rana, Hey! Hope all is well! Here's the answers to your questions:
The Global Holder is truly tamperproof; I can't even do anything with it! There is NO qualifier for a pack. I think that when Kieth Smith did that, he was about to fall asleep nearing his 5,000th pack for the day! A pack is NEVER just 90% bad. It's 100% Good or 100% Bad, that's all. If bad, it's returned to the submitter unslabbed. Grading a wax box is determined by: 75% condition of the packs themselves and 25% condition of the empty box. I just placed an order for oversized holders, all sizes, and tripled our supply - All is well now.
Good group of questions, I hope I was of help! Thanks, Ryan
Wax From The Past Ryan Rutter Owner Cleveland, OH (614)946-4000
Global Authentication INC. Ryan Rutter MASTER Authenticator Of Unopened Irvine, CA (949)474-1557
GAI Authorized Dealer PSA Authorized Dealer
Sports Collectors Digest 13 Year Perfect Customer Service Award
I personally think that your intentions are good however, the remaining parts of your original posts are self-serving, It looks like you are trying to excuse what happened to the 67 pack as not your mistake, and attempting to assure people here that since you joined global that the quality of the authentic packs has gone up with the amount of resealed/tampered packs has gone down.
I THINK that you approached this incorrectly, Had you come on the boards simply stated that you understand a bogus pack was opened by one of the board members and you as an authenticator at GAI would like to reimburse this person for the mistake and left it at that, I can almost assure you that the "pissing contest" you are now in would never had developed.
board members here, while tough, do applaud anyone who comes on here and makes right a wrong that was done. Had Steve Hart seen the original post and saw it was something he sold, steve would not look for the fanfare, he would quietly get in touch with the person and make good on the situation. I would almost bet that the person you/GAI made good would have come on here and sung your prasies had you approached it that way.
There is NO DOUBT that you are one of only a few people in the area of Grading/Authenticating Packs that exist on this planet, and while many here may or maynot want to invest in that material, it is up to each collector to make that decision. People who know about that area know the good ones, and the good ones just stay calm, stand by what they sell, get accolades within the field based on time and experience and deals, without having to stand up and say "LOOK AT ME". Bill Gates and Warren Buffett dont say "hey do you know how rich I am?" rather, they let others tell others how rich they are.
I am glad and impressed you sought out the person done wrong, and are going to make it right, It was admirable, and a testament to GAI and you for doing it. It is reassuring that you wern't involved in the pack in question, I am glad that Global has someone of your knowledge in place taking care of the packs.
But take my advice, let others here or in the hobby sing your praises, it sounds much better than you doing it.
Since I have been accused of "picking apart" the thread I will now do so.
Originally Ryan you claimed that since you have been at global no resealed packs have been authenticated. You go on and state that you are the only person in the entire world that can authenticate such packs and therefore by implication you have then created doubt on any packs authenticated before you're arrival. I (at the time) did not think that way. Actually I took it as it was said (or what I thought you meant) That you can only vouch for packs that you had authenticated. Now however with the reply to mantlefan I can't but wonder if in fact all the packs graded before you are questionable.
By stating that you are the ONLY PERSON that can authenticate 100 percent of the time seriously puts into doubt all packs authenticated before you got there.
Come on now - how can anyone who is mortal consider themselves to be 100% infallible on anything. Sounds like arrogance. I certainly don't want to add fuel to the fire here or impugn waxfromthepast, please don't take this the wrong way. Just say that you do your best every day and if one falls through the cracks - that is what the money-back guarantee is for - that sounds fair enough to me. Merry Christmas to all and to this arguement - goodnight. Rich
Let me clarify. The last authenticator was 99.99% correct, I'm 100% correct. Sorry for the confusion and I'm logging off now.
That's absurd. 99.99% means 1 mistake out of 10,000....and that mistake just happens to show up here on this board??? Stop making up numbers to suit your own purposes.
Nobody is 100% guaranteed accurate on anything in this hobby...cards, packs, autographs, game-used etc. Ask Spence, ask Joe Orlando, ask Dave Forman, hell, even ask your bosses Steve and Mike. Stop kidding yourself...you're dealing with hobby veterans here and we're not that gullible.
Ryan has contacted me with respect to the '62 wax pack and asked that I send him the remains of it for a refund. Obviously, I have no problem at all with him coming to these boards to help bxb and myself, whether that be an effort to restore collector's faith in GAI pack grading or whatever. Thank you Ryan. Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to all!
I had no problem either with him coming to the boards trying to help you and bxb. Although a PM would have been proper IMO. less fanfare that way.
What i had a problem with was his spamming of his company and his asserting that he is infallable with regards to authenticating unopened product. (Even if it is so) which I doubt.
I am glad that you will be made whole regarding the bum GA! pack that you bought.
I echo Steve's sentiments precisely. There's nothing wrong with what the guy did for you and I think it's great. There is some sort of proverb about the grace of giving without fanfare or something like that - this was definitely not an example of that.
Mark (amerbbcards)
"All evil needs to triumph is for good men to do nothing."
So do I. I actually hated even commenting at all in this thread, but then I read things like this from Ryan -
<< <i>Only I can guarantee that a pack is 100% legit; >>
Only you? No one else? Was there a pack legitimacy course in college that only you attended?
As Mantlefan said, save this rhetoric for less experienced collectors. I really have no issue with waxfromthepast, but this entire thread comes off as arrogant and self-serving. Even if, as I'm sure, it wasn't his intent.
Nice to see that people who have already been burned by opening bogus GAI graded packs are at least getting some promises to made whole ( for whatever those promises may be worth ),
but since most folks won't even open their sealed packs till much later on down the line, what good are all the promises and guarantees then if the new, relatively unestablished company GAI is no longer in business ?
Seems like it's all still nothing but a big crapshoot ...
As i said in another post. I received 900.+ refund/credit which was left up to me. This stemmed from 6 packs i bought in the last maestro or huggins auction i think. They were 71 and 72 cello 12 ct packs that Steve at BBCX told me might not be legit. I called and spoke to Steve Rocchi who took care of it through Ryan. Within 2 weeks i was made whole and had an explanation as to what happened.
Now i make no bones about my preference to GAI. But that is because of the problams with being out in the open with issue's that PSA tends to ignore or swat away. THAT is very important to me as a relativly small collector because as we all know issue's do happen from time to time. I will always buy PSA as i believe they are just as good and accurate for gradeing as SGC or GAI. And yes they do bring higher dollars than either one at auction time except in the early T and caramel stuff. Than the gap seems to narrow substantialy.
Imho i would feel comfortable buying any of there holders BUT honesty and being able to admit mistakes goes a long way for me and SGC/GAI have this in spades over PSA.
I think Ryan is trying to do the right thing and is a good guy with a bit of an ego. Not a big deal, we all have ego's and quirks.
His 100% statement is a bit much. I remember spending a lot of money on Ryan's packs in the late 90's at the Gilbralter shows in Detroit. At that time, he would call Murphy for advice. I guess Murphy has digressed since then and Rutter has improved? In any case, I personally liked the guy, but have not spoken to him since 2000 or so. His ego may have gone out of control after he quit doing the Gilbralter shows, surpassed Murphy in knowledge and has buying sprees of $750,000 at the National and another $400,000 at Ft. Washington?
I would like to see Ryan rate pack authenticators: Ryan Rutter, Mark Murphy, Steve Hart, Write in Candidate - What is your perceived order of knowledge?
Hello everyone! I hope all had a nice holiday! Let me correct myself on my lofty post earlier in the week. Nobody can be 100% sure about unopened, not even me. Even a computer can make mistakes; they're produced by humans. So, all I'll say is that Global feels that I'm the best suited for the job, that's all. Happy New Year!!! -Ryan
Wax From The Past Ryan Rutter Owner Cleveland, OH (614)946-4000
Global Authentication INC. Ryan Rutter MASTER Authenticator Of Unopened Irvine, CA (949)474-1557
GAI Authorized Dealer PSA Authorized Dealer
Sports Collectors Digest 13 Year Perfect Customer Service Award
Thanks Ryan for your correction. You had us questioning your sanity and thinking you had too much eggnog. I think you'll find people here are very reasonable and are willing to accept corrections and move on, respecting you as an authenticator and reliable source of advice here on the boards. I'm sure you'll see some of my packs passing over your desk (unless PSA gets their act together very soon)... Good luck with your new job.
Hate to dredge up an old thread but...just got back in town and would love to ask a couple of questions.
Ryan,
Could you give us your take on the 58 cellos that are causing so much heat. I have a few of both isssues that you referred to. I am convinced that something is wrong here. The different seals that you referred to is a legit concern. Different thickness of cellophane, different seal directions, all the thicker cellos come from the same series. As a matter of fact I have yet to see anything in question that is not from that series. I have opened two of the questionable cellos and found tell tail signs of reseals...different finishes, different gloss loss, miscuts, stains discoloring on some cards -not others, I remember when these hit the ebay market, they all came from the same seller who had submitted them all (a full box) to GAI. Most seasoned collectors of cello agree that these are misgraded and are indeed reseals that slipped by GAI. Would love to hear your thoughts. By the way, I'm not the one who sends the emails. I'm sure I know considerably less than you when authenticating, but I have been dealing in 50 and 60s cellos for 10 years and have a similar collection to you. Just concerned here about GAIs past hit and miss ratio.
Comments
Hey! Hope all is well! Here's the answers to your questions:
The Global Holder is truly tamperproof; I can't even do anything with it!
There is NO qualifier for a pack. I think that when Kieth Smith did that, he was about to fall asleep nearing his 5,000th pack for the day!
A pack is NEVER just 90% bad. It's 100% Good or 100% Bad, that's all. If bad, it's returned to the submitter unslabbed.
Grading a wax box is determined by: 75% condition of the packs themselves and 25% condition of the empty box.
I just placed an order for oversized holders, all sizes, and tripled our supply - All is well now.
Good group of questions, I hope I was of help! Thanks, Ryan
Ryan Rutter
Owner
Cleveland, OH
(614)946-4000
Global Authentication INC.
Ryan Rutter
MASTER Authenticator Of Unopened
Irvine, CA
(949)474-1557
GAI Authorized Dealer
PSA Authorized Dealer
Sports Collectors Digest 13 Year Perfect Customer Service Award
I've gotta hit the madness at the mall, I'll be on later and thank you, -Ryan
Ryan Rutter
Owner
Cleveland, OH
(614)946-4000
Global Authentication INC.
Ryan Rutter
MASTER Authenticator Of Unopened
Irvine, CA
(949)474-1557
GAI Authorized Dealer
PSA Authorized Dealer
Sports Collectors Digest 13 Year Perfect Customer Service Award
I personally think that your intentions are good however, the remaining parts of your original posts are self-serving, It looks like you are trying to excuse what happened to the 67 pack as not your mistake, and attempting to assure people here that since you joined global that the quality of the authentic packs has gone up with the amount of resealed/tampered packs has gone down.
I THINK that you approached this incorrectly, Had you come on the boards simply stated that you understand a bogus pack was opened by one of the board members and you as an authenticator at GAI would like to reimburse this person for the mistake and left it at that, I can almost assure you that the "pissing contest" you are now in would never had developed.
board members here, while tough, do applaud anyone who comes on here and makes right a wrong that was done. Had Steve Hart seen the original post and saw it was something he sold, steve would not look for the fanfare, he would quietly get in touch with the person and make good on the situation. I would almost bet that the person you/GAI made good would have come on here and sung your prasies had you approached it that way.
There is NO DOUBT that you are one of only a few people in the area of Grading/Authenticating Packs that exist on this planet, and while many here may or maynot want to invest in that material, it is up to each collector to make that decision. People who know about that area know the good ones, and the good ones just stay calm, stand by what they sell, get accolades within the field based on time and experience and deals, without having to stand up and say "LOOK AT ME".
Bill Gates and Warren Buffett dont say "hey do you know how rich I am?" rather, they let others tell others how rich they are.
I am glad and impressed you sought out the person done wrong, and are going to make it right, It was admirable, and a testament to GAI and you for doing it. It is reassuring that you wern't involved in the pack in question, I am glad that Global has someone of your knowledge in place taking care of the packs.
But take my advice, let others here or in the hobby sing your praises, it sounds much better than you doing it.
Link To Scanned 1952 Topps Cards Set is now 90% Complete Plus Slideshows of the 52 Set
Originally Ryan you claimed that since you have been at global no resealed packs have been authenticated. You go on and state that you are the only person in the entire world that can authenticate such packs and therefore by implication you have then created doubt on any packs authenticated before you're arrival. I (at the time) did not think that way. Actually I took it as it was said (or what I thought you meant) That you can only vouch for packs that you had authenticated. Now however with the reply to mantlefan I can't but wonder if in fact all the packs graded before you are questionable.
By stating that you are the ONLY PERSON that can authenticate 100 percent of the time seriously puts into doubt all packs authenticated before you got there.
Steve
<< <i>Talking about spam - why is it so popular in Hawii?
mike >>
If you've ever tried poi you'd know why spam (and anything else) is considered a delicacy.
"All evil needs to triumph is for good men to do nothing."
Ryan, is someone impersonating me? You said you contacted me, but we have not discussed this situation yet.
Anyway, I did receive one PM, but it was not from Ryan.
Happy Holidays to all.
I apologize for going about it the wrong way in your eyes. Again, just trying to help, and Steve and I do things differently.
Ryan Rutter
Owner
Cleveland, OH
(614)946-4000
Global Authentication INC.
Ryan Rutter
MASTER Authenticator Of Unopened
Irvine, CA
(949)474-1557
GAI Authorized Dealer
PSA Authorized Dealer
Sports Collectors Digest 13 Year Perfect Customer Service Award
Let me clarify. The last authenticator was 99.99% correct, I'm 100% correct. Sorry for the confusion and I'm logging off now.
Ryan Rutter
Owner
Cleveland, OH
(614)946-4000
Global Authentication INC.
Ryan Rutter
MASTER Authenticator Of Unopened
Irvine, CA
(949)474-1557
GAI Authorized Dealer
PSA Authorized Dealer
Sports Collectors Digest 13 Year Perfect Customer Service Award
one more thing
the title suggests that bxb had a problem with a 62 pack, he didn't
kurtman did.
bxb had a problem with a 67 pack
just more confusion i guess.
SD
edited typo
Rich
That's absurd. 99.99% means 1 mistake out of 10,000....and that mistake just happens to show up here on this board??? Stop making up numbers to suit your own purposes.
Nobody is 100% guaranteed accurate on anything in this hobby...cards, packs, autographs, game-used etc. Ask Spence, ask Joe Orlando, ask Dave Forman, hell, even ask your bosses Steve and Mike. Stop kidding yourself...you're dealing with hobby veterans here and we're not that gullible.
Always looking for 1957 Topps BB in PSA 9!
<< <i>i can do 140%.. >>
Funny; I was going to say mine goes to 11....
"All evil needs to triumph is for good men to do nothing."
My ebay listings
What i had a problem with was his spamming of his company and his asserting that he is infallable with regards to authenticating unopened product. (Even if it is so) which I doubt.
I am glad that you will be made whole regarding the bum GA! pack that you bought.
Steve
"All evil needs to triumph is for good men to do nothing."
<< <i>Only I can guarantee that a pack is 100% legit; >>
Only you? No one else? Was there a pack legitimacy course in college that only you attended?
As Mantlefan said, save this rhetoric for less experienced collectors. I really have no issue with waxfromthepast, but this entire thread comes off as arrogant and self-serving. Even if, as I'm sure, it wasn't his intent.
Nice to see that people who have already been burned by opening bogus GAI graded packs
are at least getting some promises to made whole ( for whatever those promises may be worth ),
but since most folks won't even open their sealed packs till much later on down the line,
what good are all the promises and guarantees then if the new, relatively unestablished company GAI is no longer in business ?
Seems like it's all still nothing but a big crapshoot ...
"How about a little fire Scarecrow ?"
Now i make no bones about my preference to GAI. But that is because of the problams with being out in the open with issue's that PSA tends to ignore or swat away. THAT is very important to me as a relativly small collector because as we all know issue's do happen from time to time. I will always buy PSA as i believe they are just as good and accurate for gradeing as SGC or GAI. And yes they do bring higher dollars than either one at auction time except in the early T and caramel stuff. Than the gap seems to narrow substantialy.
Imho i would feel comfortable buying any of there holders BUT honesty and being able to admit mistakes goes a long way for me and SGC/GAI have this in spades over PSA.
T206's are always being bought.
aloof1003@comcast.net
His 100% statement is a bit much. I remember spending a lot of money on Ryan's packs in the late 90's at the Gilbralter shows in Detroit. At that time, he would call Murphy for advice. I guess Murphy has digressed since then and Rutter has improved? In any case, I personally liked the guy, but have not spoken to him since 2000 or so. His ego may have gone out of control after he quit doing the Gilbralter shows, surpassed Murphy in knowledge and has buying sprees of $750,000 at the National and another $400,000 at Ft. Washington?
I would like to see Ryan rate pack authenticators: Ryan Rutter, Mark Murphy, Steve Hart, Write in Candidate - What is your perceived order of knowledge?
Ryan Rutter
Owner
Cleveland, OH
(614)946-4000
Global Authentication INC.
Ryan Rutter
MASTER Authenticator Of Unopened
Irvine, CA
(949)474-1557
GAI Authorized Dealer
PSA Authorized Dealer
Sports Collectors Digest 13 Year Perfect Customer Service Award
Have a prosperous 06 Ryan and good luck too.
Steve
<< <i> Let me correct myself on my lofty post earlier in the week. Nobody can be 100% sure about unopened, not even me. >>
That's all we're saying - welcome back to the human race. Good luck to you Ryan.
"All evil needs to triumph is for good men to do nothing."
Ryan Rutter
Owner
Cleveland, OH
(614)946-4000
Global Authentication INC.
Ryan Rutter
MASTER Authenticator Of Unopened
Irvine, CA
(949)474-1557
GAI Authorized Dealer
PSA Authorized Dealer
Sports Collectors Digest 13 Year Perfect Customer Service Award
Ryan,
Could you give us your take on the 58 cellos that are causing so much heat. I have a few of both isssues that you referred to. I am convinced that something is wrong here. The different seals that you referred to is a legit concern. Different thickness of cellophane, different seal directions, all the thicker cellos come from the same series. As a matter of fact I have yet to see anything in question that is not from that series. I have opened two of the questionable cellos and found tell tail signs of reseals...different finishes, different gloss loss, miscuts, stains discoloring on some cards -not others, I remember when these hit the ebay market, they all came from the same seller who had submitted them all (a full box) to GAI. Most seasoned collectors of cello agree that these are misgraded and are indeed reseals that slipped by GAI. Would love to hear your thoughts. By the way, I'm not the one who sends the emails. I'm sure I know considerably less than you when authenticating, but I have been dealing in 50 and 60s cellos for 10 years and have a similar collection to you. Just concerned here about GAIs past hit and miss ratio.
Terry