
And if the conigner had to pay a seller's commission, he'll get even less than $23,000. This is not pretty.
How could one sleep at night?
Chris >>
Kicking a man while he's down.....geez...
Collecting vintage auto'd fb cards and Dan Marino cards!!
At the end of the day I am pleased with the results. The 72 set went for less than I expected, but as Steve well knows, I made careful purchases in putting it together so I made out ok. The final sale price of the 74 set helped because it was a bit higher than I expected. Live and learn. I'm not sure which route I would take in the future. The results of the 74 set would encourage me to sell as a complete set, whereas the results of the 72 set would not.
View my inventory of PSA Graded Cards at My Ebay Store
Building a set later than 1969 and hoping to profit or I would say break even, especially when it was built during a time a heavy speculating and competition.
I would never expect to make a profit on anything after 1969. PSA values are falling across the board on all of these issues.
Its fair to say that all of those who built post 69 sets in the last 4 years will fair much worse than those attempting to build them now.
CollectorChris> I disagree with the main premise of what you're saying.
First - the implication that the sets did badly, I think is just patently not true. The 1974 set had a GPA of only 8.20 and went for $10k before fees. A year and a half ago, my fully-complete 1972 set with a GPA of 8.15 sold for $10k. Considering there are 127 more cards in the 72 set, my 72 set likely had more total 9s than did the 74 set. Also, the market for 72s has always been better than that of 74s. And the populations have increased pretty significantly in the year and a half since I sold my set. Like I said earlier, Gary Nusbaum not too long ago put up a complete 74 set which wasn't all that different than this one. I want to say his minimum bid was in the $7k range - and he got no bids. So I think the final price on the 74 set was particularly outstanding. On the 72 set, it's a tough go because you need someone willing and able to pony up $25k all in one shot. And considering the population increases and the market for 72s over the last year, I think $23k was probably on the high side of fair. Not exceptional, but fair. Given the plethora of 68s, that set was probably about right. Considering the PSA9 populations for 68T, I probably would have liked to see more 9s in the set.
Second - that he simply could have made more money breaking the set. I would say the answer is a definite maybe. It also depends on what cost you associate with labor. As I mentioned in a previous post, I've built the 72 set in graded form twice. The second time I sold as a set, but the first time I pieced it out. I can assure you, doing so is a hell of a lot of work. In that instance, any additional revenue made by parting the set out was offset by the cost of the labor I had to put into it. And if you talk to people who have broken their set rather than sold as a whole, I think you'll find that one of the frustrating things about the ordeal is that when the sales slow down, you're left with 100-200 cards which may or may not go for the cost of grading.
All that said, I would love to hear how you came up with your $40,500 to $42,500 figure for piecing out the 72 set.
I got my catalogue on Wednesday and didn't have a chance to read it until yesterday which is a shame. I may have looked into buying the '72 set if I had more time to crunch the numbers and see what the current market value is and determine at what price that it's undervalued or overvalued. The best scenario for me however is that a dealer buys this '72 set and breaks it up card by card and sells them on eBay. (I currently have at 45% complete).
The '68 set did as as expected and the '74 set did real well - someone probably overpaid a bit in my opinion. Here's my take on selling sets. Its probably better to sell a set complete when the market value is under $12,000 maybe $15,000 tops. When you have a complete set that you think should sell in the $25,000 range or a lot higher, you are really asking for trouble. Anyone can scrape together $10,000 or $15,000 by using cash withdrawls on credit cards and so forth, but when you hope that there are people with $25,000 or more laying around, you are setting yourself up for a disaster. Sets like that need to be broken up and sold by the card.
The 72 set went for about what I thought it would . Very good points were made by MCastaldi and Dude in regard. Breaking up a large set like the 72 is a LOT of work. The star cards and tougher commons are easy to move but moving the 400-500 middle of the road commons at a profit is extremely tough and very time consuming. I wouldn't go as far as too say the 72 set is a poor mans set but the real deep pocket collectors who drive the auction house prices and who have 30-40 grand readily accessible for cards aren't players in the set and most big dealers aren't willing to touch 70's cards unless it's at a significant discount. I'm not at all familiar with the market for the 68's but the price realized for the 74 set was almost twice what I predicted so at the end of day I don't think David did too bad in comparison to reasonable market expectations. You also have to keep in mind that in the last year David was nearly solely responsible for the strong EBAY prices realized for low pop commons from the 72 set.
Looks like Collector Chris should have bid on the 72 set if he wasnt the winner already. Congrats to Barkus on your sets and especially on the 74 set. Somebody really overpaid for that one.
Hey Joe, that's pretty funny. I have been really good about laying off the ebay 72s for a while and letting you guys pick up low pops. I figured it was only fair given the number of low pops registry members were buying from me off my website. With Dale and Mark joining the mix, I am almost out of my 72 low pops. I remember when I grabbed a bunch of the Blue I/As and got blasted for overpaying. I don't have any of those left so I must have done something right.
In case anyone is wondering, I plan to use the money from my sets to continue to build my inventory on my website. I have over 8,000 cards listed, including over 4,000 PSA graded cards, and my inventory grows every day.
If anyone has cards to sell, I have $$$$$ to spend!!!!!!
View my inventory of PSA Graded Cards at My Ebay Store
It would be appreciated if you could explain why you titled this thread: “Someone is going to Steal my 72 set! Auction ends Today!”
Not a single bid was made on the last day, so it ended at the seemingly bargain basement price of $23,000.
Yet this morning you wrote: “At the end of the day I am pleased with the results. The 72 set went for less than I expected…”
Are you pleased that someone was able to (in your own words) steal your ’72 set?
On March 26. you said “I am hoping for a sale price of $35,000+.”
Imagine if you had sold this set card-by-card on Ebay. You mentioned on March 21 that “There is super strong demand for 72s on ebay and the breakup fee for my set, given the number of low pops and high end examples, is at least SMR [$36,000].”
Personally, I think the time and effort that would have been expended by auctioning them off piecemeal on Ebay would have been well worth the extra $15,000-$20,000 payoff.
To Mcastaldi: I was only talking about the 1972 set in my prior post. Also, a GPA 8.15 1972 set is completely different than a GPA 8.63 set. It’s in a different league and like comparing apples to oranges. A GPA 8.15 is basically an 8 set while a GPA 8.63 is closer to being a 9 set. PSA 9 cards typically fetch orders of magnitude more at auction than their 8 counterparts.
<< <i> Personally, I think the time and effort that would have been expended by auctioning them off piecemeal on Ebay would have been well worth the extra $15,000-$20,000 payoff.
Collector Chris
Edited for grammar/typos >>
I'm not so sure if if there would be an extra 15-20 k payoff by breaking the set. With 70's sets the "pops" can be staggering in both 8 and 9. Once the premium cards are gone your left with a bunch of cards that just aren't in great demand....I've been there. You also have to figure that a significant portion of individual sales are going to be subject the cut taken by Ebay AND Paypal. It also takes a great deal of time to break a huge set. Between listing, packing and shipping you have to figure just how much is your down time worth. There are plenty of saavy collectors and dealers that would have jumped on the chance to make 15-20 g's above the 23,000 hammer price...the opportunity just wasn't there.
Chris> I re-read my post and still don't see where I compared a 72 set @ 8.15 to a 72 set @ 8.6x. I did compare the sale price of a 72 set @ 8.15 to the sale price of a 74 set @ 8.20 to illustrate what a strong price Mr. Barkus got on his 74 set. I feel this was an extremely fair comparrison.
I can assure you, I am quite familiar with the 72 set and the market for PSA-graded examples. That said, I'm still waiting for someone to show me where the "extra $15,000-$20,000 payoff" would have been realized - especially after labor is factored in. I agree there is potentially more money to be had in parting out a set. I just don't think there was an extra $15k to $20k there to be squeezed out of the set we're talking about. I'm certainly open to being proved wrong.
I think $23,000 was a steal. I am not going to take the time to value each card to determine a breakup fee, but in my mind $35,000 could be realized from breaking up the set. As others who know the sources of my cards have pointed out, there were a lot of potential 10s in PSA 9 holders and PSA 9s in PSA 8 holders. In order to get to $35k some cracking and resubmitting would have been required.
I am happy because the price of my 74 set helps offset the price of my 72 set. I also am also not too unhappy because I made out ok on all three sets. I made a number of bulk buys at what I believe were very favorable prices. I have been selling for some time now individual 72s because I had 3 or more of many of the cards in my set.
What was tough was that I really kept the best of the best in my set. When the buyer gets the 72 set he will be amazed at the quality of the cards.
View my inventory of PSA Graded Cards at My Ebay Store
<<because I had 3 or more of many of the cards in my set.>>
Does this mean that you pretty much set the market and outbid everyone else for these cards? There was a guy that did that in 1967's a few years back. I dont think he hoarded them three deep but I think he lost money when he sold his set even though he broke it up. I think I only outbid him maybe once as I built my set.
I was trying to find perfectly centered examples and I bought a number of large lots and there was a lot of duplication. I was also an opportunistic buyer. I was the most focused on low pops so when they came up I bid aggressively. I ended up using many of them to trade for the last cards I needed to complete my set. I think I always bid reasonably and I certainly did not drive the market price up. Arny and Jami were able to get plenty of cards for their sets.
View my inventory of PSA Graded Cards at My Ebay Store
<< <i>There are plenty of saavy collectors and dealers that would have jumped on the chance to make 15-20 g's above the 23,000 hammer price...the opportunity just wasn't there. >>
You are correct. $23,000 for that set is about right, maybe even too much. The breakup value is most certainly not there anymore for a set like that - when you take it on its own merits (without artificially inflating the price of percieved low pop commons) once you sell the stars and some of the high numbers, good luck giving the rest away below grading fees on Ebay.
It looks like you made a great decision to me on how to sell your sets. You appear to made about 80% SMR on the group of sets. I have to believe it would have taken at least 100 (maybe 200) hours to scan/list/ship these sets if broken. Add in the Ebay/Naxcom/Paypal fees and it really looks like you made the best decision. I think you took a higher risk selling this way, but in the end you came out looking good from where I sit.
he wasn't kidding about the whirlwind spending spree. i saw him on a bunch of 1966's last night and other cards from the 1960's. being a well informed collector of the 1966 set my only advice is be careful.
that registry is filled with quirky, vengeful and paranoid collectors (which i fit into all of those categories). plus there is a tigers collector, a pirates collector a twins collector, a red sox collector, a cub collector, a mets collector not to mention the standard yankees mark-up.
i have seen cards go from $400 to $40 in less than a year. one card had a pop of 3 in psa 9 and went to 15 plus two psa 10's in twelve months. there have been some great auctions on 1 and 2 pops and there are more cat and mouse strategy than you will see at the world series of poker on some of those auctions.
The prices on those those sets are not bad at all. I though 1970's sets were completely dead and that they would sell for only a fraction of the SMR but I was wrong.
<< <i>I played around with the 66s last night. I am happy with my purchases. I don't plan on collecting the set. Just speculating. >>
David i have some real sweet psa 9s available that were extras from sets i sold. zip me an email @ pc32@pacbell.net if you'd like some scans pc32 ebay id
Comments
The 72 set continues to surprise me. Notwithstanding Mike's comments, there is no way to duplicate that set for $23,000. I believe collectors do care about the quality of their 9s. There are also about 10 guys actively trying to complete the 72 set in PSA 9 or better and they all need the same 30-40 cards. Anytime one comes up it is likely to be a $200 card.
I think that the Schaal remains tough and that the Kendall is tougher. The Houk is very tough in PSA 9 (like the one in my set), but not so crazy tough in 8. The Expos Team card may be the toughest right now. I think a PSA 8 could easily go for $300+ with the number of people chasing it. It was the last card I needed for my set and I had to make one hell of a deal to get it.
The set also has a PSA 10 Rollie Fingers, which is a 1/2. Even Frank's great set does not include that card.
When I built the set the second time, from the beginning I took the approach to be extremely aggressive on the cards that were the toughest and find the easy stuff as I found it. After building the set once already, I had a really good feel on which were the toughest cards both in terms of population and obtainability. At the time, FB and EJ had finished their set, and other collectors were treating cards like Henderson, Expos RC, Reds RC, and others as just any other card because they had not yet learned the nuances of the set. As a result, I was able to win some of these on eBay for quite a bit less than I expected. For example, there was an Expos Team where I had a $200 snipe, and ended up winning it for like $35 or something. I was also able to find raw examples of the toughest cards and submit them myself. In many cases, multiple examples. At one time, I had three Expos Teams in PSA8, which accounted for half the PSA8 population at the time. At one time, FB owned 2/3 of the PSA8 Hendersons. I'm not sure we'll see something like that again.
Based on my experience selling my second set, I would probably agree that one couldn't duplicate your set for $23k - but - the catch is that there is only a finite number of people willing and able to swallow that amount all at one time.
I'll definitely be curious to see where the sets end up. Good luck!!!
Mike
http://www.clark22murray33.com
<< <i>
The 72 set continues to surprise me. Notwithstanding Mike's comments, there is no way to duplicate that set for $23,000. I believe collectors do care about the quality of their 9s. There are also about 10 guys actively trying to complete the 72 set in PSA 9 or better and they all need the same 30-40 cards. Anytime one comes up it is likely to be a $200 card. >>
Unless populations continue to rise. There is another great 1972 set in Mastro's catalog, which, despite not being wholly graded - is very top-of-the-line across the board. Not to mention that there is still a plethora of unopened wax and vending for a number of 1972 series, which likely will only inflate populations further.
Obviously, best of luck to you in your consignment. I would personally believe that, in a year or two, it might not be so hard to duplicate a set like this for $30k or less [e.g. the price with the fees added]. Just looking at the 1972 Topps Registry, and there are 18,621 1972 Topps baseball cards registered. That's a whole lot of product on the Registry - not to mention the many collectors out there *not* on the Registry. All you need is a couple of sales, or an increase in population without a concurrent increase in demand, and I can see someone putting together an awfully nice set in a couple of years for $30k or significantly less.
Marc
I haven't seen the 72 set from the mastro auction, but I am very leary of raw sets that they sell. I have seen too many stories on these boards about overgraded raw sets from their auctions.
If high grade raw cards were out there in quantity, people would grade them. Why wait? The prices that can be realized for high grade low pop cards have never been higher.
Also, if the 72 set is truly mint, no one would sell it raw with the premiums that can be made for PSA 9s.
I disagree with you. There is a ton of high quality 70s stuff around. I have seen it. I have bought it.I have friends that have it. And certainly tons of 8 type material. Now there are truely a handful of cards that will always be tougher due to placement on the sheets. Go to the major shows....the 70s stuff is there(Its just a question of getting first shot at it as there are more than a few guys doing the same thing at every show) Gobbling it all up. Most of the big time dealers wont even bother bringing anything older than 69.
I agree with Mschmidt and Castaldi that these sets could be duplicated probably for less $$$ a year from now.Easily. Not taking anything away from your beautiful sets. They are outstanding and as I said before IMO you made a smart choice with Memory Lane. I think you are getting some great prices for them especially the 74 set which is mediocre at best. You look at Steve Wolfes that sold in the last Mastro auction and there is no comparison.I dont remember what that sold for but I dont think you are too far off.Maybe that one got lost amongst all the great stuff in the auction similiar to the 78set that was in that same auction.
Unless you are using this thread as spam...I dont think its necessary.Yours will do just fine. Im happy for you.
I would really disagree with your statement. While there is a potential premium to be had for PSA9s, but I think there's just more to it than that. I mean if you have a truly raw set, there is some work - and up-front capital - involved in getting it holdered. First you have to front the cash for grading fees, which on a 72 set is not insignificant. Then, there's the fact that many truly mint cards will end up in PSA8 or PSA7 holders. Then you have to play the game of resumbitting them to get the truly correct grade. Then you have to put all the work into selling them.
I'm sure when you were deciding to sell your sets, you had to make some tough decisions like whether to sell the sets complete or to piece them out. I'm sure you carefully considered the factors of risk, work/effort, and reward before deciding to sell as complete sets. I'm sure someone with a truly mint set would carefully balance the same criteria, but depending on his situation may well come up with a different outcome.
Based on conversations with people I trust, they have had experiences similar to Bob's. But it's not like you can go and bid on just any old raw set they throw up. You have to be selective.
Mike
I read your last post again and need to add that my last post was regarding the total amount of high grade 70s product out there that is already opened. I certainly have no knowledge of how much unopened product is still untouched and agree with you that vending boxes are a crap shoot.
<< <i>That's a nice price on the 72 set. I'm surprised you are not happy by it already. >>
Me too. Someone paying 27K for that set (with the juice) is amazing. Especially when, as pointed out, there is no guarantee of a set like that retaining anywhere near that in resale value in the future. While I haven't tried to complete this set, I have sold many low pop commons and stars from it over that last few years, and recently, prices have been way down on even the low pop cards.
I agree, however we have no idea how much he has into it. also another factor is the reason it was put together, was it put together with resale in mind? or was it a hobby endevour that is now being moved (for what ever reason) I have 18k in my 65 set. if i sold it tomorrow I'd be happy if I got 2/3 of what I put into it. It was a way for me to keep my mind occupied over a few winters and I had fun. It all depends on reasons. Money is not the bottom line for some.
Steve
That's the way I feel about many of the cards I own. I'd be happy too, I enjoyed the heck out of collecting them. The best thing about cards is that even if the resale is lower than the purchase price, at least it isn't $0.
Jery
Dale
1st Finest Set - 1981 Baseball Fleer Master - Retired
1st Finest Set - 1955 Baseball Golden Stamps - Cleveland Indians - Retired
1st Finest Set - Mel Harder Baseball Master - Active
Mel Harder Showcase Set - Active
#15 on Current Set Registry - 1972 Topps Baseball - Retired
#23 on All Time Set Registry - 1972 Topps Baseball - Retired
* C. PASCUAL BASIC #3
* T. PEREZ BASIC #4 100%
* L. TIANT BASIC #1
* DRYSDALE BASIC #4 100%
* MAGIC MASTER #4/BASIC #3
* PALMEIRO MASTER/BASIC #1
* '65 DISNEYLAND #2
* '78 ELVIS PRESLEY #6
* '78 THREE'S COMPANY #1
WaltDisneyBoards
SW
1955 Bowman Raw complete with 90% Ex-NR or better
Now seeking 1949 Eureka Sportstamps...NM condition
Working on '78 Autographed set now 99.9% complete -
Working on '89 Topps autoed set now complete
From what has been described above, the PSA 9's were largely high-end 9's that today could be 10's. Auctioning these off card-by-card on Ebay, collectors would have staged mini-war after mini-war for so many cards. But now that chance is lost forever with this set -- lost, that is, for the consignor. Whomever picked this set up -- rather stole it -- for $23,000 (plus 15% buyer fee = $26,450) got the bargain of the year. Now that person may sell it off piecemeal and get the $40,500 to $42,500 themself.
And if the conigner had to pay a seller's commission, he'll get even less than $23,000. This is not pretty.
How could one sleep at night?
Chris
<< <i>This has to be one of the worst -- if not the worst -- complete PSA Topps set auction results in history! No one bid on the final day. This is such a georgeous and huge set. I have carefully calculated that if this set had been auctioned piecemeal on Ebay, it could have fetched between $40,500 and $42,500. So by my estimatation, this consignor left about $17,500 to $19,500 on the table. He simply gave a suitcase of money away. One could have purchased a nice automobile for that amount.
From what has been described above, the PSA 9's were largely high-end 9's that today could be 10's. Auctioning these off card-by-card on Ebay, collectors would have staged mini-war after mini-war for so many cards. But now that chance is lost forever with this set -- lost, that is, for the consignor. Whomever picked this set up -- rather stole it -- for $23,000 (plus 15% buyer fee = $26,450) got the bargain of the year. Now that person may sell it off piecemeal and get the $40,500 to $42,500 themself.
And if the conigner had to pay a seller's commission, he'll get even less than $23,000. This is not pretty.
How could one sleep at night?
Chris >>
Kicking a man while he's down.....geez...
References:
Onlychild, Ahmanfan, fabfrank, wufdude, jradke, Reese, Jasp, thenavarro
E-Bay id: greg_n_meg
Building a set later than 1969 and hoping to profit or I would say break even, especially when it was built during a time a heavy speculating and competition.
I would never expect to make a profit on anything after 1969. PSA values are falling across the board on all of these issues.
Its fair to say that all of those who built post 69 sets in the last 4 years will fair much worse than those attempting to build them now.
Loves me some shiny!
First - the implication that the sets did badly, I think is just patently not true. The 1974 set had a GPA of only 8.20 and went for $10k before fees. A year and a half ago, my fully-complete 1972 set with a GPA of 8.15 sold for $10k. Considering there are 127 more cards in the 72 set, my 72 set likely had more total 9s than did the 74 set. Also, the market for 72s has always been better than that of 74s. And the populations have increased pretty significantly in the year and a half since I sold my set. Like I said earlier, Gary Nusbaum not too long ago put up a complete 74 set which wasn't all that different than this one. I want to say his minimum bid was in the $7k range - and he got no bids. So I think the final price on the 74 set was particularly outstanding. On the 72 set, it's a tough go because you need someone willing and able to pony up $25k all in one shot. And considering the population increases and the market for 72s over the last year, I think $23k was probably on the high side of fair. Not exceptional, but fair. Given the plethora of 68s, that set was probably about right. Considering the PSA9 populations for 68T, I probably would have liked to see more 9s in the set.
Second - that he simply could have made more money breaking the set. I would say the answer is a definite maybe. It also depends on what cost you associate with labor. As I mentioned in a previous post, I've built the 72 set in graded form twice. The second time I sold as a set, but the first time I pieced it out. I can assure you, doing so is a hell of a lot of work. In that instance, any additional revenue made by parting the set out was offset by the cost of the labor I had to put into it. And if you talk to people who have broken their set rather than sold as a whole, I think you'll find that one of the frustrating things about the ordeal is that when the sales slow down, you're left with 100-200 cards which may or may not go for the cost of grading.
All that said, I would love to hear how you came up with your $40,500 to $42,500 figure for piecing out the 72 set.
Mike
The '68 set did as as expected and the '74 set did real well - someone probably overpaid a bit in my opinion. Here's my take on selling sets. Its probably better to sell a set complete when the market value is under $12,000 maybe $15,000 tops. When you have a complete set that you think should sell in the $25,000 range or a lot higher, you are really asking for trouble. Anyone can scrape together $10,000 or $15,000 by using cash withdrawls on credit cards and so forth, but when you hope that there are people with $25,000 or more laying around, you are setting yourself up for a disaster. Sets like that need to be broken up and sold by the card.
Breaking up a large set like the 72 is a LOT of work. The star cards and tougher commons are easy to move but moving the 400-500 middle of the road commons at a profit is extremely tough and very time consuming.
I wouldn't go as far as too say the 72 set is a poor mans set but the real deep pocket collectors who drive the auction house prices and who have 30-40 grand readily accessible for cards aren't players in the set and most big dealers aren't willing to touch 70's cards unless it's at a significant discount.
I'm not at all familiar with the market for the 68's but the price realized for the 74 set was almost twice what I predicted so at the end of day I don't think David did too bad in comparison to reasonable market expectations.
You also have to keep in mind that in the last year David was nearly solely responsible for the strong EBAY prices realized for low pop commons from the 72 set.
In case anyone is wondering, I plan to use the money from my sets to continue to build my inventory on my website. I have over 8,000 cards listed, including over 4,000 PSA graded cards, and my inventory grows every day.
If anyone has cards to sell, I have $$$$$ to spend!!!!!!
It would be appreciated if you could explain why you titled this thread: “Someone is going to Steal my 72 set! Auction ends Today!”
Not a single bid was made on the last day, so it ended at the seemingly bargain basement price of $23,000.
Yet this morning you wrote: “At the end of the day I am pleased with the results. The 72 set went for less than I expected…”
Are you pleased that someone was able to (in your own words) steal your ’72 set?
On March 26. you said “I am hoping for a sale price of $35,000+.”
Imagine if you had sold this set card-by-card on Ebay. You mentioned on March 21 that “There is super strong demand for 72s on ebay and the breakup fee for my set, given the number of low pops and high end examples, is at least SMR [$36,000].”
Personally, I think the time and effort that would have been expended by auctioning them off piecemeal on Ebay would have been well worth the extra $15,000-$20,000 payoff.
To Mcastaldi: I was only talking about the 1972 set in my prior post. Also, a GPA 8.15 1972 set is completely different than a GPA 8.63 set. It’s in a different league and like comparing apples to oranges. A GPA 8.15 is basically an 8 set while a GPA 8.63 is closer to being a 9 set. PSA 9 cards typically fetch orders of magnitude more at auction than their 8 counterparts.
Collector Chris
Edited for grammar/typos
<< <i>
Personally, I think the time and effort that would have been expended by auctioning them off piecemeal on Ebay would have been well worth the extra $15,000-$20,000 payoff.
Collector Chris
Edited for grammar/typos >>
I'm not so sure if if there would be an extra 15-20 k payoff by breaking the set. With 70's sets the "pops" can be staggering in both 8 and 9. Once the premium cards are gone your left with a bunch of cards that just aren't in great demand....I've been there. You also have to figure that a significant portion of individual sales are going to be subject the cut taken by Ebay AND Paypal. It also takes a great deal of time to break a huge set. Between listing, packing and shipping you have to figure just how much is your down time worth.
There are plenty of saavy collectors and dealers that would have jumped on the chance to make 15-20 g's above the 23,000 hammer price...the opportunity just wasn't there.
I can assure you, I am quite familiar with the 72 set and the market for PSA-graded examples. That said, I'm still waiting for someone to show me where the "extra $15,000-$20,000 payoff" would have been realized - especially after labor is factored in. I agree there is potentially more money to be had in parting out a set. I just don't think there was an extra $15k to $20k there to be squeezed out of the set we're talking about. I'm certainly open to being proved wrong.
Mike
I am happy because the price of my 74 set helps offset the price of my 72 set. I also am also not too unhappy because I made out ok on all three sets. I made a number of bulk buys at what I believe were very favorable prices. I have been selling for some time now individual 72s because I had 3 or more of many of the cards in my set.
What was tough was that I really kept the best of the best in my set. When the buyer gets the 72 set he will be amazed at the quality of the cards.
Does this mean that you pretty much set the market and outbid everyone else for these cards? There was a guy that did that in 1967's a few years back. I dont think he hoarded them three deep but I think he lost money when he sold his set even though he broke it up. I think I only outbid him maybe once as I built my set.
Regards,
Alan
I would have what I felt was a low end 8 and would buy another snd then sell the one i disliked.
never went 3 deep though.
Steve
<< <i>There are plenty of saavy collectors and dealers that would have jumped on the chance to make 15-20 g's above the 23,000 hammer price...the opportunity just wasn't there. >>
You are correct. $23,000 for that set is about right, maybe even too much. The breakup value is most certainly not there anymore for a set like that - when you take it on its own merits (without artificially inflating the price of percieved low pop commons) once you sell the stars and some of the high numbers, good luck giving the rest away below grading fees on Ebay.
I've been there, too.
that registry is filled with quirky, vengeful and paranoid collectors (which i fit into all of those categories). plus there is a tigers collector, a pirates collector a twins collector, a red sox collector, a cub collector, a mets collector not to mention the standard yankees mark-up.
i have seen cards go from $400 to $40 in less than a year. one card had a pop of 3 in psa 9 and went to 15 plus two psa 10's in twelve months. there have been some great auctions on 1 and 2 pops and there are more cat and mouse strategy than you will see at the world series of poker on some of those auctions.
<< <i>I played around with the 66s last night. I am happy with my purchases. I don't plan on collecting the set. Just speculating. >>
David
i have some real sweet psa 9s available that were extras
from sets i sold. zip me an email @ pc32@pacbell.net
if you'd like some scans
pc32
ebay id