as i read your post i see some very conflicting statements..for example
you say this
>>>>In high end Saints and $10 Indians I will always buy a nice NGC coin and attempt to cross it over if its nice>>>
then
this
>>>>Is it the finest known? Who knows and who cares?
mmmmmmmif you crossed it it looks like you cared!!!!
>>>Basically 90% of PCGS coins are correctly graded whereas let's say 70% of NGC coins are correctly graded.>>>>
so what your saying is basically 4 out of 5 ngc coins are graded at pcgs standards.....and you would rather pay more in a pcgs holder....and i know why....could it be that collectors are really good enough graders....not...its ego....if it werent ego then just buy so so coins...no one will ever know .....except your peers who might look down theri noses at you
>>So that is one of the disparities and what causes the PCGS preference....>>>
yep and its called being the first service...arming yourself with 80 market makers....and marketing
>>>Dealers love to buy a great looking MS65 Saint and then somehow miraculously get it into a NGC 66 holder>>>>
why would you say miracously????im lost here...have you ever heard of gradflation.....exactly what is it....venture a guess
PLEASE BE ADVISED TO THIS RULE**************
WHAT THE SERVICES ARE DOING IS RANKING COINS...BY ELEVATING COINS THAT DESERVE TO BE ABOVE OTHERS IN ITS PRESENT GRADE
once you have this tenent down you just need to fill in the blanks.....the blanks are
1) ngc breaks more pop barriers than pcgs....and once broken.... in time the coin(s) go over to pcgs for all the money
segway a few years
2) as the pcgs pop 1 gets more populated...say 10...if you lined them all up...the best now goes over to ngc for the next grade up
3) boom the pop barrier is broken again at ngc and now another pop 1 coin...it could be the same coin..or it could be another..in a perfect world it would be the same coin but this is not a perfect world
segway a few years
4) as the ngc pop grows with a few in the same grade WHILE NOT AS MANY AS BEFORE....... in time the coin(s) go over to pcgs for all the money...AGAIN
these 2 services play against each other to both their benefits as they have figured out how to grade the same coins over and over and over and over again....some coins will be hundred dollar graded 200 to 300 times
I will >>>So you really have to buy the coin, not the holder but with everything else being equal, the market assigns a premium to a PCGS coin an I am fine with that.....pay a premium for a PCGS coin all else being equal....
>>>>>A great example of that would be the Kruthofer 1933 $10 Indian which was in a PCGS MS65 holder but recently was auctioned off by Stack's as a NGC MS66 POP 1 coin.....Is it the finest known? Who knows and who cares?
you should care!!!
>>>So you really have to buy the coin, not the holder
looking at what you have said you have in your collection.... your not getting it...i might step on your toes here anf pi$$ you off but your not getting it......the most important thing for you and your high end coins is..........WHERE DOES MY COIN STAND IN RELATION TO THE REST OF THE COINS IN THE POPULATION
this mandra
>>So you really have to buy the coin, not the holder
is important and counts for most coins...but not your 33 indian....YOU HAVE TO KNOW EXACTLY WHERE YOUR COIN STANDS UP AGAINST THE FIELD
i have made some pcgs pop 1 coins....coins that i have 10 of.....i kept my best in ngc holders and sold off the # 3...4...and 5 coins...and those coins are the best pcgs has...but they are not the best....in time my one of my #1 or # 2 coins will be ngc pop 1 coins...then in time..if i wanted to...they will be pcgs pop 1 coins...leaving all the rest behind.....
a little ditty...when i pedigreed my morgan set i crossed 21 od 22 coins to pcgs....i did it because i wanted to pedigree it and ngc didnt do that yet..............now arent i a great numismatist.....im a genius....not....i did it because there werent many players back then and i was tremendously "hook up" with the right dealers....actually they were crackout guys
one more little ditty
there was a coin in ms 65 with a pop of about 5 at ngc and 5 at pcgs ...the sheets said its worth 160,000.........my buddy the upgrader ( who knows ) tried it 42 times over 2 years because in 66 its a 350,000 coin...finally he gave up and wanted to move on...the guy he went to sell it to ( also a freind of mine ) couldnt for the life of him understand how my buddy could ask 200,000 for the coin..he said 40,000 premium is way too much...i convinced him to buy it and told him to pay the money...he did.........and 4 times a year he tired it for 2 years........then he sent in his whole set and boom ms 66...and he made the 350,000 coin
why....i had ocnvinced him of where his coin stood in relation to the rest of the field
one caveate........as the 66 pop grows ..albeit small...in time he will again be forced to paly the upgrading game again to once again prove to the market that it is the best of them all
conclusion
for your monster coins you have to know where they stand in relation to the rest of the field
hope this helps
monsterman
my goal is to find the monsters and i go where they are but i sometimes miss some.... so if you have any and want to sell IM THE BUYER FOR THEM!!!
out of rockets ...out of bullets...switching to harsh language
The problem with monsterman's scenario is that you have to have access and you [or a trusted advisor] have to know which are the good coins and which aren't. This is not a simple matter.
90%+ of collectors don't [and never will] have access to the coins that monsterman is describing. A somewhat smaller percentage can't accurately choose the right coins even if they did have the access. Such is a recipe for financial disaster if you decide to play the game.
I agree completely that NGC grades 3 out of every 4 coins exactly like PCGS. And probably half of the ones that they grade higher will eventually cross. But the fact remains [if there is any spread in value at all] that the vast majority of the coins that monsterman is after ARE NOT AVAILABLE FOR THE AVERAGE COLLECTOR TO PURCHASE. By the time NGC coins hit the bourse floor, they've been picked over to death and thus the perception that NGC grades like crap is reinforced in the average collector's mind.
<< <i>Could the reason have more to do wth quicker turn-around times and less to do with less strict grading? If you are a bulk seller on e-bay and you can get your material back at a lower grading fee and quicker, is not this a better business decision? >>
Oftimes that would be the case these days, especially if you have to sell em while they're hot and your window of opportunity is limited. You can't sell wuts sittin in PCGS's grading room or storage locker.
TDN makes a solid point. I for one would be happy to pay an extra 20% or more for NGC coins that I feel are superior to PCGS ones. Pick whatever you think a nice PCGS coin is worth, and then I'd pay more for a nicer NGC one in the same holder. Problem is, that opportunity rarely presents itself. Connected players get those opportunities. And more often that not, the sellers on those coins undersell them to boot as Monsterman says....because they are in the wrong holders. I do not usually see anyone I know offering outstanding NGC type coins or PCGS for that matter....at any price.
I can not speak for what NGC is doing right now, but I can speak for what PCGS is doing. PCGS, still, is as tight as ever, and this inckdes a tighter standard than they had in 2002. I traded for a 2002 POP44 coin in MS68 that would go 65 today.
<< <i>2002 POP44 coin in MS68 that would go 65 today >>
This sounds like a bulk graded coin? I have seen only a small percentage of these Bulk graded coins, unlike others who have all the answers. Speaking of 2002 State Quarters have you noticed the Pop on the MS69 P mint coins have remained unchanged for some time at 54 - 40 - 40 - and 30 How many of these coins are in Bulk graded Flag holders? I guess that all coins sent to PCGS since don't make a 9
"I can not speak for what NGC is doing right now, but I can speak for what PCGS is doing. PCGS, still, is as tight as ever, and this inckdes a tighter standard than they had in 2002. I traded for a "wonder coin special" 2002 POP44 coin in MS68 that would go 65 today. Wondercoin was either getting lucky or had a deal, either way the same coin does not get the same grade today."
I was neither "lucky" nor had a deal with PCGS to grade my coins 3 points higher than they deserved - I simply purchased a boat load of modern coins from misc. submittors for most of 2002. And, for any of you out there that believe for a moment that PCGS bulk grading of moderns over the past year yielded any different/better results than coins submitted under different service lines - just PM guys like Datentype from our boards who tried the bulk line this year and should give you an honest answer.
One advantage of "tight" PCGS grading - make a state quarter from 1999 in MS69 and you can probably ask upwards of $10,000 or more for the coin sight-unseen - (i.e. hit the lottery). Other grading services - perhaps 5%-20% of that figure? Throw in the grading skills of Monsterman and a cross from those other services could be extremely rewarding.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
<< <i>The problem with monsterman's scenario is that you have to have access and you [or a trusted advisor] have to know which are the good coins and which aren't. This is not a simple matter.
90%+ of collectors don't [and never will] have access to the coins that monsterman is describing. A somewhat smaller percentage can't accurately choose the right coins even if they did have the access. Such is a recipe for financial disaster if you decide to play the game.
I agree completely that NGC grades 3 out of every 4 coins exactly like PCGS. And probably half of the ones that they grade higher will eventually cross. But the fact remains [if there is any spread in value at all] that the vast majority of the coins that monsterman is after, ARE NOT AVAILABLE FOR THE AVERAGE COLLECTOR TO PURCHASE. By the time NGC coins hit the bourse floor, they've been picked over to death and thus the perception that NGC grades like crap is reinforced in the average collector's mind. >>
I agree the average collector never sees the stuff---At auctions I'm always caught between 2 crackout guys overbidding but playing the percentages---On an old collection I've wised up and asked a dealer to represent me-- and stop bidding at a fair price in the coin if it stays PQ and doesn't upgrade-- In fact on old ratrtlers--I just keep em in the old undergraded holder!!
>>>> By the time NGC coins hit the bourse floor, they've been picked over to death and thus the perception that NGC grades like crap is reinforced in the average collector's mind.
tdn
excellent point bruce....searching where i do i have been spoiled and failed to look back at the bourse floor....
morgannut
i feel your pain....
monsterman
my goal is to find the monsters and i go where they are but i sometimes miss some.... so if you have any and want to sell IM THE BUYER FOR THEM!!!
out of rockets ...out of bullets...switching to harsh language
In mercury dimes as well as other areas of our coin hobby, NGC has drawn the line in the sand to grade the pop tops of the key dates )high profile coins) even tougher than PCGS.
While I have found that PCGS is tougher than NGC in the grading of 95% of the various mercury dimes including the FB designation, I have found over the past 12 years that NGC with Lange and his books on the mercs at the forefront, made sure that the 1916-D and 1945-P would only have in their pops absolute prime examples that stare down at the PCGS equivalents as well as significantly lower pop counts in MS-67FB than PCGS.
The NGC pop tops (MS-67FB) have consistently been lower than PCGS for at least 10 years in the key dates mentioned above.
There are other series in which NGC does the opposite of consistently being a 1/4 looser than PCGS and it is important for coin collectors to be very aware of such instances.
<< <i>Has anyone else noticed that a lot of Ebay sellers that used to slab and sell only pcgs high grade coins are now selling a majority of high grade NGC coins? >>
looks like someone has taking it a step further and went to ANACS with modern coins, I wonder
What would make you more upset sending a true ms65 coin in and getting ms64 holder but knowing that is it truly tops for the grade; or buying a coin in an ms65 holder for ms65 money and receiving the coin in hand only to see that it was way over graded and should be ms63 or 64
I would rather have my MS-65 grade- you guessed it- grade MS-65. Anything else is silly and unprofessional. It is ridiculous that someone has to send in an MS-66 Lincoln just to make MS-65 to PCGS. It is because of comments like the one above that this abusive behavior will continue, as it costs alot of money to submit several coins and this is no free ride.
<< <i>On the post 1932 Washingtons I collected, PCGS seemed clearly one point tighter in terms of marks, whereas NGC seems to value luster a bit more than PCGS. More a question of being different in certain categories, than being tighter. >>
PCGS is the number # 1 grading service for many reasons. " Buy the coin and not the holder is true, however, you will NEVER hear anyone say : " Sell the coin, and not the holder !! The fact of the matter is that PCGS coins have much more value when it comes time to sell. If you want any other grading service's slabs, then fine. If you want to maximize your profits at selling time, then cross them over into PCGS holders, and collect the empty NGC slabs- you will have saved a lot of money in the process !!!
I don't know about moderns, but I have found in Morgans, that NGC and PCGS are very close. I collect PCGS for registry purposes, but have absolutely no problem buying NGC at the grade stated. I guess I have crossed about 5 of them into PCGS holders in the last 6 months. They all graded the same. I have seen a premium for PCGS lately, but I don't think that is due to quality. I think a small premium for PCGS holders in the market place is due to the registries. I have to consider the cost and time of crossing over the plastic on a NGC holder. This cost and delay can be avoided with a PCGS holder. Hence the premium.
In my area of interest, classic commems, I used to think that PCGS and NGC were equal until MS 65. After that, I would take a point off every NGC 66 and above. Now, I'm starting to revise that to MS 64 being equal and MS 65 being where close scrutiny occurs and 66 remains the 1 point drop. My collection has reached a point now, where everything though is MS 65 through MS 68 but I still enjoy looking at the price break stuff.
I find it interesting at shows when dealers sell NGC but want PCGS prices. At the same time, if you are selling NGC, well.....don't expect PCGS prices.
IMHO, as far as classic commems are concerned, PCGS is the market maker. If the crackout guys want to do their things, be my guest. My own experience is that I've averaged 75% crossovers in the holders when I've done so. I'm not a crackout guy, it doesn't interest me. I am a lifetime collector and several of my coins are going nowhere for a long, long time.
If I see a high end NGC, I offer a deal to the dealer. I will pay PCGS price, and half/all of the fee if they will go for the crossover.
I admit to cracking a couple of NGC's for PCGS submission. So far all have crossed at the same grade, and these are recent subs., and the talk of tougher grading was well underway. But it's not something I would try with just any NGC coin, nor would I go in the reverse and say all PCGS crackouts will go the same at NGC. It's gets back to the old "use your own eye" advice I say. As for PCGS value, I think its the fact they stand behind their grades, and the popular PCGS registry that puts them a "click" above the rest. Just MHO.....
Try cracking out coins graded by PCGS and send them in for regrade. I tried this with 3 cents, only one came back the same grade. One 64 became a 65, and the last one got bodybagged. The last one was resubmitted again and went from 63 to 64 where it belonged. Now this was in 2003. The lesson learned, there are no absolutes in grading.
<< <i>Try cracking out coins graded by PCGS and send them in for regrade >>
I have and with far less favorable results than desired. Let's just say that it would be a fair statement to say that I won't be doing it again anytime in the foreseeable future.
Conversely I have had great results crossing NGC coins over to PCGS. I've also had good fortune sending PCGS graded coins in for regrade but cracking PCGS coins out and submitting them raw??? No thank you.
Comments
as i read your post i see some very conflicting statements..for example
you say this
>>>>In high end Saints and $10 Indians I will always buy a nice NGC coin and attempt to cross it over if its nice>>>
then
this
>>>>Is it the finest known? Who knows and who cares?
mmmmmmmif you crossed it it looks like you cared!!!!
>>>Basically 90% of PCGS coins are correctly graded whereas let's say 70% of NGC coins are correctly graded.>>>>
so what your saying is basically 4 out of 5 ngc coins are graded at pcgs standards.....and you would rather pay more in a pcgs holder....and i know why....could it be that collectors are really good enough graders....not...its ego....if it werent ego then just buy so so coins...no one will ever know .....except your peers who might look down theri noses at you
>>So that is one of the disparities and what causes the PCGS preference....>>>
yep and its called being the first service...arming yourself with 80 market makers....and marketing
>>>Dealers love to buy a great looking MS65 Saint and then somehow miraculously get it into a NGC 66 holder>>>>
why would you say miracously????im lost here...have you ever heard of gradflation.....exactly what is it....venture a guess
PLEASE BE ADVISED TO THIS RULE**************
WHAT THE SERVICES ARE DOING IS RANKING COINS...BY ELEVATING COINS THAT DESERVE TO BE ABOVE OTHERS IN ITS PRESENT GRADE
once you have this tenent down you just need to fill in the blanks.....the blanks are
1) ngc breaks more pop barriers than pcgs....and once broken.... in time the coin(s) go over to pcgs for all the money
segway a few years
2) as the pcgs pop 1 gets more populated...say 10...if you lined them all up...the best now goes over to ngc for the next grade up
3) boom the pop barrier is broken again at ngc and now another pop 1 coin...it could be the same coin..or it could be another..in a perfect world it would be the same coin but this is not a perfect world
segway a few years
4) as the ngc pop grows with a few in the same grade WHILE NOT AS MANY AS BEFORE....... in time the coin(s) go over to pcgs for all the money...AGAIN
these 2 services play against each other to both their benefits as they have figured out how to grade the same coins over and over and over and over again....some coins will be hundred dollar graded 200 to 300 times
I will >>>So you really have to buy the coin, not the holder but with everything else being equal, the market assigns a premium to a PCGS coin an I am fine with that.....pay a premium for a PCGS coin all else being equal....
>>>>>A great example of that would be the Kruthofer 1933 $10 Indian which was in a PCGS MS65 holder but recently was auctioned off by Stack's as a NGC MS66 POP 1 coin.....Is it the finest known? Who knows and who cares?
you should care!!!
>>>So you really have to buy the coin, not the holder
looking at what you have said you have in your collection.... your not getting it...i might step on your toes here anf pi$$ you off but your not getting it......the most important thing for you and your high end coins is..........WHERE DOES MY COIN STAND IN RELATION TO THE REST OF THE COINS IN THE POPULATION
this mandra
>>So you really have to buy the coin, not the holder
is important and counts for most coins...but not your 33 indian....YOU HAVE TO KNOW EXACTLY WHERE YOUR COIN STANDS UP AGAINST THE FIELD
i have made some pcgs pop 1 coins....coins that i have 10 of.....i kept my best in ngc holders and sold off the # 3...4...and 5 coins...and those coins are the best pcgs has...but they are not the best....in time my one of my #1 or # 2 coins will be ngc pop 1 coins...then in time..if i wanted to...they will be pcgs pop 1 coins...leaving all the rest behind.....
a little ditty...when i pedigreed my morgan set i crossed 21 od 22 coins to pcgs....i did it because i wanted to pedigree it and ngc didnt do that yet..............now arent i a great numismatist.....im a genius....not....i did it because there werent many players back then and i was tremendously "hook up" with the right dealers....actually they were crackout guys
one more little ditty
there was a coin in ms 65 with a pop of about 5 at ngc and 5 at pcgs ...the sheets said its worth 160,000.........my buddy the upgrader ( who knows ) tried it 42 times over 2 years because in 66 its a 350,000 coin...finally he gave up and wanted to move on...the guy he went to sell it to ( also a freind of mine ) couldnt for the life of him understand how my buddy could ask 200,000 for the coin..he said 40,000 premium is way too much...i convinced him to buy it and told him to pay the money...he did.........and 4 times a year he tired it for 2 years........then he sent in his whole set and boom ms 66...and he made the 350,000 coin
why....i had ocnvinced him of where his coin stood in relation to the rest of the field
one caveate........as the 66 pop grows ..albeit small...in time he will again be forced to paly the upgrading game again to once again prove to the market that it is the best of them all
conclusion
for your monster coins you have to know where they stand in relation to the rest of the field
hope this helps
monsterman
out of rockets ...out of bullets...switching to harsh language
90%+ of collectors don't [and never will] have access to the coins that monsterman is describing. A somewhat smaller percentage can't accurately choose the right coins even if they did have the access. Such is a recipe for financial disaster if you decide to play the game.
I agree completely that NGC grades 3 out of every 4 coins exactly like PCGS. And probably half of the ones that they grade higher will eventually cross. But the fact remains [if there is any spread in value at all] that the vast majority of the coins that monsterman is after ARE NOT AVAILABLE FOR THE AVERAGE COLLECTOR TO PURCHASE. By the time NGC coins hit the bourse floor, they've been picked over to death and thus the perception that NGC grades like crap is reinforced in the average collector's mind.
<< <i>Could the reason have more to do wth quicker turn-around times and less to do with less strict grading? If you are a bulk seller on e-bay and you can get your material back at a lower grading fee and quicker, is not this a better business decision? >>
Oftimes that would be the case these days, especially if you have to sell em while they're hot and your window of opportunity is limited. You can't sell wuts sittin in PCGS's grading room or storage locker.
Pick whatever you think a nice PCGS coin is worth, and then I'd pay more for a nicer NGC one in the same holder. Problem is, that opportunity rarely presents itself. Connected players get those opportunities. And more often that not, the sellers on those coins undersell them to boot as Monsterman says....because they are in the wrong holders. I do not usually see anyone I know offering outstanding NGC type coins or PCGS for that matter....at any price.
roadrunner
<< <i>2002 POP44 coin in MS68 that would go 65 today >>
This sounds like a bulk graded coin? I have seen only a small percentage of these Bulk graded coins, unlike others who have all the answers. Speaking of 2002 State Quarters have you noticed the Pop on the MS69 P mint coins have remained unchanged for some time at 54 - 40 - 40 - and 30 How many of these coins are in Bulk graded Flag holders? I guess that all coins sent to PCGS since don't make a 9
I was neither "lucky" nor had a deal with PCGS to grade my coins 3 points higher than they deserved - I simply purchased a boat load of modern coins from misc. submittors for most of 2002. And, for any of you out there that believe for a moment that PCGS bulk grading of moderns over the past year yielded any different/better results than coins submitted under different service lines - just PM guys like Datentype from our boards who tried the bulk line this year and should give you an honest answer.
One advantage of "tight" PCGS grading - make a state quarter from 1999 in MS69 and you can probably ask upwards of $10,000 or more for the coin sight-unseen - (i.e. hit the lottery). Other grading services - perhaps 5%-20% of that figure? Throw in the grading skills of Monsterman and a cross from those other services could be extremely rewarding.
Wondercoin
<< <i>make a state quarter from 1999 in MS69 >>
The "Crown Jewell"
One of the 3 made out of 4 as well as a NGC Pop 1 Peace Medal MS68PL
<< <i>The problem with monsterman's scenario is that you have to have access and you [or a trusted advisor] have to know which are the good coins and which aren't. This is not a simple matter.
90%+ of collectors don't [and never will] have access to the coins that monsterman is describing. A somewhat smaller percentage can't accurately choose the right coins even if they did have the access. Such is a recipe for financial disaster if you decide to play the game.
I agree completely that NGC grades 3 out of every 4 coins exactly like PCGS. And probably half of the ones that they grade higher will eventually cross. But the fact remains [if there is any spread in value at all] that the vast majority of the coins that monsterman is after, ARE NOT AVAILABLE FOR THE AVERAGE COLLECTOR TO PURCHASE. By the time NGC coins hit the bourse floor, they've been picked over to death and thus the perception that NGC grades like crap is reinforced in the average collector's mind. >>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree the average collector never sees the stuff---At auctions I'm always caught between 2 crackout guys overbidding but playing the percentages---On an old collection I've wised up and asked a dealer to represent me-- and stop bidding at a fair price in the coin if it stays PQ and doesn't upgrade-- In fact on old ratrtlers--I just keep em in the old undergraded holder!!
tdn
excellent point bruce....searching where i do i have been spoiled and failed to look back at the bourse floor....
morgannut
i feel your pain....
monsterman
out of rockets ...out of bullets...switching to harsh language
In mercury dimes as well as other areas of our coin hobby, NGC has drawn the line in the sand to grade the pop tops of the key dates )high profile coins) even tougher than PCGS.
While I have found that PCGS is tougher than NGC in the grading of 95% of the various mercury dimes including the FB designation, I have found over the past 12 years that NGC with Lange and his books on the mercs at the forefront, made sure that the 1916-D and 1945-P would only have in their pops absolute prime examples that stare down at the PCGS equivalents as well as significantly lower pop counts in MS-67FB than PCGS.
The NGC pop tops (MS-67FB) have consistently been lower than PCGS for at least 10 years in the key dates mentioned above.
There are other series in which NGC does the opposite of consistently being a 1/4 looser than PCGS and it is important for coin collectors to be very aware of such instances.
<< <i>Has anyone else noticed that a lot of Ebay sellers that used to slab and sell only pcgs high grade coins are now selling a majority of high grade NGC coins? >>
looks like someone has taking it a step further and went to ANACS with modern coins, I wonder
I would rather have my MS-65 grade- you guessed it- grade MS-65. Anything else is silly and unprofessional. It is ridiculous that someone has to send in an MS-66 Lincoln just to make MS-65 to PCGS. It is because of comments like the one above that this abusive behavior will continue, as it costs alot of money to submit several coins and this is no free ride.
Cheers,
BigBen
<< <i>On the post 1932 Washingtons I collected, PCGS seemed clearly one point tighter in terms of marks, whereas NGC seems to value luster a bit more than PCGS. More a question of being different in certain categories, than being tighter.
I agree..
PCGS is the number # 1 grading service for many reasons.
" Buy the coin and not the holder is true, however, you will NEVER hear anyone say : " Sell the coin, and not the holder !!
The fact of the matter is that PCGS coins have much more value when it comes time to sell.
If you want any other grading service's slabs, then fine. If you want to maximize your profits at selling time, then cross them over into PCGS holders, and collect the empty NGC slabs- you will have saved a lot of money in the process !!!
I find it interesting at shows when dealers sell NGC but want PCGS prices. At the same time, if you are selling NGC, well.....don't expect PCGS prices.
IMHO, as far as classic commems are concerned, PCGS is the market maker. If the crackout guys want to do their things, be my guest. My own experience is that I've averaged 75% crossovers in the holders when I've done so. I'm not a crackout guy, it doesn't interest me. I am a lifetime collector and several of my coins are going nowhere for a long, long time.
If I see a high end NGC, I offer a deal to the dealer. I will pay PCGS price, and half/all of the fee if they will go for the crossover.
But it's not something I would try with just any NGC coin, nor would I go in the reverse and say all PCGS crackouts will go the same at NGC.
It's gets back to the old "use your own eye" advice I say. As for PCGS value, I think its the fact they stand behind their grades, and the popular PCGS registry that puts them a "click" above the rest. Just MHO.....
<< <i>Try cracking out coins graded by PCGS and send them in for regrade >>
I have and with far less favorable results than desired. Let's just say that it would be a fair statement to say that I won't be doing it again anytime in the foreseeable future.
Conversely I have had great results crossing NGC coins over to PCGS. I've also had good fortune sending PCGS graded coins in for regrade but cracking PCGS coins out and submitting them raw??? No thank you.
Fly-In Club
My PCGS Registry Sets