Options
wow didnt know pete rose elgiblity for hall is over..
RANDYMOSS84
Posts: 1,980
in Sports Talk
he cant be elected to hall now.. 15 years have passed
0
RANDYMOSS84
Posts: 1,980
RANDYMOSS84
Posts: 1,980
RANDYMOSS84
Posts: 1,980
Comments
<< <i>pete rose is pissed watch BDSP u can see him tonite and tomorow[/q
dang all kinds of stories, now someone is selling a pete rose "corked" bat
He had his problems off the field, he bet on games as a manager and lied about it.
But to deny the hall to one of the greatest batsman of all time is a crime against the game of baseball...but Fay Vincent had it in his mind he was going to 'stick it' to Rose and leave a lasting legacy for all time...too bad it's only tarnished his name more.
Pete Rose should be in the hall. End of story.
I know it would never happen, but seriously, this would put an end to the entire issue. The hall of fame is really made for the fans, so why not let them decide.
I did see Albert Belle's name made the list, that's a guy who should be taken off the list immediately.
One day Rose will get in. I don't know how, but he will.
I know times were much different but look what Joe Jackson went through, and what his family went through after he passed on. Its gonna be real tough for Rose to get in
while he is living and breathing.
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
<< <i>In my opinion Rose has one way and one way only to get into the Hall of Fame. Totally give up gambling and become an anti-gambling spokesperson to warn people (including baseball players) about the dangers involved with gambling. Other than doing that, he is only kidding himself and he will probably never get in the Hall. Bottom line...I believe that Rose deep down inside loves his gambling more than he would love being in the Hall of Fame - and that really is a shame. >>
Anyone see recent video of Pete? He looks torn up from the floor up .....
I don't see any way he gets in while he is walking this Earth.
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
Pete Rose should be in the hall. End of story.
Well, maybe the end of the "Pete Rose Should Be In the HOF E! True Cincinnati Story"
The real life story, however, starts and ends with Pete Rose being banned from baseball for life for gambling. That's pretty much the preface, beginning, middle, end and epilogue of the entire story. I understand that some of you want to forgive and forget either because you don't think gambling is that bad, or because he was your favorite player growing up, but anyone who objectively looks at what he did recognizes he is a loathsome individual who committed the most mortal sin in sports. He compromised the integrity of the sport for to serve his own addictions. He deceived his players, the league and the fans. He cheated, he lied, he got caught, he lied some more, and to this day, remains a complete a$$ hole about the whole thing. And anyone who replies with "well Cobb was a racist and he's in etc etc" is really missing the point.
I know how. He'll buy a ticket.
<< <i>
The real life story, however, starts and ends with Pete Rose being banned from baseball for life for gambling. That's pretty much the preface, beginning, middle, end and epilogue of the entire story. I understand that some of you want to forgive and forget either because you don't think gambling is that bad, or because he was your favorite player growing up, but anyone who objectively looks at what he did recognizes he is a loathsome individual who committed the most mortal sin in sports. He compromised the integrity of the sport for to serve his own addictions. He deceived his players, the league and the fans. He cheated, he lied, he got caught, he lied some more, and to this day, remains a complete a$$ hole about the whole thing. And anyone who replies with "well Cobb was a racist and he's in etc etc" is really missing the point. >>
absolutley correct, which is why there is no way Rose gets in while he is alive. If ever. ITHINK he should be in the Hall but DG spelled it out in the above post. Rose is an A$$ and constantly digs his hole deeper.
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
The hall of fame is not run, managed, or in any way abides by the rules of MLB. Had they wanted to, they would have been able to admit him if he had been voted in, and not been a violation of his banning from baseball.
The hall is not full of saints, so before we go off on our 'Pete is a sinner because he gambled!' tirade, let's not forget he gambled while not playing, but as a manager.
I am not excusing his actions; they were bad and his lying about it only compounded the issue. But if you want to talk about the integrity of the game, you better start banning everyone who's ever used uppers or any stimulants, because that gave them an unfair advantage, and that hurts the integrity of the game.
Better ban anyone who's ever been in any sort of trouble with the law, because that hurts the integrity of the game.
Pretty soon, we'll be left with a bunch of members of the vienna school choir...and who wants to watch THAT?
<< <i>
<< <i>In my opinion Rose has one way and one way only to get into the Hall of Fame. Totally give up gambling and become an anti-gambling spokesperson to warn people (including baseball players) about the dangers involved with gambling. Other than doing that, he is only kidding himself and he will probably never get in the Hall. Bottom line...I believe that Rose deep down inside loves his gambling more than he would love being in the Hall of Fame - and that really is a shame. >>
Anyone see recent video of Pete? He looks torn up from the floor up .....
I don't see any way he gets in while he is walking this Earth. >>
he looked fine on best damn sport show period
Pete made this comment last nite:
Major League Baseball would be happy if i died today, i am a problem for them.
The hall of fame is not run, managed, or in any way abides by the rules of MLB. Had they wanted to, they would have been able to admit him if he had been voted in, and not been a violation of his banning from baseball.
I think this is splitting hairs a bit. Everything I've always read is that Pete Rose is not on the HOF ballot specifically due to his lifetime suspension from baseball, and since he's not on the ballot, he can't be voted in. Other than that, I'm not sure it's accurate to claim the HOF could do whatever "they" want (and please see below as to who "they" are) had he been voted in (I guess by write-in?). I admittedly don't know the exact specific terms of the ban (nor do I think you do either) to make a definitive statement either way, but 100% of what has always been said and published suggests your assertion is wrong.
Also, it's very incorrect to say the "HOF is not run, managed or in any way abides by the rules of MLB..." While we all like to think of the National Baseball HOF as an independent non-profit museum/historical society type entity, maybe take a look at who runs it before making a claim like that. Just about everyone on the Board of Directors (the "they" you are referring to) is a former or current MLB executive, team owner, league commissioner, team/league president or player in MLB (including Bud Selig himself).
For instance, all these people are currently on the HOF Board of Directors:
Bud Selig
Bowie Kuhn
George Steinbrenner
John McHale
Leland MacPhail
William O. DeWitt
Paul Beeston
etc
The only relevant rules of MLB involve play between the lines. Everything else, it's all just the American system of baseball, and it's all intermingled. The minors, the majors, the office of MLB, the teams, the players, the HOF, the American team entering the international World Cup, the all-century team, the all star game, etc. All that is what Pete Rose is banned from.
"Any player, umpire, or club official or employee, who shall bet any sum whatsoever upon any baseball game in connection with which the bettor has no duty to perform shall be declared ineligible for one year.
"Any player, umpire, or club or league official or employee, who shall bet any sum whatsoever upon any baseball game in connection with which the bettor has a duty to perform shall be declared permanently ineligible."
How much more clear does it have to be? Rose is permanently ineligible according to the rule. Rules are made to be broken?...sometimes perhaps but in this case what Rose has done with continued gambling, etc., leaves baseball no other choice but to keep him barred. Rose should either quit gambling or STFU about himself getting in the Hall - but I guess keeping the issue alive helps him sell more of his books...so he can blow the money on those superfecta parlays and on the racehorses he owns that can't run.
Does anyone think for a second there aren't many, many current players doing so? And it was never proven Rose bet on the games he was managing, yet the hall (and those who want to pull him down) want to hang him like they are the morality police.
Rose's betting on baseball came AFTER his playing days were done...keep him banned from baseball and managing is fine, but to keep him out of the hall, even though there are many, many items of his on display there is a TRAVESTY of epic proportions.
This I believe and many others believe is false. If Rose was hooked up to a lie detector machine and asked, "whether or not he bet on baseball games as a player?" I believe he would have to answer "Yes" or that lie detector needle would start zigzagging like crazy. Why doesn't Rose simply take a polygraph test to refute some of these allegations?...well...we already know why he wouldn't take the test.
Just why are people so opposed to this? Is the HoF a shrine for saints? Is baseball played by purists?
<< <i>
Rose's betting on baseball came AFTER his playing days were done...keep him banned from baseball and managing is fine, but to keep him out of the hall, even though there are many, many items of his on display there is a TRAVESTY of epic proportions. >>
TRAVESTY of epic proportions? That would be what is happening in urban America, what is happening over seas. Not old fat Pete Rose being kept out of the Hall.
Remember ax? You tried to play English teacher with me last week on the word "epic". Read up on what a TRAVESTY is noodle head.
IDIOT
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
Polygraph tests happen to be very reliable indicators. But they are not 100% perfect which is the reason they can't be used in courts. Polygraph tests are used all the time by the police and detectives to indicate someone's plausible guilt or innocence - that means that the tests are reliable. Companies use polygraph tests also in certain employee situations. That also means the tests are reliable. But it's all mute here because Rose won't take one because he knows what the outcome would be. He would most likely be proven to be even more of a liar than he was - just my opinion. Believe it or not I happen to like Pete Rose. He was of course a terrific player and helped guide my Phillies to a World Series victory in 1980. But rule 21 (d) isn't posted on MLB clubhouse walls just to cover up a bad paint spot - it's posted there for a reason.
<< <i>
<< <i>
Rose's betting on baseball came AFTER his playing days were done...keep him banned from baseball and managing is fine, but to keep him out of the hall, even though there are many, many items of his on display there is a TRAVESTY of epic proportions. >>
TRAVESTY of epic proportions? That would be what is happening in urban America, what is happening over seas. Not old fat Pete Rose being kept out of the Hall.
Remember ax? You tried to play English teacher with me last week on the word "epic". Read up on what a TRAVESTY is noodle head.
IDIOT >>
You moronic twit, I of course was referring to the realm of the sports world. Face it, in the big picture, sports are a tiny speck on the scale of global importance.
SD
Of course he deserves to be in the Hall of Fame but "deserves" has got nothing to do with it. He broke the rules and therefore is ineligible. And Rose will remain ineligible unless Rose does something about it. He's done nothing about it - continuing his gambling is like spitting at the commissioner. Even just saying he's sorry I don't think is good enough. Rose should become an anti-gambling advocate of some kind in order to change a commissioner's mind to allow him in.
The rules for HOF eligibility:
3. Eligible Candidates — Candidates to be eligible must meet the following requirements:
A baseball player must have been active as a player in the Major Leagues at some time during a period beginning twenty (20) years before and ending five (5) years prior to election.
Player must have played in each of ten (10) Major League championship seasons, some part of which must have been within the period described in 3 (A).
Player shall have ceased to be an active player in the Major Leagues at least five (5) calendar years preceding the election but may be otherwise connected with baseball.
In case of the death of an active player or a player who has been retired for less than five (5) full years, a candidate who is otherwise eligible shall be eligible in the next regular election held at least six (6) months after the date of death or after the end of the five (5) year period, whichever occurs first.
Any player on Baseball's ineligible list shall not be an eligible candidate
And:
5. Voting — Voting shall be based upon the player's record, playing ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character, and contributions to the team(s) on which the player played.
On a purely etymological note, IMO the Rose situation would more properly be called a "tragedy" - in the classic Greek sense of a hero felled by his own hubris - than a "travesty" - which should instead be used to describe Ron Santo and Bert Blyleven not being in the HOF.
is Raffy Palmiero a HoFer?
Not a travesty, but a punishment that fits the crime perfectly in fact. The HOF will gladly celebrate his baseball achievements, as those celebrate the achievements of a great ballplayer. They just rightfully refuse to honor the man. That's what enshrinement is. A honor for the individual player. And that is what Pete Rose the man has never deserved.
The fact that Pete himself clammers about how he "deserves" to be in and how it's "wrong" and "unfair" that he's not illustrates how confused that argument really is. People deserving of honor do not need to demand it. 99% of all players start their induction ceremony by thanking everyone, and tearfully commenting what an honor it is to be recognized. By the way he acts about it, Rose would begin "Well it's about f***ing time!"
Make no mistakes, the ban and his exclusion are a punishment. It's not a rule, it's not a decision, it's not a policy. Punishments hurt, Mr Rose. And it's too bad you're not even man enough to accept it, and even more unfortunate you didn't bother explaining that lesson to your son...
<< <i>
You moronic twit, I of course was referring to the realm of the sports world. Face it, in the big picture, sports are a tiny speck on the scale of global importance. >>
Ummm, I just slapped you in your FACE with this CLOWN
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
you need to have your brain examined.
It's apparent those paint chips you ate as a child, combined with the years of inhaling aersol cans have led you to a place of diminished mental capacities. However there is hope as many hospitals would be well suited to handling people in your 'sensitive' condition.
is Raffy Palmiero a HoFer? >>>
Doesn't matter what I think. It only matters what the people in charge of the voting think and what MLB thinks. Does Palmeiro "deserve" to be in the HOF? - Yes, of course. Will he be voted into the HOF? - Yes, definitely...because there is no rule against HOF voting where steroids are concerned. If there was such a rule regarding steroids...then he would be ineligible and wouldn't be voted in.
<< <i><<< stevek-
is Raffy Palmiero a HoFer? >>>
Doesn't matter what I think. It only matters what the people in charge of the voting think and what MLB thinks. Does Palmeiro "deserve" to be in the HOF? - Yes, of course. Will he be voted into the HOF? - Yes, definitely...because there is no rule against HOF voting where steroids are concerned. If there was such a rule regarding steroids...then he would be ineligible and wouldn't be voted in. >>
But doesn't his cheating violate the integrity of the game?
I am playing devil's advocate here of course, and simply trying to understand why Raffy would be given a pass when he cheated, and was caught. What Raffy did, at least in my eyes, is significantly worse than what Rose did because Raffy affected the outcomes of games with his steroid and HGH use. Rose didn't, but yet Rose is the one suffering a lifetime ban.
I am playing devil's advocate here of course, and simply trying to understand why Raffy would be given a pass when he cheated, and was caught. What Raffy did, at least in my eyes, is significantly worse than what Rose did because Raffy affected the outcomes of games with his steroid and HGH use. Rose didn't, but yet Rose is the one suffering a lifetime ban. >>>
Personally, I think and obviously MLB thinks that gambling is worse than steroids as far as the integrity of the game. But I don't disagree here with your basic point. Perhaps someday MLB will pass a rule barring future steroid users from the HOF and I wouldn't have any problem with that.
Ty Cobb was a maniac and an unsavory human being. Shoeless Joe Jackson was a stupid farmboy who didn't comprehend what was going on?? Don't think the HOF was ever on their minds.
I loved growing up watching Charlie Hustle. What an immense competitor, champion and record setter. He has made a huge amount of money off THE FANS basis autographs, endorsements and appearances. He should shut his mouth about any complaints regarding the HOF.
What irks me most are the reports that he payed off many of his gambling debts with autographs and "memoribilia." I believe it.
So to his unknowing fan base, myself amognst them, he has been taking advantage of our loyalties and hard earned dollars to support the very BS that prevents him from getting in the Hall in the first place. Regards..
Unfocused, impulsive collector of everything ...
I'm not sure what planet you've been on lately, but the general consensus of those who do the voting is a resounding No to both those questions.
It's a planet called "Earth" - Palmeiro is a mortal lock for the Hall of Fame. Possibly not the first ballet but he will get in.
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
Well, we'll see five years after he retires. In my view his stats are too overwhelming despite the circumstances that we all know about. He'll be voted in sooner or later, most probably the 2nd or 3rd year of voting. This was just a comment on my part because of the Rose discussion. Frankly, I couldn't care less if he gets in or not, and if he surprisingly to me doesn't get in, that wouldn't bother me one bit.
When he retired I think most considered him a lock. Now I think personally he shouldn't, and realistically he won't, ever get elected.
When he retired I think most considered him a lock. Now I think personally he shouldn't, and realistically he won't, ever get elected. >>>
oh please...you had some credability with the Palmeiro comment, but no credability with this comment.
<< <i>How about McGwire?
When he retired I think most considered him a lock. Now I think personally he shouldn't, and realistically he won't, ever get elected. >>
Come on now.
Are you serious? While his testimony in front of Congress was less than stellar, he didn't break any rules, wasn't caught doping, and (along with Sosa) saved baseball. He will be rewarded with a HoF plaque.
Why shouldn't he be in?
Secondly, many of those who once praised him as you do for "saving" baseball now feel cheated and bitter towards both him and Sosa. Whether whatever suppliments they were using were legal at the time or if they even took anything illegal at all is really irrelevant to lot of people. All that matters is there's no doubt McGwire, Sosa et al were chemically enhanced by whatever you want to believe. That alone is enough to cast serious doubts I think.
I think it's a little naive to say since he didn't get caught (or what he used was legal at the time) so he is clean, end of story. The truth is, he didn't admit to breaking any rules, nor did he deny breaking any rules. And even if there weren't technically rules to break at the time, I think the majority of baseball fans and writers/voters recognize that he cheated, even if whatever he took may've been allowed at the time, even if he never admitted it, or never denied it, and they will look at his career a little differently.
And when that career amounts to a .263 average with no fielding skills and basically just a ton of HRs hit while using whatever enhancers you choose to believe he was using, yes, I'm serious, there is a lot of questions as whether or not he makes it. Or if he even comes close for that matter.
Some will say, it was all legal, he had a HOF career.
Some will say, it was legal, but his career was chemically enhanced, no way a HOF career
Others will say he must've been using illegal steroids. He didn't get caught because NO one got caught back then. F him.
I think you're both hugely discounting the last two groups of people. In fact, I think there are few logical people who will stick their heads in the sand and say, he hit 583 HRs, never got caught using anything illegal, let's enshrine him forever. Legal or not, caught or not, admitted or not, people will consider what he was using during his career. And as more and more facts come out and more and more players are caught today, his career and legacy will become more and more tainted.
Your argument was read...it is understood but is incorrect. McGwire is a first ballot HOFer. The HOF has a fair amount of members who were mainly home run hitters and had mediocre batting averages - McGwire will soon be another.
------------------------------------
NEW YORK -- Mark McGwire could miss out on making the Hall of Fame because of baseball's swirling steroids scandal, heightened by his refusal to answer specific questions before Congress, surveys by ESPN and The Associated Press showed.
In an ESPN poll of 109 Hall of Fame voters, only 43.1 percent said they would definitely vote for McGwire on the first ballot, with 19.3 percent undecided. Another 3.7 percent said they would probably vote for McGwire.
Only 65 of 155 Hall voters told the AP they would vote for McGwire when he becomes eligible in two years or were leaning that way; 52 said no or were leaning that way; and 38 were undecided.
Not according to the HOF voters. Sure, things could change over the next few years, but I think voter's perception of him will only get worse as the grandure of his baseball accomplishments fades away.
That's how I see it ... never a Big Mac fan so I may be a little biased.
I do not see him as a 500 HR member without enhancements ... proven or otherwise. Killebrew got in based on the 500 membership, which is really not that exclusive anymore.
<< <i>And when that career amounts to a .263 average with no fielding skills and basically just a ton of HRs hit while using whatever enhancers you choose to believe he was using....
>>
I'm not nearly as big a McGwire fan as I once was, but fair's fair:
McGwire won a Gold Glove, probably deserved one or two more. Yes, it's an easy position and no, he's not one of the all-time greats, but he was not a bad fielder.
In 1998, if you turn each and every one of the 70 HRs McGwire hit in to a single, his OPS is still better than the league average. He was a phenomenal HR hitter; even with no HRs at all he was still not a bad hitter. (Try this with, say, Bill Buckner, and he falls way below the league average.)
As for the debate, I hope they don't admit any of the recent homer hitters until more time has passed and we have a little more perspective and maybe have more information. Maybe let the ones in who are still alive at age 55.