Now that the Reiver coins are hitting the market, is it OK to ask a dealer how much he paid for it?
Longacre
Posts: 16,717 ✭✭✭
I see that the coins from the Reiver collection are hitting the market in greater numbers. Suppose you see one at a show that a dealer is selling. Because the auction was so recent, is it OK to cut to the chase and just ask the dealer how much he paid for the coin at auction, rather than taking the time to look up the information yourself? Also, generally, how relevant is this question, because it is entirely possible that this dealer is the 50th dealer down the food chain that ended up with the coin? Should you always focus on the purchase price, and don't even bother with getting into how much the dealer might have paid and how much the markup is?
Always took candy from strangers
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
0
Comments
Cladiator
I brake for Bust
Posts: 11328
Joined: Dec 2003
Monday February 27, 2006 9:56 AM (NEW!)
It only takes a minute to look up the coin in the Heritage archive. Pretty much all major shows have a table set up by eBay with computers for you to use. Just jump on one and check it out. Search under the Reiver auctions and by date/denomination and you'll find it right away.
<< <i>It only takes a minute to look up the coin in the Heritage archive. Pretty much all major shows have a table set up by eBay with computers for you to use. Just jump on one and check it out. Search under the Reiver auctions and by date/denomination and you'll find it right away. >>
I agree with your point, but wouldn't it just be easier while you were standing there to ask what the purchase price was? Or is the selling-dealer not a reliable source of information?
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
<< <i>
<< <i>It only takes a minute to look up the coin in the Heritage archive. Pretty much all major shows have a table set up by eBay with computers for you to use. Just jump on one and check it out. Search under the Reiver auctions and by date/denomination and you'll find it right away. >>
I agree with your point, but wouldn't it just be easier while you were standing there to ask what the purchase price was? Or is the selling-dealer not a reliable source of information? >>
Actually it might be fun to ask and then go verify at Heritage. Just to see if your leg is being pulled.
and i would rather find out myself as then i know waht i know and the dealer does not know what i know or waht i am thinking or my thought process
then all i gots to do is smile and ask how much as i got everything all figured out already
I can't tell you how many times a dealer has quoted a price on something and then in the next breath claimed he's only many marking it up $5.00.
The latest ploy is to tell me they paid some price over Gray Sheet "ask," for a run-of-the-mill item (not something that is really outstanding) and ask me to quote them a profitable price. They may have paid over "ask" for something ... I do it myself for the business if I REALLY like it, but you are doing that all the time, you must have a great retail customer base, or you are flirting with financial ruin.
<< <i>I agree with your point, but wouldn't it just be easier while you were standing there to ask what the purchase price was? Or is the selling-dealer not a reliable source of information? >>
I think asking any deakler what he paid for any coin is very bad form - akin to asking your neighbors what they paid for their new dinette set or stereo. Asking for this information is unlikley to ingratiate you to anyone.
Also, and by inference, your question seems to suggest that if the dealer paid 'x' then the selling price should be not more 'x' +10% or something. That may be realisitic, or it may be utter folly, depending on the coin.
My suggestion would to ask the dealer his price, do the research yourself and conclude whether or not you wish to pay the amount quoted.
Or it may be he is stuck in the coin. Or took it in trade. Or it may be on memo to him from a customer.
Whatever the underlying cost, it is not necessary to your evaluation for buying.
You do the homework, then make a decision based on what you want to pay.
Perhaps a better question to ask is if the dealer knows what it realized at the sale.
It makes no difference as to what it is worth to you, as the sale is now history.
The only thing that makes a difference is whether the coin is worth X to you now.
I firmly believe in numismatics as the world's greatest hobby, but recognize that this is a luxury and without collectors, we can all spend/melt our collections/inventories.
eBaystore
Authorized dealer for PCGS, PCGS Currency, NGC, NCS, PMG, CAC. Member of the PNG, ANA. Member dealer of CoinPlex and CCE/FACTS as "CH5"
I just ordered a new kitchen table for 1020.00.
Knowing what the auction PR was on the coin is not relevant, that is, if you don't mind paying far more than the market just determined current value. To me, buying a recent auction coin does not make good sense. Why pay a dealer any more than you would have needed to bid on the lot yourself? I heard that story about the winning dealer willing to pay a lot more than he did for the lot. Total BS!!!!!!!
Just like the Jay Roe California Gold pieces, when they went for big money, only later resale PR were much lower. The Jay Roe prices still have not come back. Same thing will happen with the Reiver coins, but probably not so much variation in price.
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
To me it is much more interesting to watch what dealers buy at auctions, how they price it, and how long the stuff lasts in their inventory. RYK mentioned such a case the other day.
<< <i>It's usually bad form to ask a dealer what he paid for something, and if he tells you chances are it's a load of crap.
. >>
Yeah, I agree. I usually ask "how many more do you want at that price?'!
<< <i>To me, buying a recent auction coin does not make good sense. Why pay a dealer any more than you would have needed to bid on the lot yourself? I heard that story about the winning dealer willing to pay a lot more than he did for the lot. Total BS!!!!!!! >>
So according to your logic, every coin sold in every auction went to a bidder who was unwilling to go even one increment more? Wow. Thats amazing.
<< <i>
<< <i>To me, buying a recent auction coin does not make good sense. Why pay a dealer any more than you would have needed to bid on the lot yourself? I heard that story about the winning dealer willing to pay a lot more than he did for the lot. Total BS!!!!!!! >>
So according to your logic, every coin sold in every auction went to a bidder who was unwilling to go even one increment more? Wow. Thats amazing. >>
I read what you wrote here several times. I cannot understand how you arrived at such a statement based on what you quoted from me.
If a bidder won a lot below their max, that has no effect on the final auction price, that price being true current market value.
When I referred to dealer stories about their willingness to pay even more for a coin, I consider such dealer statements to be untrue. Dealers will say many things just to make a sale, some of those things could actually be true.
Suppose the dealer gets it for nothing, should he sell it to you for half of what it's worth??????????
<< <i>It should NOT matter what anyone pays for a coin-only what you are comfortable paying for it.
Why hold it against some one if they bought a good coin-for whatever reason cheap? >>
Great words of wisdom.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
What really astounded me the first time I went to a major auction was viewing the coins, watching them sell for x amount, then only to see them a few weeks later in dealer inventorys with another 20-30% or more added to the price. Then sell thier rather quickly on thier site as well. I could not believe the number of folks who buy coins for a significant premium after they could have bought it in an auction. To me it seems like that if they were not able to make it to the auction themselves or comfortable in making the desicion to buy, they could have used dealer representation for a smaller fee than paying the 30% plus mark-up.
<< <i>When I referred to dealer stories about their willingness to pay even more for a coin, I consider such dealer statements to be untrue. Dealers will say many things just to make a sale >>
I understand what you said the first time and I still respectfully but totally disagree with you.
<< <i>I buy plenty of coins AFTER an auction for more. And I buy plenty of coins at sales cheaper than I was willing to pay (this scenerio DOES happen quite often).
It should NOT matter what anyone pays for a coin-only what you are comfortable paying for it.
Why hold it against some one if they bought a good coin-for whatever reason cheap? >>
I've done the same thing. It's what the coin is worth in the current market that counts, not what it sold for at on point in time.
Years ago I bought a Hard Times token that had been sold at auction from the collection of a well-known collector. At auction it brought $1,600. I purchased a year or so later for $350.00. I knew that it was the same piece because I had slides of it, and could match the marks. The dealer has also sold it with the pedigree.
Contrary to popular belief, auctions are not the always the cheapest place to buy things, and they don’t always reflect the true market. All you need is two or more bidders who get “auction fever,” or a room full of specialists who have decided that they REALLY need something at that moment, and you can end up with an unrealistically high price. Conversely something can slip through at a low price, if everyone either does not appreciate it or misses it. It also helps when an auction is held at some hour other than 3 AM, which has happened on a few occasions.
Buying top quality Seated Dimes in Gem BU and Proof.
Buying great coins - monster eye appeal only.
<< <i>I hear that some of these coins are not bringing what the sold for at Heritage. >>
Doesn't suprprise me. I think many of the Reiver coins are coins that appeal to a small niche of the numismatic community. The great majority of the collector base is probably not willing to pay the pedigree premium.
From a sellers standpoint I think, for the most part, they will sell their Reiver coins successfully but it may take them quite a bit of time.
As everyone knows dealer information on cost to them is not always reliable. Matching high quality coins with those sold earlier at auction is quite easy and should be encouraged to assist in determining market value. I must admit I have bought coins at auction that retrospective analysis discovered flaws that did not justify the price. Those coins re-enter the market place at a discount. Beware of a coin which is trading downward. There may well be a good reason.