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How long can NGC afford to have NCS around ?

FairlanemanFairlaneman Posts: 10,426 ✭✭✭✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum
Just curious. Every classic coin I have seen that has been conserved by NCS and then put in a NGC slab is a total mess and plain ugly.

Ken

Comments

  • FatManFatMan Posts: 8,977 ✭
    It is probably not a surprise but image




    I think they will need to move into some kind of damage control soon. The real nail in their coffin (HRH, are you listening?) would be if PCGS or ANACS took on an active policy in awarding crusty original coins with a special designation.
  • DeadhorseDeadhorse Posts: 3,720 ✭
    Just sent my first ever coin to NCS yesterday. An 88-S Morgan that will either come back worth several hundred bucks or in a body bag. Either way, I don't have much over melt invested in it.

    Keeping fingers crossed.
    "Lenin is certainly right. There is no subtler or more severe means of overturning the existing basis of society(destroy capitalism) than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and it does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose."
    John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
  • JadeRareCoinJadeRareCoin Posts: 2,768 ✭

    NCS was a clever marketing thought, but it should have never been launched. They took it too far, imho, and people started sending in coins not to be curated, but rather "enhanced" in the name of higher profits. Some coins truly do need to be curated for the sake of preservation, but I would guess that most coins sent to NCS do not need to be "conserved".
    www.jaderarecoin.com - Updated 6/8/06. Many new coins added!

    Our eBay auctions - TRUE auctions: start at $0.01, no reserve, 30 day unconditional return privilege & free shipping!
  • topstuftopstuf Posts: 14,803 ✭✭✭✭✭
    OR.....it may .....REVERT.....to original problem. But not until ....AFTER.... it has found a new home in a reputable (til now) holder.

    This was one of mine:
    image
  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 24,361 ✭✭✭✭✭
    How long can NGC afford to have NCS around ?

    Forever. NCS is a gold mine.
    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • Dave99BDave99B Posts: 8,645 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ken, I could not agree more.

    I believe it has tainted NGC’s reputation, just as net grading tainted ANACS.

    Is PCGS management smarter? Yup....

    Dave
    Always looking for original, better date VF20-VF35 Barber quarters and halves, and a quality beer.
  • FairlanemanFairlaneman Posts: 10,426 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>How long can NGC afford to have NCS around ?

    Forever. NCS is a gold mine. >>



    NCS may be the Gold Mine that turns NGC into a second tier grading service if they are not already. Fourteen coins received today can attest to that fact. All ugly, all junk and all wrecked for no reason at all and then put into NGC slabs. What is NGC thinking when they put this junk in their slabs ?

    Another item that is pathetic is when a Auction Company does not say Boo about the obvious "Enhancement Job" that has been done to a complete lot of coins they are selling. This is two auctions in a row, by different companys, for this pathetic behavior.

    Ken
  • MyqqyMyqqy Posts: 9,777 ✭
    NCS is a gold mine. >>

    Does anybody have any info on the amount of coins they have conserved every month? I am curious about how much money it makes them....
    My style is impetuous, my defense is impregnable !
  • MyqqyMyqqy Posts: 9,777 ✭
    All ugly, all junk and all wrecked for no reason at all and then put into NGC slabs

    Do you have pics? image
    My style is impetuous, my defense is impregnable !
  • mercurydimeguymercurydimeguy Posts: 4,625 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>All ugly, all junk and all wrecked for no reason at all and then put into NGC slabs >>



    Grading services are are all different but everyone has their strengths and weaknesses.


  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 24,361 ✭✭✭✭✭
    but everyone has their strengths and weaknesses.

    That is very understanding of you! image
    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • WTCGWTCG Posts: 8,940 ✭✭✭
    NCS will be around for as long as NGC will be. Coin conservation is big business.
    Follow me on Twitter @wtcgroup
    Authorized dealer for PCGS, PCGS Currency, NGC, NCS, PMG, CAC. Member of the PNG, ANA. Member dealer of CoinPlex and CCE/FACTS as "CH5"
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,606 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If NCS goes out of business, how many collectors will "conserve" their own coins? And what will the results look like? Food for thought.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • FairlanemanFairlaneman Posts: 10,426 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>All ugly, all junk and all wrecked for no reason at all and then put into NGC slabs

    Do you have pics? image >>



    Sure, it will be the subject of a grade the merc thread later on.

    imageimage

    Ken
  • robertprrobertpr Posts: 6,862 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>All ugly, all junk and all wrecked for no reason at all and then put into NGC slabs

    Do you have pics? image >>



    Sure, it will be the subject of a grade the merc thread later on.

    imageimage

    Ken >>



    And, the before pics?
  • FairlanemanFairlaneman Posts: 10,426 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>All ugly, all junk and all wrecked for no reason at all and then put into NGC slabs

    Do you have pics? image >>



    Sure, it will be the subject of a grade the merc thread later on.

    imageimage

    Ken >>



    And, the before pics? >>



    No clue on the before pictures. I sent one coin to NCS about 2 years ago and learned my lesson real quick. Since then I avoid their handy work when I know about it. Some Auction companys and dealers do not disclose that a coin has been conserved by NCS. Probably if they did the coins would bring very little money if any.

    Ken
  • fivecentsfivecents Posts: 11,207 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think it SUCKS that NGC doesn't mark the slabs that were run thru NCS. When ever I see a questionable looking coin in a NCG slab I have to wonder..."Has this coin been professionally messed with".image
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,606 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I think it SUCKS that NGC doesn't mark the slabs that were run thru NCS. When ever I see a questionable looking coin in a NCG slab I have to wonder..."Has this coin been professionally messed with".image >>



    I've seen plenty of "conserved" coins in PCGS holders so let's don't just single out NGC.


    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • nwcsnwcs Posts: 13,386 ✭✭✭
    People were dipping coins before NCS. If NCS goes away people will continue to be dipping coins. What difference does it make? At least with NCS you know they'll likely do a better job than 99% of the people who would dip anyway.
    Blog and Pics
  • BlackhawkBlackhawk Posts: 3,899 ✭✭✭
    My beef with the NGC/NCS situation is that it seems (at least to me) that an awful lot of coins sent to NGC get bagged and sent back with a little slip telling you that the coin would benefit from a vist to NCS. I wonder what the percentage of pre-NCS and post-NCS bodybags are from NGC.
    "Have a nice day!"
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,606 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>My beef with the NGC/NCS situation is that it seems (at least to me) that an awful lot of coins sent to NGC get bagged and sent back with a little slip telling you that the coin would benefit from a vist to NCS. I wonder what the percentage of pre-NCS and post-NCS bodybags are from NGC. >>



    Many of these coins have PVC contamination and are not suitable candidates for slabbing.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • ToneloverTonelover Posts: 1,554 ✭
    Ken, as long as the largest NGC submitters are among the largest NCS users (yes, it's about the upgrades) they can afford to stay around for a long time. On the other end, a large number collectors, most of whom are new to the hobby thanks to the internet actually prefer coins that look like that. It's a win-win for all of them. It's a big lose however for people such as yourself who are able to see the forest through the trees. It's supposed to be about the coins but as you know, it's all about the money.

    The little guys like you and me can vote with our checkbooks but we're not even costing them lunch money.
  • FairlanemanFairlaneman Posts: 10,426 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>People were dipping coins before NCS. If NCS goes away people will continue to be dipping coins. What difference does it make? At least with NCS you know they'll likely do a better job than 99% of the people who would dip anyway. >>



    I believe there is a huge difference between dipping a coins surface and completely stripping a coins surface. Untill I see a coin that has been conserved by NCS that looks somewhat natural I would say the casual dipper has a 1% better success rate.

    Ken
  • IrishMikeIrishMike Posts: 7,737 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I think it SUCKS that NGC doesn't mark the slabs that were run thru NCS. When ever I see a questionable looking coin in a NCG slab I have to wonder..."Has this coin been professionally messed with".image >>



    Just exactly where have you been? The game has been for years to crack out dip and resubmit. I don't like dipped coins at all, but not all our so obvious. Would you rather have a collector buy a coin at a show take it back to the hotel, dip it, take it back and have it regraded or a collector send a coin into a professional to conserve?

    Let's not all of a sudden get naive about this hobby. If you don't like em dipped then don't buy them. We have members here who send coins to NCS to conserve then ship off to PCGS to have graded. How come when they tell us this, we don't see the same amount of disgust posted?image
  • fivecentsfivecents Posts: 11,207 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I've seen plenty of "conserved" coins in PCGS holders so let's don't just single out NGC. >>

    PCGS isn't in bed with a coin conservation company like NGC, so let's don't just lump them together.







    << <i>Just exactly where have you been? The game has been for years to crack out dip and resubmit. >>

    NCS does more than just dipping a coin in acetone and jewel luster. If you don't realize that then you are the naive one. How far will NCS go ? Who knows? NCS never reveals what they have done to a coin.
  • paigowjohnnypaigowjohnny Posts: 4,257 ✭
    Jeez...if you don't like NCS or NGC...then DON'T USE THEM OR BUY ANY NGC GRADED COINS !!!

    image
  • fivecentsfivecents Posts: 11,207 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Jeez...if you don't like NCS or NGC...then DON'T USE THEM OR BUY ANY NGC GRADED COINS !!! >>

    Nope I'm afraid not.
    It's called coins 101....BUY THE COIN AND NOT THE HOLDER.image
  • TorinoCobra71TorinoCobra71 Posts: 8,054 ✭✭✭
    dont forget the "NCS Shine"

    TorinoCobra71

    image
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,606 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>I've seen plenty of "conserved" coins in PCGS holders so let's don't just single out NGC. >>

    PCGS isn't in bed with a coin conservation company like NGC, so let's don't just lump them together. >>



    You don't think these coins get crossed to PCGS? You don't think PCGS slabs coins cleaned by collectors? Let's face it. ALL slabbing services slab cleaned coins provided they aren't harshly cleaned.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • dbldie55dbldie55 Posts: 7,739 ✭✭✭✭✭
    PCGS has no problem with coins sent through NCS. They grade them the same way NGC does.
    Collector and Researcher of Liberty Head Nickels. ANA LM-6053
  • paigowjohnnypaigowjohnny Posts: 4,257 ✭


    << <i>It's called coins 101....BUY THE COIN AND NOT THE HOLDER. >>



    Couldn't agree more...but if some guys are SOOOOO worried that they may be getting an NCS "treated" piece in an NGC holder...then don't even bother looking at NGC slabbed coins.....

    I realize this is the PCGS board...but GEEZ !!
  • fivecentsfivecents Posts: 11,207 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I would feel the EXACT same way about PCGS being in bed with a conservation company as I do NCG. You guys always want to make it a PCGS verses NCG arguement.



    << <i>You don't think these coins get crossed to PCGS? >>

    Some coins do, some coins get bagged...same with NCG so what?
    Regardless what TPGS slabs the coins NCS is the one doing the conserving period.
  • topstuftopstuf Posts: 14,803 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The ....only.... problem with the setup is the proximity of the parties. It is OBVIOUSLY beneficial to BOTH parties to get the coins in slabs. There may be absolutely no pressure from either or there could be complete collusion. Everyone who says that the "conserved" coins could go to ANY tpg is correct. It's just playing the odds that makes a table.
  • DHeathDHeath Posts: 8,472 ✭✭✭
    Anybody ever own a classic coin dipped in cyanide?
    Developing theory is what we are meant to do as academic researchers
    and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor

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