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I NEED to vent..... I now hate Heritage.... a lot....

PeacemanPeaceman Posts: 5,098
in U.S. Coin Forum
Anyone have this happen to them.... I pull up Heritage's web site on Thursday (as I do every day... several times a day) to check new inventory... I find a NGC MS-65 VAM 7B LDS that they just put up... finest known, very rare coin... I buy it and then get an email on Friday saying that this coin is at the coin show and that it may not be available... WTF. Anyone here EVER buy a coin on their site and NOT get it?

Of course, today I get an email saying it's been sold... a common date 65 sold... gee, wonder why...image

I'm sooooooo pissed... We'll see how they handle it....
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Comments

  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,216 ✭✭✭✭✭
    All coins are subject to prior sale. They're also subject to the dealer realizing what they have....
    Early Dollar Set
  • LongacreLongacre Posts: 16,717 ✭✭✭
    Didn't this happen to someone else on the boards?
    Always took candy from strangers
    Didn't wanna get me no trade
    Never want to be like papa
    Working for the boss every night and day
    --"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
  • PTVETTERPTVETTER Posts: 6,028 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I believe this happened to some one here and it was a winning bid and recorded so. Then they couldn't find the coin in thier inventory. To top it all off they didn't reveal all to the board member, untill it ALL showed up on the board here with all the email traffic both ways. Then ALL of a sudden it went away.
    Pat Vetter,Mercury Dime registry set,1938 Proof set registry,Pat & BJ Coins:724-325-7211


  • PeacemanPeaceman Posts: 5,098
    I know when you buy something from them that it says that there is a remote chance that it is already sold.... I just dont like it...
  • ziggy29ziggy29 Posts: 18,668 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I believe this happened to some one here and it was a winning bid and recorded so. Then they couldn't find the coin in thier inventory. To top it all off they didn't reveal all to the board member, untill it ALL showed up on the board here with all the email traffic both ways. Then ALL of a sudden it went away. >>

    I seem to remember someone here having a problem like that with Superior. Did smoeone also have such a beef with Heritage before?
  • EagleEyeEagleEye Posts: 7,677 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Shudda gone to Santa Clara.

    If you really wanted it, you couldhave gotten the cell phone number of someone there and asked them to hold it. In an instance where you see a great cherrypick, you need to go the extra mile to get your prize.
    Rick Snow, Eagle Eye Rare Coins, Inc.Check out my new web site:
  • saintgurusaintguru Posts: 7,727 ✭✭✭
    I agree with eagleeye. You can always get someone on the phone to BUY.
    image
  • PeacemanPeaceman Posts: 5,098
    If you dont collect vams or look for vams you have no idea of the "extra mile" we go through.... A lot of time is invested in each win... It took me 3 years to find ONE 1923 1E.... 3 years... Now lets say that 5 of your VAM buddies finally find this same coin too after the same amount of time.... not only did you have to WAIT all of that time... NOW you have to pay moon money for it... if it's up on Heritage... then forget it, the guys with deep wallets have it....

    I went the extra mile with Heritage but it was already gone.... they are working already to "resolve" the issue. I'll let you know what happens...

    I like VAM's because a millionaire can put together a MS_66 Peace $ set in a WEEK, smile and show all of his friends how well well he did.... but he cant do that with VAM's.... the little guy wins in VAM collecting... That's what I like about it.....image
  • moosesrmoosesr Posts: 1,966 ✭✭✭
    What date was the coin?
  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,216 ✭✭✭✭✭
    they are working already to "resolve" the issue

    Resolve what issue? It seems they did nothing wrong whatsoever...
    Early Dollar Set
  • markglickermarkglicker Posts: 1,486 ✭
    A website purchase, is not an Ebay Buy-it-now. You own nothing, until the purchase is confirmed. I have "lost" a coin, at virtually every dealer. Never intentional on their part.
  • ziggy29ziggy29 Posts: 18,668 ✭✭✭
    In the days before the Internet, we just accepted that a coin published for sale in Coin World, Coinage, or some other magazine was subject to prior sale. If you wrote or called, you could be told it was already gone. In fact, many of the ads mentioned that "second choices" were appreciated.

    Granted, we live in a faster-paced time and there's no excuse for publishing a month-old inventory on your website like they did in the days of print advertising. But it's still usually not in real-time. And taking the good stuff to the big shows is just the way business is done.

    It's frustrating to find something you really wanted only to find out you've been beaten to it. But nothing was lost here, and no money changed hands, therefore there is no transaction and certainly no "contract" to sell.
  • DeadhorseDeadhorse Posts: 3,720 ✭


    << <i>Shudda gone to Santa Clara.

    If you really wanted it, you couldhave gotten the cell phone number of someone there and asked them to hold it. In an instance where you see a great cherrypick, you need to go the extra mile to get your prize. >>




    Shudda gone to Santa Clara???

    I'm sorry, don't take this personally, but that's a chickenshift response.

    Gee, you mean you really wanted that GT-40 you paid for? You should have gone to Dearborn personally, you should know somebody at the top and have their cellphone number.

    That's pure crap! It smacks of insider deals, which leans towards unethical business practices. Why anyone ever wonders the reason that dealers have bad names is beyond me.

    I wish I could sell something and then not deliver because I get a better offer a day or two later.

    If this is the way they do business, then anyone who isn't on the inside circle should boycott them. I guess I'll check them off my list if this is the way it went down.

    Sure, accidents happen, but to defend it as if the buyer should have had to jump through hoops, as if the buyer is somehow at fault here is pure nonsense.

    Defending the indefensible is always an exercise in futility and a sure way to lose credibility.

    I'll be very interested to see how this developes, if Peaceman is just shafted and that's the end of it, then this post should be bumped to the top everyday until there is some sort of resolution.

    "Lenin is certainly right. There is no subtler or more severe means of overturning the existing basis of society(destroy capitalism) than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and it does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose."
    John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,216 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Oh, puh-leeze.
    Early Dollar Set
  • EagleEyeEagleEye Posts: 7,677 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Shudda gone to Santa Clara???

    I'm sorry, don't take this personally, but that's a chickenshift response.

    Gee, you mean you really wanted that GT-40 you paid for? You should have gone to Dearborn personally, you should know somebody at the top and have their cellphone number.

    That's pure crap! It smacks of insider deals, which leans towards unethical business practices. Why anyone ever wonders the reason that dealers have bad names is beyond me.

    I wish I could sell something and then not deliver because I get a better offer a day or two later.

    If this is the way they do business, then anyone who isn't on the inside circle should boycott them. I guess I'll check them off my list if this is the way it went down.

    Sure, accidents happen, but to defend it as if the buyer should have had to jump through hoops, as if the buyer is somehow at fault here is pure nonsense.

    Defending the indefensible is always an exercise in futility and a sure way to lose credibility.

    I'll be very interested to see how this developes, if Peaceman is just shafted and that's the end of it, then this post should be bumped to the top everyday until there is some sort of resolution.



    Shudda had decaf this morning
    Rick Snow, Eagle Eye Rare Coins, Inc.Check out my new web site:
  • goose3goose3 Posts: 11,471 ✭✭✭
    No one got "Shafted".

    If the coin is not there, it's not there. If it sold at the show, then that's reality.

    You cannot expect anyone that deals in coins, whether a dealer or a company, on a website AND at shows to list items exclusively on the website. Their job is to sell coins and you do that with maximum exposure.

  • DeadhorseDeadhorse Posts: 3,720 ✭


    << <i>Oh, puh-leeze. >>



    Puh-leeze is right. I'm astounded at the responses here. By the time I posted what I did, there were so many defenders that I couldn't believe it.

    Silly me. I forgot ethics aren't a part of this business.
    "Lenin is certainly right. There is no subtler or more severe means of overturning the existing basis of society(destroy capitalism) than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and it does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose."
    John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,216 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Silly me. I forgot ethics aren't a part of this business.

    Silly me - I forgot common sense isn't part of this chatroom. image

    Heritage did nothing wrong. What's wrong is to come here busting them for a perfectly reasonable outcome. And for others to accuse them of being unethical....
    Early Dollar Set
  • DeadhorseDeadhorse Posts: 3,720 ✭


    << <i>Silly me. I forgot ethics aren't a part of this business.

    Silly me - I forgot common sense isn't part of this chatroom. image >>




    Rude behavior apparently is. I've seen your name next to it on many occasions.

    I wasn't making any personal attack and stated as such. You immediatly took it there.
    "Lenin is certainly right. There is no subtler or more severe means of overturning the existing basis of society(destroy capitalism) than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and it does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose."
    John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
  • ziggy29ziggy29 Posts: 18,668 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I wasn't making any personal attack and stated as such. You immediatly took it there. >>

    Beg to differ. Regardless of whether or not the responses you got were above-board, at one point, you wrote: Silly me. I forgot ethics aren't a part of this business.

    That seems to me a clearly implied attack on the ethics of those who don't agree with you.

    Having said that, I'll bow out of this one now. I just read your original comment about ethics as a personal attack myself.
  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,216 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm sorry - did I forget to say 'don't take it personally'?
    Early Dollar Set
  • Crazy4CoinsCrazy4Coins Posts: 1,922 ✭✭✭
    1922
    Randy


    The Whisker Cheek Collection - Top 50 Peace VAM Registry
    Landmark Buffalo Collection
  • DeadhorseDeadhorse Posts: 3,720 ✭


    << <i>

    << <i>I wasn't making any personal attack and stated as such. You immediatly took it there. >>

    Beg to differ. Regardless of whether or not the responses you got were above-board, at one point, you wrote: Silly me. I forgot ethics aren't a part of this business.

    That seems to me a clearly implied attack on the ethics of those who don't agree with you. >>



    Certainly a generalized implication of dealers, but not directed at anyone individually.
    "Lenin is certainly right. There is no subtler or more severe means of overturning the existing basis of society(destroy capitalism) than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and it does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose."
    John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
  • IrishMikeIrishMike Posts: 7,737 ✭✭✭
    Good grief Charley Brown. image and TDN quit blaming it on the coffee. image
  • FairlanemanFairlaneman Posts: 10,426 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Its about time that a little pissin match got going here.

    This place has been dead !

    Ken
  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,216 ✭✭✭✭✭
    but not directed at anyone individually.

    Yet placed squarely in a thread about Heritage. image

    Early Dollar Set
  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,216 ✭✭✭✭✭
    and TDN quit blaming it on the coffee

    twarn't me - you take that back! image
    Early Dollar Set
  • IrishMikeIrishMike Posts: 7,737 ✭✭✭


    << <i>and TDN quit blaming it on the coffee

    twarn't me - you take that back! image >>



    Ok so I say it back. image
  • DeadhorseDeadhorse Posts: 3,720 ✭


    << <i>but not directed at anyone individually.

    Yet placed squarely in a thread about Heritage. image >>



    Yep.

    But only because this thread happens to be about Heritage. I've bought from them before with no problems.

    I'd feel the same regardless of the dealer in question.
    "Lenin is certainly right. There is no subtler or more severe means of overturning the existing basis of society(destroy capitalism) than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and it does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose."
    John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,216 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'd feel the same regardless of the dealer in question.

    Yeah.

    There's nothing unethical about taking inventory to a show to sell it. They take boxes and boxes and boxes of coins that are picked thru by dealer after dealer. All in hopes of selling a few coins so they can stay in business.

    How horrid!
    Early Dollar Set
  • markglickermarkglicker Posts: 1,486 ✭
    then this post should be bumped to the top everyday until there is some sort of resolution.

    You can be the official bumper, Deadhorse?image It happens, no dealer can be held to a web sale. An auction, is another matter.
  • DeadhorseDeadhorse Posts: 3,720 ✭


    << <i>then this post should be bumped to the top everyday until there is some sort of resolution.

    You can be the official bumper, Deadhorse?image It happens, no dealer can be held to a web sale. An auction, is another matter. >>



    Come on, Mark. You're one of the good guys.

    Would it be too much to post a phone number next to an item that might be at a show?

    I'd think that would be the proper way to do things. I realize I'm obviously in the minority in my thinking on this.
    "Lenin is certainly right. There is no subtler or more severe means of overturning the existing basis of society(destroy capitalism) than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and it does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose."
    John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,216 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hmmm - no junk emails for years and now six in the last few minutes. Speaking of unethical behavior....
    Early Dollar Set
  • DeadhorseDeadhorse Posts: 3,720 ✭


    << <i>Hmmm - no junk emails for years and now six in the last few minutes. Speaking of unethical behavior.... >>



    WTF is that supposed to mean?

    "Lenin is certainly right. There is no subtler or more severe means of overturning the existing basis of society(destroy capitalism) than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and it does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose."
    John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
  • ttownttown Posts: 4,472 ✭✭✭
    If it were my business and I had the coin at a show but someone purchased it on the internet I would have used my cell phone to have the coin pulled or got back with the internet buyer the same day to inform him it'd been sold. Big business isn't it great. First come first served is the only fair way to do this. I don't know if the coin was sold or not the day he purchased it on the internet but it's just plain lazy not to treat all valued customers fairly.JMO image
  • SDCollectorSDCollector Posts: 886 ✭✭
    I think you guys are beating a dead horse.
    Bill
  • streeterstreeter Posts: 4,312 ✭✭✭✭✭
    holy cow.

    It's reasonable to expect some coins to be sold during a national show. And the webmaster(who probably didn't attend the show) not revising the site until the beginning of the following week.

    Dissapointments happen in life.

    Geesh.
    Have a nice day
  • SmittysSmittys Posts: 9,876 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I think you guys are beating a dead horse. >>

    image
    https://www.ebay.com/str/christyscoins
  • SDCollectorSDCollector Posts: 886 ✭✭
    I can't believe it took 2 pages before someone said that. Russ must be out to lunch.
    Bill
  • RussRuss Posts: 48,514 ✭✭✭


    << <i>In the days before the Internet, we just accepted that a coin published for sale in Coin World, Coinage, or some other magazine was subject to prior sale. If you wrote or called, you could be told it was already gone. In fact, many of the ads mentioned that "second choices" were appreciated. >>



    People seem to have forgotten this. The fact is that many items we purchase are subject to prior sale. There is nothing unusual about it, and there is no foul perpetrated by Heritage. I know it's frustrating when you miss out on a cherrypick, (since I LIVE for the cherrypick), but such is the nature of the hunting ground.

    Russ, NCNE
    eBay consignment sales | | Collectibles from Resco CCC
  • ERER Posts: 7,345 ✭


    << <i>

    << <i>I think you guys are beating a dead horse. >>

    image >>


    image
  • PeacemanPeaceman Posts: 5,098
    Wow... step away from the computer for an hour..... image Anyway.... a couple of things.... Heritage put this up on Thursday afternoon... in the morning, it wasn't up... so I bought it about an hour after it posted to their site.... You'd THINK it'd be available... ? Why post it to the site if it's going to a show... ? Must be their system.....

    Anyways... they are contacting the buyer now (I didn't ask them to do it) to see if he'll give it up.... or, It looks like they will hand pick another variety not on their web site right now for me..... Interesting.... and not expected.... Kudos thus far... we'll see where she goes...

    (ok... go back to fighting now...)
  • ss350camaross350camaro Posts: 4,529
    I would have called Heritage as soon as i saw the coin on their website. This would have alleviated quite a bit of stress all around image



  • saintgurusaintguru Posts: 7,727 ✭✭✭
    This is so stupid. The coin was available. You MISSED it. Now you drag Heritage into the mud as if they DID it to you?

    Poor loser. image
    image
  • PeacemanPeaceman Posts: 5,098
    ? I'm just stating the facts....

    1) They put it on their web site....
    2) I bought it within an hour of it being posted.... (not like it was up for days)
    3) After a day they tell me that it's at a show and they'll put a hold on it.
    4) Today they inform me it's not available......

    Yea, I'm a little upset... when I click the "buy" button... I guess, heck, well, yes,... I'm buying the coin....

    JB, you're right... I need to go throw a tantrum now... be back soon...

  • ShamikaShamika Posts: 18,785 ✭✭✭✭
    I've learned the hard way that if I see a cherrypick on a dealer's website I phone the dealer IMMEDIATELY! I've lost two super finds by just going through the online checkout only to be told later that the coin already sold.

    I sincerely feel your pain Peaceman.
    Buyer and seller of vintage coin boards!
  • PeacemanPeaceman Posts: 5,098
    TRY to put a hold on it.... I could print a transcript for you if you like.........image
  • SUPERCARCOINSSUPERCARCOINS Posts: 1,152
    ....To say Heritage did nothing wrong is folly...............they have pulled more double dealin',quick shufflin',boners then I care to list .
    To defend them (Heritage) is like smearing poop on all the people's faces they screwed over all these years .
  • BlindedByEgoBlindedByEgo Posts: 10,754 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I always thought "passionate coin collector" was an oxymoron.

    I've enjoyed the meltdown(s) HeeHeeHee

    I keep hearing in the back of my mind the ungrateful brat chanting "Would you like a little cheeeeeze with that Whiiiiine?"

    Thanks for the free entertainment, guys. I hope that I see a pithy contribution by the Wise Old Bear...

    I think Heritage will bend over backwards to make you happy.

    Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1

  • Freak1cFreak1c Posts: 714
    Without sounding rude, get used to it. We are going to begin seeing this happen often in the near future from all auction houses. They will be stating sub clauses in the auction if they are not already. Sorry to hear this happening to you, I can imagine your frustration.

    Tom

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