Options
Sold it for $4,600;Bought it back for $759
Davalillo
Posts: 1,846 ✭✭
A couple of years ago feeling stretched on my budget, I sold my 1951 Bowman PSA 8 Frank Overmire to John Branca for $4,600. It was a pop 5 at the time I believe. David Vargha had just sold his to another collector for that amount so I contacted Branca and bingo--he bought it for $4,600-I think that may have been the only card he needed to complete the set in psa 8 por better(he went on to build a collosal set mainly in psa 9).
I had hoped at the time I could buy it back for less but up until today it was still one of the 19 cards I needed to complete the set in psa 8 or better. Well on ebay today I just bought the Overmire for $759 in psa 8. Unbelievable.
Perhaps there is a lesson in all this and to just let the collectors who have to have them immediately pay the big prices and be patient.
David Vargha, no longer allowed on this board I believe, could confirm this story.
Dav
I had hoped at the time I could buy it back for less but up until today it was still one of the 19 cards I needed to complete the set in psa 8 or better. Well on ebay today I just bought the Overmire for $759 in psa 8. Unbelievable.
Perhaps there is a lesson in all this and to just let the collectors who have to have them immediately pay the big prices and be patient.
David Vargha, no longer allowed on this board I believe, could confirm this story.
Dav
0
Comments
Eyebone
<< <i>He also said that sadly, he has always lost money trading and selling cards and would gladly state so under oath and before any IRS officer. >>
However ...while there have been many cards that once were low pops and sold for huge amounts and now can be had a lot cheaper, my guess its that there are some cards that were real sleepers and those have increased in value quite nicely ...
There was a card on ebay offered about a year ago...low pop and i bid 200 bucks, the card went for about 250...i thought the bidders were crazy and that as soon as there were other examples the card would go down, the pop went up but so did demand , the same card went for over 500 on ebay less than two months ago.
demand is what drives the market
Groucho Marx
GO MARLINS! Home of the best fans in baseball!!
It would be more incredible if you bought back the one you sold. Youe right that is a lesson. I did it with my 68 set when they were hot. Be patient in this hobby and it will save you money
Dave
I agree. There are a number of sets I am involved with--1955 Topps to name one-- where the demand is extremely high and prices keep rising. On the other hand, the low pops from 1951 Bowman and 1952 Topps have come down. Demand is the key.
Dave,
I still owe you a dinner in Michigan--particularly after you sold me those psa 10 1970 Kellogg's at such a cheap price-ha!
Yes patience can be a virtue but I am at the point where I must have 25 sets that are under 5 cards to complete in psa 8 or better.
If a 62 Landrum in 8 came along or a 60 Fleer FB Woodard I don't think I would be patient.
Jim
<< <i>Demand is the key. >>
That is true, demand is key, but I also think that actual rarity is even more important to the price. That is why you see the sky rocketing prices in Pre-War cards. There just aren't that many of some of those rare Candy/Carmel/T series cards, while there are a lot of 1951 Bowmans around in comparison.
I think demand keeps prices up on a temporary basis (mainly because hobby demand seems to go in cycles). But actual scarcity of a card- no matter what the grade-- that is what I think is really the most important factor in any given price.
reap the whirlwind
"All evil needs to triumph is for good men to do nothing."
But more important, congrats on your 52 Bowman small FB award, and welcome back to CU, you were almost always a truly interesting/informative read, JIm.
How much did the original copy cost you?
SD
I may be speaking out of turn but I would guess it was in one of Jim's sets
Jim
Dinner would be great if you get back to this part of the country. Its nice and cold here now. Lots of snow also. 8 inches fell last night.
stay the course on your sets and I will continue to check and see where I can help.
P.S. Your welcome on the Kellogg's
Skyrocketing is not an overstatement....I am stunned at wat is going on with the values of prewar psa 8s. For example, I think my 150 psa 8 T206 commons have a value of at least $2,000 for the higher pops(I was recently offered that) and up to $6,000 apiece for the pop 1s.
Congrats on your outstanding T205 set.
Fletch,
Right you are.....I cannot believe what Spence is paying. He actually was an underbidder on a 55 Topps psa 8 common at around $2,200 the other night. He seldom loses. If I see him bidding, I almost always give up because I know he will have an incredibly high bid in there. Sets where he and Louchios are going head to head, its wise to step back and focus on other sets.
Jaxxr,
Thank you for the kind words...will try to live up to your expectations in the future.
Dave,
Thanks in advance.
Have been buying 68 Psa9s at under $25 and they seem to be plentiful at that price.
What are you collecting now?
Jim
T-206 are fairly plentiful...yet they sell for crazy money.
its really cyclical....OJs used to sell a lot cheaper than a 70' HOF card in high grade not too long ago
The pre war market is on an incredible run right now...they have a lot of things going on for them.
With the pop reports you can actually see how extremetly rare they are when compared to other sets, the internet is giving people the chance to read up and actually see cards that are so beautiful....and the modern market is complete trash, driving more collectors to seek vintage cards.
Groucho Marx
<< <i>
<< <i>Demand is the key. >>
That is true, demand is key, but I also think that actual rarity is even more important to the price. That is why you see the sky rocketing prices in Pre-War cards. There just aren't that many of some of those rare Candy/Carmel/T series cards, while there are a lot of 1951 Bowmans around in comparison.
I think demand keeps prices up on a temporary basis (mainly because hobby demand seems to go in cycles). But actual scarcity of a card- no matter what the grade-- that is what I think is really the most important factor in any given price.
reap the whirlwind >>
This is true to an extent, but demand is really the number one factor. I've been slowly building late 70's Burger King sets and I quickly realized that I can nickel and dime the whole project because almost nobody else is doing it. Really really tough PSA 9's are going unsold for $10 so I just wait until I can get them for $3. If more people fought me for them, then I would pay the $10.
Although 70's cards and Pre War are totally different. I don't have much experience in Pre War.
The 50 Bowmans I collect are sometimes ridiculous for low pop cards. You could probably sell the Parnell for about 2500 in a PSA 7, much more than any HOF in the set in a 7
I know I recently saw a PSA 8 on ebay sell for nearly $6000. At least the Parnell has signficance being that it is the first card in the set. The signs that worry me are when you see Gerry Colemans and Jim Hegans selling for 5k plus.
Always looking for 1957 Topps BB in PSA 9!
Pop 13 in psa 8 with 2 higher. 3rd toughest card in 8 in the set(there is a pop 11 and a pop 12).
Frank,
Good to hear from you.
Down to 9 to finish 1957 Topps in psa 8 or better.
Probably should have bought the Garcia from you when I could. Lost Lopez and Kinder last week with $450ish bids.
Still stuck at 3 on 1964 Philly(Gilburg, Bull, Walker).
Jim
Collecting all but concentrating on the 69 topps baseball set. Also the 56 & 61 Topps Football set. 68's are very plentiful and cheap. I also picked up a mess under 25 with most going under 20. I started also playing with the 300 Payne Set. I am having fun with it and have linked a gallery to display the cards. This is the link
http://www.djjscards.com/gallery.php
Check it out if you get a chance.
Great to see you back I for one missed your presence.
Dave
Thanks--nice to get a number of welcoming messages from my friends--some of which I had lost touch with. Its been interesting to see who my real friends were in recent months.
Will give an update on my quest for 100 psa 8 or better vintage sets soon.Hope to complete both the 56 and 61 FB in 8 or better soon.
Heading out for the night--will check your website tomorrow.
Jim
I think qualityhorseracing is Don Louchios who is certainly not out off money--I may be wrong on this though.
I can say that he did pay big on 55 Topps commons in 8
SD
Thats a great website!
was it hard to set up?
I would like to do something just like that for my type set
Groucho Marx
Just to clear a few things up :
Vargha was booted ONLY because he made a remark about Joe Orlando's daughter that
if Joe would had made the same remark about Vargha's daughter, Vargha would have punched Joe out. Nuff said.
Jim - good to see you back.
As for the prices of cards going down,
it just ain't happening for anything I'm collecting. Everything's has at least doubled in just the last year.
"How about a little fire Scarecrow ?"
For what it is worth, I e-bayed a 62 Landrum in an 8 a few years ago (the only one that existed for quite some time) and got less than $400 for it. Perhaps demand is now up for the card. I know it still may be the scarcest regular issue Topps card in the 60's decade in high grade.
Re: Don Louchios
He is not qualityhorseracing
I've been selling almost exclusively graded T206's on e-bay for over a year now, and the greatest sight for a seller's eyes are Don Louchios and Don Spence bidding on the same card.
Setbuilders Sports Cards
Ebay: set-builders & set-builders2
Tipem - with all due respect, my being a fool does not change the facts.
Vargha posted a remark in jest that crossed the line.
He may have been a valiant crusader for truth and justice but that isn't what got him booted.
Make a note to yourself : Revising history only works when those that witnessed it first hand are no longer around.
"How about a little fire Scarecrow ?"
Wow-spectacular. I love the way they are displayed.
I was not aware of this set--maybe when I have a few free hours I could list the cards I have in that set.
Who is Payne?
Good luck on your sets--stay in touch.
Jim
My computer guy set most of it up. I got the idea from Rustwilly. He has a hall of fame set up the same. I made a few changes including more clear scans and a changing thumbnail that will tell what the card is. I thought it would be neat seing that alot of guys here like to se scans. I now will add those acans to my Payne 300 card set. 16 more additions coming and plus the raw that are on the site. I will be sending them off to PSA soon with the rest of ny 89 Upper Decks. I hope to finish the set in all 10's before next year awards. I need 21 more and have 5 examples of each to submit.
Jim
Will be nice to see the update. I know your getting close to the homestretch
Dave
I would be interested if you feel you can disclose the information to me who bought the Landrum. I asked the guy who has the #1 62 set and he didn't know where this pop 1 card was either. Without a doubt, this is the most difficult regular Topps issue card of the 60s. Needless to say, it would go for well above $400. Don't want to speculate here as I would be a serious bidder for the card should it appear.
You are right about Spence and Don. Can't recall if I ever won bidding against them. I believe they are both focused on 39 Play Ball and perhaps 40 Play Ball as well--doesn't look like I will be finishing those anytime soon.
Wolfbear,
First thanks for all the fb cards--As I get down to the final cards on all the Fleer sets and most Topps sets that I haven't completed. pls consider selling directly to me and keeping the cards off ebay. I would buy 8s or 9s to fill holes or upgrade.
Lastly to all on David,
I consider David a good friend of mine and would defend him to the limit if I knew the facts. I don't think even David knew the facts. At the time, there was a lot of controversy about PSA's handling of several situations and David was vocal(as was I). PSA obviously did not want to discuss certain things. Was David's comment mentioned earlier here the straw that broke the camel's back? Possibly(maybe probably)--but do not believe the reasoning has ever been disclosed.
Jim
<< <i>Without a doubt, this is the most difficult regular Topps issue card of the 60s. Needless to say, it would go for well above $400. Don't want to speculate here as I would be a serious bidder for the card should it appear. >>
Here's a 7 that ended yesterday PSA 7 62 Landrum
My ebay listings
As David has shared with me, he has never met Joe Orlando, doesn't even know if Joe Orlando has a daughter, a son or a doberman pinscher and doesn't really care either. David's issue with Joe was on a perceived lack of integrity, most notably on the issue of WIWAG, where Joe himself came on the boards and promised full diclosure once the case was settled. David and others are still waiting for that explanation. (As for me, I fully believe that it was maybe only 500-1,000 total cards that were all modern and that everything has been fully accounted for.) David still submits to PSA (as well as SGC) and participates in the PSA Set Registry. What he doesn't care for is what he sees as duplicity or the lack of personal accountability from people who think it is better to hide the truth than to own up to mistkes that have been made.
Now as for me, I personally think that Joe Orlando does as close to perfect a job as humanly possible and that PSA would flounder without him being at the helm. I am just telling you what David shared with me. So there you have it. Perhaps David Vargha is misunderstood or more than likely, he is part of a loosely-knit group of people that includes such shady characters as Dan McKee and Frank Fried, who are intent on bringing down both PSA and the entire world of sportscard collecting. Shoot, the more I think about it, as soon as he gives me my share of the money from selling our 1955 Double Headers, I will likely sever my relationship with him. Just wrting this post has given me time to reflect on Vargha's true nature.
The person who won the card had a proxy bidder bid for him and pay for him. It was someone from New York City called "the Rabbi" (I think). If you know who that is, I'd be interested in knowing myself.
Setbuilders Sports Cards
Ebay: set-builders & set-builders2
And this is exactly what i was talking about in the begginning ...there is simply no way to know which card will truly be a low pop. its a risk calculation...thats where specific knowledge on the set really pays off.
I hope Vargha is allowed to come back...it would be a boost to the one armed black muslim midget community.
Groucho Marx
The Rabbi is in fact a "famous" New York collector who I have met at the Ft. Washington show having been introduced to him by the "King of Vintage Basketball"--Mike Rakosi.
Among other sets I believe he currently has the #1 set for 1956 Topps Baseball under Ruby. He at one time also had the top 1958 set.
I also believe that he was the winner in a Mastro auction a while back for an unopened box or boxes of 1952 Topps.
I may try to call Rakosi and see if the Rabbi still has the card.
Jim
Landrum is a pop 20 in psa 7 and goes for $250. Its a pop1 in psa 8 and you think it would go for just $1,000? I'm a buyer at $1,000.
I've known someone else who has left the boards and come back and left the boards and come back and left the boards and come back so perhaps there is hope. David posts on Network 54 and some other board that for some reason I can't remember the name of.
Jim
Mike Payne wrote a book with pictures "300 Great Baseball Cards of the 20th Century"
I Believe it is somehow tied into Beckett Publications. Chipper Jones wrote the Foreword. The book has a little history with each of the photo's. Pretty cool reading.
As far as who is Mike Payne don't know who he is but I am quite certain someone on this board does. The book can be purchased on Amazon for under 20 bucks
Dave
<< <i>phreaky: I was primarily commenting on wolfbear's assertion that "if Joe would had made the same remark about Vargha's daughter, Vargha would have punched Joe out." I have spoken with David and he is both amused and amazed that such an innocuous comment would get such a response from Joe Orlando (if indeed that is what actually happened). First of all, if you read the thread that is referred to, it talks about a Calendar that PSA put out. I assume, not having seen it, that there was nothing compromising in it. So for someone to take the leap that the comment of "Joe's daughter is Miss February, I hear " was somehow worthy of a fistfight or a banning from the CU boards shows oversensitivity on their part. If Joe Orlando were really that thin-skinned (and I seriously doubt that a president of a company that is part of a publicly traded corporation could possibly be that sensitive) it's very sad. >>
I'm not saying I agree with what happened. All I know is that the calendar comment was the only inflammatory thing I recall David writing on the board around that time. It was also one of his last posts ever. I'm just putting two and two together.
<< <i>Landrum is a pop 20 in psa 7 and goes for $250. Its a pop1 in psa 8 and you think it would go for just $1,000? I'm a buyer at $1,000. >>
Gee Jim, I could have used you a couple of years ago! There just was very limited competition for 62's at the time. If it had been a low pop 61 then, it would have gone for much much more. Offer the rabbi a grand and maybe he's a seller.
Setbuilders Sports Cards
Ebay: set-builders & set-builders2
Collect primarily 1959-1963 Topps Baseball
set registry id Don Johnson Collection
ebay id truecollector14