Do you think the TPGs will ever treat World Coins on the same level as US coins?

ajaan

Let's look at the policy of some of the top TPGs, in no particular order.

PCGS -

<< <i>*** World Coins, Mint Errors, and Special Issues are exempt from turnaround guarantees, >>


They can take as long as they want with World Coins and the submitter has no recourse. US coins have a turnaround guarantee.

ANACS - periodocially ANACS runs a 10 coin/ 10 day/ $10 special. According to information I have received from them, these are only good for US coins.

ICG - If they don't grade your 15-day submission in 7 days, you receive double your submission for free. BUT, offer isn't good for World coins.

Do you think the TPGs will ever treat World coins the same as US coins?

spinaker2000

I've done the 10-10-10 special at Anacs on World coins before, at least they use to. Just wait till the "State Quarter" program ends, they'll be begging us to submit!!

ajaan

<< <i>I've done the 10-10-10 special at Anacs on World coins before >>


When I looked at the last special like this, it said US coins only. Now if they grade World coins under this offer . . . perhaps they just don't want it to be general knowledge.

spinaker2000

Last group was sent out at Charlotte Spring ANA Don, what was that 2003??

ajaan

I'm just going by the info I've seen on their website and in ads.

coinkat

Not for awhile... not until the TPG COMPANIES PERCEIVE there is greater interest in World Coins. Just for fun, go to the link and check the NGC pop reports for your favorite country(ies)... I did and I am surprised with what I see.

My view is simply this... the majority of world collectors are not sold on slabs because it separates them too much from their coin. Most are content to own the coin and the MS whatever is of a secondary concern. As time passes and the rarity of certain coins becomes more apparent and if that rarity is associated with a very attractively designed coin... well... I think you can read between the lines on that. The TPG attitude will change but it will not happen overnight.

MrEureka

When it comes to world coins, PCGS often relies on outside consultants who aren't always available. That can lengthen turnaround times. I don't see things improving until the day comes when PCGS can justify hiring a full time world coin expert. Same goes for mint errors. I don't know what's going on with the "special issues".

kieferscoins

ICG does treat World Coins the same as US coins. It may take longer (compared to a US 7 day guarantee) but the coins will have KM#'s, attributions, rulers, date of reign, weight, composition etc. on every coin when applicable. It takes time looking up and entering the correct info into the computer (with another grader checking the exact same thing all over again after the first grader does it....... before going to the third grader). They take a little longer because they are not like a common 1881-S Morgan dollar. I love getting a world or ancient coin box but they take longer. We try to get them done as quickly as possible. Speed is nice but accuracy is more important.

Cameron Kiefer

coinkat

Cam...

To do the job right, it does take longer and managing expectations is equally important... The world market just has not ripened the way the US Market did 20 years ago.

1960NYGiants

<< <i>ICG does treat World Coins the same as US coins. It may take longer (compared to a US 7 day guarantee) but the coins will have KM#'s, attributions, rulers, date of reign, weight, composition etc. on every coin when applicable. It takes time looking up and entering the correct info into the computer (with another grader checking the exact same thing all over again after the first grader does it....... before going to the third grader). They take a little longer because they are not like a common 1881-S Morgan dollar. I love getting a world or ancient coin box but they take longer. We try to get them done as quickly as possible. Speed is nice but accuracy is more important.

Cameron Kiefer >>



Hi Cam - excellent answer. Three questions:

1. Does ICG also employ World coin experts to assist in grading?

2. How does ICG determine amount of red for copper? i.e., what % makes a coin red?

3. Does ICG have a copper guaranty?

Thanks,

Gene

ajaan

Cameron does bring up an interesting point. Is it that the grading of World coins is more difficult, for the reasons stated, than US coins? If it takes longer, then it must be more expensive to grade world coin than US coins. Take longer ----> fewer coins/hour -----> more expensive. Perhaps the TPGs will do away with grading world coins altogther.

I do find it interesting at ICG that all three graders have to check the KM#, ruler, etc. This was something I wasn't aware of. I could see how it would take a lot longer than with US coins.

ajaan

<< <i>2. How does ICG determine amount of red for copper? i.e., what % makes a coin red? >>


On the holder, no.

I want to know, does ICG give the CAM and DCAM designation on World Proof Coins? I have submitted a few coins that I thought for sure were CAM or DCAM.

kieferscoins

2 graders check KM # etc.

CAM and DCAM apply to all proof coins if they are world or US. Does the grade say PR or MS?




<< <i>Perhaps the TPGs will do away with grading world coins altogther. >>



I don't think that will ever happen. The services like grading world coins and ICG even slabs ancients which the other services do not.

Cameron Kiefer

ajaan

Grade says PR for sure. Hmmm . . . ICG must have stricter criteria than NGC. ICG's grading of ancients is a great asset.

AuldFartte

I'd like to thank Cameron for the information here. I now know where I'll be sending some world coins

Preussen

Let's face facts, folks. Darkside will never be the mainstream of collecting in this country, so it will never be seen as the top priority of any of the TPG services. Darkside IS however gaining popularity, and the TPG services must eventually give us more respect. I am among the many who have criticized (quite vocally) PCGS for its apparent ambivalence toward world coins, but please keep in mind that with Ron Guth as President we cannot ask for a stronger advocate for change in our favor.

It will take time for the word to get out and for website verbiage & “official” policy to change, but Ron has personally assured me that world coins are a valuable part of PCGS’ business. Ron has also assured me that world coins ARE welcome as the “free” submissions afforded PCGS Collector Club members; and although (because of their “special” nature) turnaround times cannot be guaranteed on the “top tier” services, world coin submissions are welcome there as well…Ron has pledged that they will be expedited to the greatest possible extent.

Time will tell, but I for one favor giving them a chance to prove that they value our business. My 8 (world) Collector’s Club renewal coins are there now, and I just received a favorable (+2 points) determination on a “Presidential Review” of a Prussian coin. - Preussen

ajaan

<< <i>Ron has pledged that they will be expedited to the greatest possible extent. >>


They entered my submission on 9/14/05. So far no grades.

1960NYGiants

<< <i>Let's face facts, folks. Darkside will never be the mainstream of collecting in this country, so it will never be seen as the top priority of any of the TPG services. Darkside IS however gaining popularity, and the TPG services must eventually give us more respect. I am among the many who have criticized (quite vocally) PCGS for its apparent ambivalence toward world coins, but please keep in mind that with Ron Guth as President we cannot ask for a stronger advocate for change in our favor.

It will take time for the word to get out and for website verbiage & “official” policy to change, but Ron has personally assured me that world coins are a valuable part of PCGS’ business. Ron has also assured me that world coins ARE welcome as the “free” submissions afforded PCGS Collector Club members; and although (because of their “special” nature) turnaround times cannot be guaranteed on the “top tier” services, world coin submissions are welcome there as well…Ron has pledged that they will be expedited to the greatest possible extent.

Time will tell, but I for one favor giving them a chance to prove that they value our business. My 8 (world) Collector’s Club renewal coins are there now, and I just received a favorable (+2 points) determination on a “Presidential Review” of a Prussian coin. - Preussen >>




Well said and some interesting points. I hope Ron will be able to deliver.

Gene

coinkat

It will happen... to some degree, it has to happen based on the total number of World coins out there that have value (whether that value is fully appreciated is another story, but that may be a motivating factor to move the process along), but its just not going to happen overnight.

ajaan

World coin grading - The Undiscovered Country?

Aethelred

Is NGC now grading ancient coins?

ajaan

Not that I know of.

Aethelred

I seem to recall seeing an Alexander the Great coin in an NGC holder, but I can't recall where or when.

Aethelred

THIS should answer my question.

JamminJ

<< <i>Is NGC now grading ancient coins? >>



Yes, but they are only accepting bulk submissions from dealers as of now.

Aethelred

<< <i>

Yes, but they are only accepting bulk submissions from dealers as of now. >>




Bummer!

secondrepublic

At some point most of the U.S. coins that should be TPG'd will have been graded... and at that point, the remaining potentially huge market will be foreign coins. The real limiting factor, though, is that not a lot of foreign collectors send their stuff to the TPGs... it's too expensive, confusing, and/or risky to send nice coins internationally. So unless the TPGs open up a P.O. Box in different parts of the world (or a satellite office) they're not going to get that business. I hear Polish collectors talking sometimes about having a TPG in their country... wouldn't surprise me if we see it at some point.

There is still a lot of resistance to TPG among Europeans, but TPG seems to have at least two advantages you can't argue with: the coin inside the slab is pretty much guaranteed to be genuine, not badly cleaned, and without PVC. Second, the slab provides some excellent physical protection for the coin. You can argue all day about the grade on the holder, but you can't argue those facts. So I think you'll see more TPG for world coins in the future - particularly as prices keep rising for nicer material.

weresteve

<< <i>Just wait till the "State Quarter" program ends, they'll be begging us to submit!! >>



Don't bet on it ... the "Presidental Dollar" program has been approved ...

SYRACUSIAN

<< <i>
Is NGC now grading ancient coins?


THIS should answer my question. >>








It's interesting that the grades are not numerical.

Preussen

<< <i>

<< <i>Ron has pledged that they will be expedited to the greatest possible extent. >>


They entered my submission on 9/14/05. So far no grades. >>



Ouch! Does your submission service level have a guaranteed turnaround time (for US coins)? It wasn't my intent to imply that Ron had promised to expedite submission on tiers with "approximate" turnaround times...sorry if my post was misleading. If yours was one with a guaranteed tornaround, that's beyond terrible, but even for economy, thats bad - Preussen

coinpictures

Interesting... so NGC doesn't use a numeric scale on ancients... just adjective grades.

ajaan

<< <i>If yours was one with a guaranteed tornaround, that's beyond terrible, but even for economy, thats bad >>


There are no time guarantees with world coin submissions.

Preussen

<< <i>There are no time guarantees with world coin submissions. >>



Yes, I know... As I stated before; No guarantees for world coins, but a pledge to expedite the top-tier submissions (the tiers for which there IS a guaranteed turnaround for US coins). - Preussen