Seller feels that a 50% refund for an item not delivered is fair?
WinPitcher
Posts: 27,726 ✭✭✭
Guys
On Feb 3rd I used the best offer feature for a box of cards. It was accepted and I paid that day via paypal. Seller left me Pos. feedback right away. He and I both have 500 plus transactions and neither are scammers. After 2 weeks and the box did not arrive I politely emailed him and asked if it was sent out yet. He replied that he had sent it out that very next day. He asked me to wait 3 more days and then to get back to him. I waited the 3 days and it still had yet to arrive and again emailed him saying so. His reply was that since it was a weekend (yesterday) and a federal Holiday (monday) he could do nothing until Tuesday regarding his going to the PO and seeing what the story was. He ended the email asking what I felt would be a possible fair outcome if the package could not be located.
I replied that I too would go to my PO on Tuesday and see what was going on as it may be sitting there all this time. I further informed him that I thought a refund would be appropriate seeing I did not get what I paid for. All communications between he and I were polite and professional. 40.00 was the amount involved.
5 minutes after I emailed him wouldn't you know it a special delivery mail truck stops at the house and delivers the box. I notice that he indeed did send it out the following day like he claimed and I emailed him again saying that it had arrived and then I left positive feedback.
In my email today he answered both emails, first that he was happy it finally arrived etc. I then opened the other email (the one in which he asked what I thought would be am appropriate resolution if I did not get the item and he disagreed that a full refund was in order and that I should share in the loss 50-50 seeing that it is now irrelevant I of course did not reply.
My question to the board is simply should I as a buyer have to take a 50% loss on an item that I did not receive? I, as a seller would have refunded the buyer at the least his purchase price. How do you guys feel regarding this?
Steve
On Feb 3rd I used the best offer feature for a box of cards. It was accepted and I paid that day via paypal. Seller left me Pos. feedback right away. He and I both have 500 plus transactions and neither are scammers. After 2 weeks and the box did not arrive I politely emailed him and asked if it was sent out yet. He replied that he had sent it out that very next day. He asked me to wait 3 more days and then to get back to him. I waited the 3 days and it still had yet to arrive and again emailed him saying so. His reply was that since it was a weekend (yesterday) and a federal Holiday (monday) he could do nothing until Tuesday regarding his going to the PO and seeing what the story was. He ended the email asking what I felt would be a possible fair outcome if the package could not be located.
I replied that I too would go to my PO on Tuesday and see what was going on as it may be sitting there all this time. I further informed him that I thought a refund would be appropriate seeing I did not get what I paid for. All communications between he and I were polite and professional. 40.00 was the amount involved.
5 minutes after I emailed him wouldn't you know it a special delivery mail truck stops at the house and delivers the box. I notice that he indeed did send it out the following day like he claimed and I emailed him again saying that it had arrived and then I left positive feedback.
In my email today he answered both emails, first that he was happy it finally arrived etc. I then opened the other email (the one in which he asked what I thought would be am appropriate resolution if I did not get the item and he disagreed that a full refund was in order and that I should share in the loss 50-50 seeing that it is now irrelevant I of course did not reply.
My question to the board is simply should I as a buyer have to take a 50% loss on an item that I did not receive? I, as a seller would have refunded the buyer at the least his purchase price. How do you guys feel regarding this?
Steve
Good for you.
0
Comments
simply put:
Should a buyer have to take a 50% loss on an item not delivered?
Steve
matt
1994 Pro Line Live
TheDallasCowboyBackfieldProject
I have found that the few times this has happened to me the seller was willing to refund my money, but I would never expect it.
This happened to me just recently on this item.. Seller who is a member of this board was more then willing to refund me or send me another card.........................I actually refused.
Card did show up after 6 weeks.
1955 Bowman Raw complete with 90% Ex-NR or better
Now seeking 1949 Eureka Sportstamps...NM condition
Working on '78 Autographed set now 99.9% complete -
Working on '89 Topps autoed set now complete
A buyer should not have to insure that an item he/she pays for arrives. that is just lame IMO.
Steve
as for the delivery conf, and insurance I do not remm. Ill go and check my ebay. my point is the seller charged X for shipping it is now the sellers responcibility that I get my package.
SELLERS TERMS:
Buyer agrees to pay $6.50 flat shipping fee to a destination within the U.S. $1.30 insurance (for first $50; $2.30 up to $100; $1.00 more per additional $100) is optional. Save on shipping! We combine charges for multiple items.
If you want the item shipped outside the U.S., please contact me for the shipping charges, and understand that the value declared for customs will be the amount of the purchase.
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We accept PayPal, money order, or certified check for immediate shipment. Credit or debit cards accepted only with PayPal. Personal checks must clear before item is shipped (normally 10 business days).
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Should you be unsure about any aspect of this item, please ask me and I'll reply ASAP.
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This item may be returned intact within 10 days of receipt for a full refund, for any reason.
So, no, I did not purchase Insurance. For whatever that is worth.
I think it is time that Sellers either include insurance in the cost of the shipping and stop this nonsence about not being responcible bla bla bla. Even though this particular seller never said that. he did though leave it optional. he did not use del confirmation. I paid with AMEX
<< <i> I always get insurance whether they pay for it or not. It helps me sleep at nite.
Great point. I believe it should be the sellers responsibility to get insurance. A product is being sold here. The seller should put it in the auction as mandatory or just pay for it themselves. If insurance is not offered, the seller shouldnt be crying about it if they have to pay for a lost item. In my opinion its the sellers responsibilty to get the item to the buyer.
Matt
1994 Pro Line Live
TheDallasCowboyBackfieldProject
<< <i> Great point. I believe it should be the sellers responsibility to get insurance. A product is being sold here. The seller should put it in the auction as mandatory or just pay for it themselves. If insurance is not offered, the seller shouldnt be crying about it if they have to pay for a lost item. In my opinion its the sellers responsibilty to get the item to the buyer.
Matt >>
Actually, that is Ebay's policy also. Sellers who say otherwise are ill informed. Ebay/Paypal will uphold any claim for undelivered or damaged merchandise. I "self-insure" for all items under $35. For all others I purchase the insurance. Remember too that if a claim is made on the insurance, the seller is the one that collects - not the buyer. If a seller wishes to pass the additional cost of insurance on to the buyer, they should include it in the shipping & handling charge.
Also, part of the overall responsibility of the seller is the proper packaging of the item. Over 90% of damage claims result in "inadequate packaging". That is totally the seller's fault.
If I am the seller and have shipped the goods and buyer did not request insurance then I am assuming riks of loss passed to the buyer when I shipped the goods and I would expect the buyer to understand they assumed that risk by not purchasing insurance. I am not a lawyer so I don't know who might when on this point if action were taken.
That aside, there is the right thing to do side of the argument. Playing devil's advocate, how am I to know that if I shipped you something and then you tell me you did not receive it but really did. I can understand the seller being skeptical even with good feedback. I think the answer here is get the insurance because you cannot always perdict what any seller's response would be to this circumstance.
Collecting Tony Perez PSA and Rookie Baseball PSA
I would say the buyer should get their money back, since the seller had no proof of any such mailed item.
My seller was not skeptical. He belived me. He just felt that I should share in the loss.
I did not reply to him. I then am now speaking in general terms.
If I buy somthing from HSN and it does not arrive, or arrives broken they refund my card or send another.
Whay makes ebay any differently? also Fwiw I purchased through an ebay store. if that matters.
I as a seller always use del conf. and if needed i insure. If a buyer does not receive an item from me ( never has happened yet) I reimburse period.
Steve
Allen, I have heard that the disclaimer is not within ebay policy, are you sure that it will hold up? my whole point here is if sellers are so worried about an item getting to its destination then charge for insurance. do not leave it up to the buyer. In my case I did not even see that the unsurance was optional as it is not written as dark as if it was required. ever notice that? plus shipping w/o insurance opens up all sorts of cans of worms.
<< <i>I put a disclaimer in my listings that if you choose not to insure your item I am not responsible for it being lost, stolen, damaged, etc. >>
Yes, but the disclaimer means nothing! Read Ebay's policy for sellers.
Insurance for a $100 card is $3.35. On top of that you can't use a bubble envelope, you have to use a box.
Add in the postage and delivery tracking, and we are talking about $5-$6 S&H for a $100 card.
How many of you pay $6 to ship one card?
<< <i>
If I buy somthing from HSN and it does not arrive, or arrives broken they refund my card or send another.
Whay makes ebay any differently? also Fwiw I purchased through an ebay store. if that matters. >>
Steve >>
This was my point as well. There is no difference, whether its joe blow on ebay or wal-mart.
Matt
1994 Pro Line Live
TheDallasCowboyBackfieldProject
Buyers have 3 days to answer the invoice that you send them.
Steve
The Best
I know they do, and maybe I am impatient, But it's not like you forget you bought an item for over $100 bucks. Maybe I could be a little more patient if it didnt happen so often, But constantly having to remind someone to pay gets old after a while, I think it is just laziness.
I think that Winpitcher is a "scammer" and was just trying to get the cards and his money back - even if only 50%!
Come on guys...
Read between the lines.
it is very possible that the winner placed that bid days ago. he now is away for the weekend. when he gets back he will see your invoice and reply.
patience is a good thing.
Steve
edited to add: damn Mike I never even thought about it that way. you mean since the guy did not buy del conf. and I paid via paypal AMEX I could have had the box and half my money back? Interesting.
<< <i>For those that do not want to read all that drivel:
simply put:
Should a buyer have to take a 50% loss on an item not delivered?
Steve >>
No.
I agree, however that was not my question. my point is a simple one. I pay for an item i expect the item or my money back. how that can be twisted into the level of service one can expect from different venues is beyond me. I paid the seller the amount of shipping he requested.
Steve
<< <i>
<< <i>For those that do not want to read all that drivel:
simply put:
Should a buyer have to take a 50% loss on an item not delivered?
Steve >>
No. >>
Shortest post of the month award and SPOT ON!
Funny thing is Im going through a similar situation as yours right now except my package has not arrived.
I am absolutely on the same page as you regarding this issue and 90% of the time I am a seller on ebay vs buying. If someone wants insurance Ill add it but as far as Im concerned its up to me to package that item so it will not be damaged.I also feel that by accepting paypal as a seller, that any item I ship over 20.00, I add delivery confirmation.Anything over 1000.00 is going registered.
I purchased about 250.00 worth of cards from a very well known seller of raw cards on ebay and paid with paypal. No cards/no package. The seller has a great rep and 1000s of transactions. The weird thing is I have had 1000s of packages delivered to me and never a problem. This package just doesnt show up.very strange.
<< <i>Winpitcher,
Funny thing is Im going through a similar situation as yours right now except my package has not arrived.
I am absolutely on the same page as you regarding this issue and 90% of the time I am a seller on ebay vs buying. If someone wants insurance Ill add it but as far as Im concerned its up to me to package that item so it will not be damaged.I also feel that by accepting paypal as a seller, that any item I ship over 20.00, I add delivery confirmation.Anything over 1000.00 is going registered.
I purchased about 250.00 worth of cards from a very well known seller of raw cards on ebay and paid with paypal. No cards/no package. The seller has a great rep and 1000s of transactions. The weird thing is I have had 1000s of packages delivered to me and never a problem. This package just doesnt show up.very strange. >>
Filing a fraud charge should get his ass in gear.
<< <i>A buyer should not have to insure that an item he/she pays for arrives. that is just lame IMO. >>
It's not just lame, it's the law.
Let's remember people: when a buyer DOES purchase insurance and the package is lost/damaged, who gets the money? The SELLER. Why? Because insurance is there to reimburse the seller after they refund the buyer, that's why. In other words, insurance is there to protect the seller, not the buyer.
Tabe
Best,
Jim
<< <i>I guess I'm the lone wolf out there but why does the post office not have to carry any responsibility in getting it from point a to point b?? >>
Brian
That's a good point. If I buy a refrigerator from Sears and it gets stolen off the back of the truck during delivery - Sears doesn't tell me tuff crap or you should purchase Sears delivery insurance?
Never thought of it exactly that way tho it has been broached in some form in the past.
thanx
mike
I do mostly buying on EBAY and I always pay for insurance on anything I cant afford to eat in the event of loss. Assuming that a seller can produce a shipping reciept for the shipment in question, I don't understand why you guys feel the seller has to bear the consequences of USPS fiascos? He sold the item and shipped it exactly how you paid for shipping it. You could've coughed up the measly $1.30 and been covered.
I guess it's important to add the "I will not assume liability for uninsured shipments" disclaimer so everyones on the same page regarding shipping.
Regards,
Alan
The answer is simple................it is a branch of the Federal Govt.
"I will not assume liability for uninsured shipments" disclaimer
Alan that will not stand up to ebay or paypal policy.
i would have paid the extra 1.30 had the seller instructed me too. he asked for 6.50 so i sent 6.50.
He could have said shipping was 7.80 or 10.00 or whatever amt.
Steve
If you decide you are putting up wares for sale you become a business, weather you are operating out of your basement with a small amount of product or have a 10,000 square foot warehouse with unlimited product makes no difference, the fact is you are a business. Most small sellers are to lazy to research their shipping options. If you are a seller that uses paypal you should use their shipping option online which gives you delivery confirmation for $0.13 free if shipping priority mail. It also sends an automatic e mail to the buyer once you pay for the postage with the DC number. It also keeps a copy of the transaction in your pay pal summary so if there were to be any question you can have pay pal look at their own transaction receipt online within their own site, which resloves alot of issues.
USPS also offer all types of free shipping materials, boxes, envelopes, etc. delivered free to your home. If you sell boxes of cards or bulk cards Priority mail flat rate boxes and envelopes are the way to go you can ship about 10 graded cards in bubble mailers for $4.05 in the envelope and 3-4 boxes of cards in their small flat rate box ( 11" X 8.5" X 5.5) for the same price. They have a larger box (12" X 3.5" X 140) in which you ship up to 70lbs for $8.05 and fits 4 800 count boxes. So now when you see someone shipping a box of cards and charging $7-10 to ship it you know full well they could've have shipped priority 2-3 day delivery for $4.05. USPS will even pick the packages up for you the next day if you schedule the pick up before 1:00 am EST I believe.
As far as insurance goes cost is $1.35 up $50 , $2.30 to $100 and $1.05 per hundred after that and if you are a seller selling items over $50 you should take it out for your own protection.
I always keep a reciept that proves that I shipped the item. Based on that EBAY & paypal policy, I will require insurance from now on. I was unaware of it. I'm not willing to assume USPS risk.
I consider good customer service to be:
(1) Charge actual shipping cost and ship by whatever method the buyer chooses. Insurance optional but buyer assumes risk.
(2) Leave positive feedback immediately for people who pay in a timely manner.
(3) Package the product well so that it won't get crushed during shipping.
(4) Ship quickly.
(5) Keep proof of shipment so that the buyer knows exactly when and how an item was shipped.
When I buy, I pay for insurance on the items. It gives me peace of mind that I will get what I am paying for or my money back. When I sell, I expect the buyer to do the same.
I guess what I am hearing is that most people would prefer that a seller not give a buyer the option for insurance and simply include it in the shipping cost. That's cool with me.
Regards,
Alan
<< <i>If the seller produces a delivery confirmation slip, Paypal will drop this issue. I don't see why the seller should pay for insurance if the buyer doesn't want it (to me delivery confirmation is a given).
Insurance for a $100 card is $3.35. On top of that you can't use a bubble envelope, you have to use a box.
Add in the postage and delivery tracking, and we are talking about $5-$6 S&H for a $100 card.
How many of you pay $6 to ship one card? >>
Insurance on a $100 card is $2.30 not $3.35. You can use a bubble envelope(I've done it many times). So this card would cost around $4. If I charge $4 and the cost is higher, I would "eat" the difference.
Save on ebay with Big Crumbs
ANYBODY charging over $3. to ship a single card should have insurance included no exceptions!
Plus, if I'm paying via Paypal, that is my insurance.
just my .02 FWIW!
<< <i>He could have said shipping was 7.80 or 10.00 or whatever amt. >>
Then that would have created another thread about sellers who charge too much for shipping.
<< <i>
USPS also offer all types of free shipping materials, boxes, envelopes, etc. delivered free to your home. If you sell boxes of cards or bulk cards Priority mail flat rate boxes and envelopes are the way to go you can ship about 10 graded cards in bubble mailers for $4.05 in the envelope and 3-4 boxes of cards in their small flat rate box ( 11" X 8.5" X 5.5) for the same price. They have a larger box (12" X 3.5" X 140) in which you ship up to 70lbs for $8.05 and fits 4 800 count boxes. So now when you see someone shipping a box of cards and charging $7-10 to ship it you know full well they could've have shipped priority 2-3 day delivery for $4.05.
>>
The two sizes of flat rate boxes from USPS are both $8.10.
<< <i>No insurance, no package, no refund. Everyone takes a gamble. Why should the seller be out the card and refund your money. The little guy isn't Walmart or Sears, they have deep pockets. The little guy always has to take it on the chin.
<< <i>He could have said shipping was 7.80 or 10.00 or whatever amt. >>
Then that would have created another thread about sellers who charge too much for shipping. >>
Good luck with that plan if the buyer pays with Paypal.
<< <i>No insurance, no package, no refund. Everyone takes a gamble. Why should the seller be out the card and refund your money. The little guy isn't Walmart or Sears, they have deep pockets. The little guy always has to take it on the chin. >>
1. You better not take pay pal becuase if you can't prove delivery they'll just take the money out of your account regardless.
2. If you want to sell then you should assume responsibility for the items being delivered, it doesn't matter if your Walmart or Fred's bargain basement the responsibility to get the product paid for by the buyer is on the seller not the buyer. Deep pockets have nothing to do with a sellers duties, and first and foremost that is delivering the item as promised.
3. Buying a product from a seller is not a gamble, it is a contractual agreement you have entered into. The 1st part of that agreement is that the buyer pays for the item once they have agreed to buy it. The second part is the seller agrees to deliver it once they have gotten paid. If the item does not arrive and the seller has no proof of sending it, then it is the sellers responsibilty to make the buyer whole.
yeah I forgot they made that change there used to be a $3.85 Flat Rate box now there is onnly the flat rate envelope.
<< <i>As a seller, if the buyer doesn't want insurance -- fine. Then it becomes my responsibility to cover the $0.50 for delivery confirmation. As a seller who accepts PayPal, I would be an idiot of I consistently sold items and had no proof of delivery. This was my initial point. >>
Standing by my original points.
Jay
Why should the buyer be out the card and the money as well?
and no, had the postage been 7.80 or whatever i would have paid it. Doesn't matter if it is a lil or big guy. Someone pays for somthing it is then up to the seller to deliver. Insurance is for the seller not the buyer. It insures that the item gets delivered. Who pays for it is another matter entirely.
Steve
Yes, we expect to be served our food.
Do you buy a Kia and expect the quality of a Lexus?
No, but I expect both to get me from point A to point B
Steve