Rushing yards compiled doesn't = the best running backs. PERIOD.
And if you couldn't tell, I was being facetious, but I wouldn't put him top 50...nope, sorry.
Mediocrity has no place in the hall of fame, either. >>
So then provide a list of your top 50 backs. I don't know what criteria you're using to rank them. It must be some advanced mathmatical formula that factors in championship rings, league MVPs, seasonal league leadership rankings, TD runs, rushing yards, yards per carry, "quality seasons", "value to the team rating", ratio of wins to direct player impact to those wins, etc.
Maybe you need to write a thesis to educate us know nothings in addition to the sports writers who actually vote in the HOFers.
Here is the top 50 in Yards. I'd like to see who he'd put ahead of Bettis.
Please Axtell, reply soon as we are all waiting. You are so smart and these boards would collapse without you.
1. E Smith 18355 2. W Payton 16726 3. B Sanders 15269 4. *C Martin 14101 5. *J Bettis 13662 6. E Dickerson 13259 7. T Dorsett 12739 8. J Brown 12312 9. *M Faulk 12279 10. M Allen 12243 11. F Harris 12120 12. T Thomas 12074 13. J Riggins 11352 14. O Simpson 11236 15. R Watters 10643 16. E George 10441 17. *C Dillon 10429 18. O Anderson 10273 19. E Campbell 9407 20. *E James 9226 21. *T Barber 8786 22. T Allen 8614 23. J Taylor 8597 24. J Perry 8378 25. *F Taylor 8367 26. *W Dunn 8321 27. E Byner 8261 28. H Walker 8225 29. R Craig 8189 30. G Riggs 8188 31. L Csonka 8081 32. F McNeil 8074 33. *P Holmes 8035 34. G Hearst 7966 35. J Brooks 7962 36. *S Davis 7875 37. *S Alexander 7817 38. C Warren 7696 39. T Davis 7607 40. *A Green 7432 41. M Pruitt 7378 42. *L Tomlinson 7361 43. L Kelly 7274 44. G Rogers 7176 45. C Garner 7097 46. *R Williams 7097 47. R Hampton 6897 48. *A Smith 6881 49. C Warner 6844 50. R Smith 6818
So you guys have been missing my point, all along.
A rusher's total lifetime yardage has nothing to do with his quality as a back. Would you rather have Bettis on your team or Jim Brown? What about Terrel Davis?
You Bettis backers are so hung up on 'he's got the fifth highest rushing yards ever!'
He never dominated, never was a force, never was a player teams had to gameplan against (unlike REAL RBs like Tomlinson, Alexander, or any of a ton of other RBs).
I'll put together my list tonight after work, and I'll keep my fans breathlessly waiting for it.
1). For starters, there are apporximately 18-23 players on that rushing list who are/were better football players than Bettis. That isn't counting guys who are not on the list like Lenny Moore or Gayle Sayers(among some more) who were also better.
2).That all-time rushing yardage list by no means should be the determination on who is a better running back...for a few reasons:
-----A. Not all players got to play their entire career with a 16 game schedule. The implications of that should be obvious.
-----B. Previous eras had rules that leaned more towards the defensive side of the game, as opposed to Bettis's time where all rule changes help the offense move the ball. The implications of that should be obvious as well.
-----C. Total rushing yards by a running back isn't the entire equation. Receiving yardage plays a large role as well. As does blocking of course.
-----D. Then being a compiler as opposed to a dominator also plays an unfair role. That is a longer topic that can be discussed later.
3). Being that the list provided contains appx 18-23 running backs who were better than Bettis AND being that almost all those better guys played in the Super Bowl era (1966-now), that puts Jerome Bettis as approximately the 20th best running back in the last 40 years. What does that mean?
-----A. How would one view the 20th best First Basemen from 1966 to now? How would one view the 20th best Basketbal Center from 1966 - now? THose answers should be obvious. Heck, the 20th best First Basemen of ALL TIME isn't even viewed as a Hall of Famer, and that goes back far longer than the time period we are talking about.
-----B. Contemporaries of Bettis who are/will be better than him include, Emmitt, Sanders, Martin, Faulk, T. Thomas, E. James, T. Barber, Priest Holmes, S. Alexander, Terrell Davis, and L.T. That is ELEVEN guys. Maybe one or two may not be, but Ricky Williams, Clinton Portis, and Corey Dillon may take their place anyway. So it will reasonably be that Bettis is the 12th best back of his contemporaries.
4) Bettis's best finsihes in all purpose yards are 3rd, 4th, and 4th. He had three all-pro caliber years, one of which close to MVP caliber year. The rest were either ho-hum or below average.
------A. Thousand yard seasons? A thousand yards is nothing special in a 16 game schedule. 1,250 yards is the benchmark for a 16 game schedule, not 1,000. He did that four times. Was within a 100 yards of that only one other time. And it wasn't as if he was getting receiving yards those years to make up the difference. It isn't like his yards per carry were out of this world either.
------B. TOUCHDOWNS. The RBI of Running backs! Very teammate dependant. Bettis's years where he had lack of touchdowns was primarily due to lack of good touchdown opportunitites. He was an accomplished short yardage back, and unless somebody could show that he wasn't able to punch it in from the one yard line an inordinate amount of times those years, then I would chalk that up to his team simply not being in that position very often.
5) Conclusion: People will still stare at his high ranking on that list because it is the simple thing to do. Before you do that, imagine the list if ALL RB's of all time played under the circumstaces of Points 1a, and 1b of this post? Then addd the receving yardage factor too. You would get a different view for sure.....or just wait 20 more years when he gets swallowed up on that list from guys playing in the same era. As for the Hall of Fame? If somebody wishes to put the 12th best RB among his contemporaries into the hall of fame, then that is their choice. But to be fair, the 12th best backs of all era's have a rightful claim too. Canton may get to be a crowded place.
Really? Please define to me what a hall of famer is in your eyes.
A middle of the pack back who stays around for a long time, compiles long term numbers but never owns the league?
<< <i> He may not have been one of the best talent wise. But so what!! Professional sports are filled with super talented individuals who will never get into the HOF because of their short careers. Bo Jackson is probably the most talented running back I ever saw play. So what! >>
So basically you'd rather have a player who is boring and mediocre that can hang around a long time? Ok, just making sure.
<< <i> What the OP is basically trying to say is that it doesn't matter that Bettis rushed for all those yards, or that Bettis had so many years of solid to significant contribution, his ring does not matter, nor his 91TDs, nor his dominating short yardage play, nor his great personality and dedication to the game, nor his team player attitude, nor his longevity, nor his ability to plow over defensive players, nor all of the victories that his teams have had, etc. When you put it that way, maybe he isn't a HOF. >>
Hmm significant contribution for so many years? Can you please point this out to me? I've been poring over his stats and can't seem to find it. HIS ring? You mean the ring his team gave him? Williw Parker breaking off a 75 yard run that Bettis never could have done in his career? 91 TDs, yet never had more than 13 in a season, and got double digits just TWICE? Great personality has no bearing on a player's worth to a team. TO has multiple teams banging down his door, and he's the epitome of 'bad team player'. Dedication to the game, or dedication to padding his stats? Team player attitude? That affects your hall elligibilty how again? Longevity? So sticking around but never dominating is hall worthiness? Plow over defensive players? Mike Alstott did that as well as anybody over the past decade, you don't see this Bucs fan clamoring for his HoF induction, do you? Victories his team had? That's right, his TEAM.
You're right, you are confused. All the things you point as to why he should be in the hall are skewed.
Axtell, perhaps I missed it elsewhere in the thread, but please list some worthy running backs in the HOF, some worthy ones not in or not in yet, and some unworthy ones that have made it. I am interested to see your perspective.
O.J. Anderson was a better back among his contemporaries than Bettis is/was among his....yet does Anderson ever get mentioned ? I am not going to break down the top 50 list, because I agree that it means nothing in todays day in age. Just wait 10 more years, and you wont see a single guy that played before 1980 on that list, just like you wont see a QB with career passing yards on the top 50 who played years ago...the game today is centered on offensive stats, particularly from the glamour positions, QB, RB, WR.....the big $$ and contracts go to those guys, therefore the game will be tilted to favor their production numbers.
The only measurement IMO is how a player compares and stands among his contemporaries, and Bettis just doesnt rise above at least 8 or 10 RB's during his own time.
"The other teams could make trouble for us if they win." -- Yogi Berra
Comments
<< <i>You just, don't get it, do you?
Rushing yards compiled doesn't = the best running backs. PERIOD.
And if you couldn't tell, I was being facetious, but I wouldn't put him top 50...nope, sorry.
Mediocrity has no place in the hall of fame, either. >>
So then provide a list of your top 50 backs. I don't know what criteria you're using to rank them. It must be some advanced mathmatical formula that factors in championship rings, league MVPs, seasonal league leadership rankings, TD runs, rushing yards, yards per carry, "quality seasons", "value to the team rating", ratio of wins to direct player impact to those wins, etc.
Maybe you need to write a thesis to educate us know nothings in addition to the sports writers who actually vote in the HOFers.
Please Axtell, reply soon as we are all waiting. You are so smart and these boards would collapse without you.
1. E Smith 18355
2. W Payton 16726
3. B Sanders 15269
4. *C Martin 14101
5. *J Bettis 13662
6. E Dickerson 13259
7. T Dorsett 12739
8. J Brown 12312
9. *M Faulk 12279
10. M Allen 12243
11. F Harris 12120
12. T Thomas 12074
13. J Riggins 11352
14. O Simpson 11236
15. R Watters 10643
16. E George 10441
17. *C Dillon 10429
18. O Anderson 10273
19. E Campbell 9407
20. *E James 9226
21. *T Barber 8786
22. T Allen 8614
23. J Taylor 8597
24. J Perry 8378
25. *F Taylor 8367
26. *W Dunn 8321
27. E Byner 8261
28. H Walker 8225
29. R Craig 8189
30. G Riggs 8188
31. L Csonka 8081
32. F McNeil 8074
33. *P Holmes 8035
34. G Hearst 7966
35. J Brooks 7962
36. *S Davis 7875
37. *S Alexander 7817
38. C Warren 7696
39. T Davis 7607
40. *A Green 7432
41. M Pruitt 7378
42. *L Tomlinson 7361
43. L Kelly 7274
44. G Rogers 7176
45. C Garner 7097
46. *R Williams 7097
47. R Hampton 6897
48. *A Smith 6881
49. C Warner 6844
50. R Smith 6818
I even provided a list of names for you to rearrange. Of course you'll have to take Bettis off this list and add someone else.
A rusher's total lifetime yardage has nothing to do with his quality as a back. Would you rather have Bettis on your team or Jim Brown? What about Terrel Davis?
You Bettis backers are so hung up on 'he's got the fifth highest rushing yards ever!'
He never dominated, never was a force, never was a player teams had to gameplan against (unlike REAL RBs like Tomlinson, Alexander, or any of a ton of other RBs).
I'll put together my list tonight after work, and I'll keep my fans breathlessly waiting for it.
<< <i>ll put together my list tonight after work, and I'll keep my fans breathlessly waiting for it. >>
I can't wait.
<< <i>
<< <i>ll put together my list tonight after work, and I'll keep my fans breathlessly waiting for it. >>
I can't wait. >>
Like I said, I know my biggest fans (and you are among them) would be.
Sheesh.
2).That all-time rushing yardage list by no means should be the determination on who is a better running back...for a few reasons:
-----A. Not all players got to play their entire career with a 16 game schedule. The implications of that should be obvious.
-----B. Previous eras had rules that leaned more towards the defensive side of the game, as opposed to Bettis's time where all rule changes help the offense move the ball. The implications of that should be obvious as well.
-----C. Total rushing yards by a running back isn't the entire equation. Receiving yardage plays a large role as well. As does blocking of course.
-----D. Then being a compiler as opposed to a dominator also plays an unfair role. That is a longer topic that can be discussed later.
3). Being that the list provided contains appx 18-23 running backs who were better than Bettis AND being that almost all those better guys played in the Super Bowl era (1966-now), that puts Jerome Bettis as approximately the 20th best running back in the last 40 years. What does that mean?
-----A. How would one view the 20th best First Basemen from 1966 to now? How would one view the 20th best Basketbal Center from 1966 - now? THose answers should be obvious. Heck, the 20th best First Basemen of ALL TIME isn't even viewed as a Hall of Famer, and that goes back far longer than the time period we are talking about.
-----B. Contemporaries of Bettis who are/will be better than him include, Emmitt, Sanders, Martin, Faulk, T. Thomas, E. James, T. Barber, Priest Holmes, S. Alexander, Terrell Davis, and L.T. That is ELEVEN guys. Maybe one or two may not be, but Ricky Williams, Clinton Portis, and Corey Dillon may take their place anyway. So it will reasonably be that Bettis is the 12th best back of his contemporaries.
4) Bettis's best finsihes in all purpose yards are 3rd, 4th, and 4th. He had three all-pro caliber years, one of which close to MVP caliber year. The rest were either ho-hum or below average.
------A. Thousand yard seasons? A thousand yards is nothing special in a 16 game schedule. 1,250 yards is the benchmark for a 16 game schedule, not 1,000. He did that four times. Was within a 100 yards of that only one other time. And it wasn't as if he was getting receiving yards those years to make up the difference. It isn't like his yards per carry were out of this world either.
------B. TOUCHDOWNS. The RBI of Running backs! Very teammate dependant. Bettis's years where he had lack of touchdowns was primarily due to lack of good touchdown opportunitites. He was an accomplished short yardage back, and unless somebody could show that he wasn't able to punch it in from the one yard line an inordinate amount of times those years, then I would chalk that up to his team simply not being in that position very often.
5) Conclusion: People will still stare at his high ranking on that list because it is the simple thing to do. Before you do that, imagine the list if ALL RB's of all time played under the circumstaces of Points 1a, and 1b of this post? Then addd the receving yardage factor too. You would get a different view for sure.....or just wait 20 more years when he gets swallowed up on that list from guys playing in the same era. As for the Hall of Fame? If somebody wishes to put the 12th best RB among his contemporaries into the hall of fame, then that is their choice. But to be fair, the 12th best backs of all era's have a rightful claim too. Canton may get to be a crowded place.
<< <i>Kettle? >>
Clown.
<< <i>Stop it. >>
Uhm, no...do you enjoy being a pest? You do it quite well.
Clown.
<< <i>Uhm, no...do you enjoy being a pest? You do it quite well. >>
Not my intention. I just think you've lost it and need help.
No, really I do.
But I assure you, I'm quite well. I am sure you were concerned about my well-being.
ABSOLUTELY
<< <i>Where is your top 50? >>
Where's your brain? You've obviously lost it with your inane postings...you've been waiting all day for it!
hah!
<< <i>you've been waiting all day for it! >>
Of course, what else would I be doing?
<< <i>First ballot. No doubt. >>
Really? Please define to me what a hall of famer is in your eyes.
A middle of the pack back who stays around for a long time, compiles long term numbers but never owns the league?
<< <i>
He may not have been one of the best talent wise. But so what!! Professional sports are filled with super talented individuals who will never get into the HOF because of their short careers. Bo Jackson is probably the most talented running back I ever saw play. So what! >>
So basically you'd rather have a player who is boring and mediocre that can hang around a long time? Ok, just making sure.
<< <i>
What the OP is basically trying to say is that it doesn't matter that Bettis rushed for all those yards, or that Bettis had so many years of solid to significant contribution, his ring does not matter, nor his 91TDs, nor his dominating short yardage play, nor his great personality and dedication to the game, nor his team player attitude, nor his longevity, nor his ability to plow over defensive players, nor all of the victories that his teams have had, etc. When you put it that way, maybe he isn't a HOF.
Hmm significant contribution for so many years? Can you please point this out to me? I've been poring over his stats and can't seem to find it.
HIS ring? You mean the ring his team gave him? Williw Parker breaking off a 75 yard run that Bettis never could have done in his career?
91 TDs, yet never had more than 13 in a season, and got double digits just TWICE?
Great personality has no bearing on a player's worth to a team. TO has multiple teams banging down his door, and he's the epitome of 'bad team player'.
Dedication to the game, or dedication to padding his stats?
Team player attitude? That affects your hall elligibilty how again?
Longevity? So sticking around but never dominating is hall worthiness?
Plow over defensive players? Mike Alstott did that as well as anybody over the past decade, you don't see this Bucs fan clamoring for his HoF induction, do you?
Victories his team had? That's right, his TEAM.
You're right, you are confused. All the things you point as to why he should be in the hall are skewed.
End of story.
The only measurement IMO is how a player compares and stands among his contemporaries, and Bettis just doesnt rise above at least 8 or 10 RB's during his own time.
-- Yogi Berra