Collectors Universe or Investors Universe???

elwood

It amazes me how often the price levels of coins, current market conditions or future market conditions for coins come up in many thread topics posted on these boards.

With what appears to be a considerable amount of worry about market conditions. If it's that big of a worry....... SELL!!! And find a different hobby.

How can a hobby be enjoyable if valuations of your collection is such a concern?

Are we investors or are we hobbyists?







<< <i><< coins are not an investment >> >>




<< <i>If you obtain a coin for more than face value, here is some news: you just made an investment. >>




<< <i>I can't stand it when people say coins are not an investment. >>



COINS ARE NOT AN INVESTMENT!!!!!!!!!!

When you buy a coin, you have invested in coins. When you buy a boat, you have invested in a boat. When purchasing a boat it doesn't mean your boat is an investment. You don't worry about the value of your boat or whether your boat will go up or down in value?

The only way coins could be considered an investment, is if.....you buy coins with the idea of deriving income or a profit out of them, then it's an investment. If you buy them for enjoyment, then they are not an investment.

COIN COLLECTING IS A HOBBY!!!!

You buy collectibles or start a hobby because you take pleasure in the hobby. Whether it's the hunt or the challenge, the research, the history and lore or the enjoyment of developing friendships with fellow collectors who share similar interests.



Do it for the fun and quit worrying about the money. If you think prices are too high and out of your comfort zone. Don't buy!!!
If you need to worry about the value of your collection, it's value is probably a larger percent of your net worth than it should be.

Buy coins to enjoy them, their beauty and their history. Be a steward of coins so future generations can enjoy.

JJM

collector , hobbiest,....with the luxury of a potential return or profit if need be,..i.e. , buy what you like , but be patient is my motto

Coinhusker1

For many people, investing is a hobby.

MrEureka

Why would I care if other people get stressed out over coin prices? Not my problem. Let them play the game however they please.

BlindedByEgo

<< <i>Why would I care if other people get stressed out over coin prices? Not my problem. Let them play the game however they please. >>

coppercoins

<< <i>Why would I care if other people get stressed out over coin prices? Not my problem. Let them play the game however they please. >>



Precisely.

I just skip over all the blather about pop-tops, registry sets, slabbing and how the companies aren't fair (even though people still vemiantly feed the monster), and all the other crap I couldn't care less about...mostly that which has to do with slabs, investing in coins, and the need for the highest grades available, even if that's not what the coin really is. A few of the other things I skip are discussions about people sending in common pocket change to have it slabbed, sending in proof coins thinking that grades above 66 are some sort of rarity, and people whining and complaining about what other people do and how they do it.

Okay, so I break my own rules once in a while, but since they're mine I can break them. Just like my hobby is mine and I can do it however I please...and consider it rather insulting when someone else tells me that their way of doing it is the right way.

Edited: spelling error.

golddustin

I think that it is actually both at the same time. I have plenty of coins in my collection that are worth face value in the "market", but I collected them, so they are valuable to me.
Then again, I have coins that I purchased not only to enjoy, but also expecting a return on my investment over time. I enjoy the coins & take my "curator" job very seriously - just as any boat owner would be wise to take good care of their boat. Nice boats cost alot, but owners still derive much joy from the ownership, and I would think that they maintain the boat with the idea that one day it will belong to somebody else, and want to get as good a price as possible at that time.



<< <i>For many people, investing is a hobby. >>


I agree 100% with that - a very good analogy. I have made & lost money in both the stock market and in coins, and both have taught me good life lessons, and a basic set of rules that I try to follow. ( Just like Chuck, I sometimes have to break my own rules, though). In fact, when I go through a period of increased interest in my collection, I tend to ignore my stock portfolio, and visa versa. Obviously, in both cases I don't check prices constantly and/or worry about market fluctuations - I figure that if I have done due diligence, both fields will reap a nice harvest many years from now.

gyocomgd

Sorry, but the emphasis on hobby-only collecting is too high-minded for me. I get a rush esthetically from my coins and derive much pleasure from them in that way, but I derive a lot of peace of mind (and pleasure) when I score a minor rip or at least get a fair deal. It is not a zero-sum game for me. I can't afford to approach it in a fiscally irresponsible way. To knowingly buy a $200 coin that you can resell for only $120 someday strikes me as...well, idiotic.

Money ain't everything, but it's ahead of whatever's in second place.

TwoSides2aCoin

Collectors have the passion and love for coins... for more than Monetary reasons, while Investors do not.
Hobbyists are just having fun and the thought of profit or that great passion for Numismatics really isn't a concern, because it is merely a hobby or a fun little venture off the beaten path, which may or may not be profitable.

Money works two ways.... against us or for us.
Knowledge works one way. For us !
it is Knowledge that tells us an MS66 Red cent carries a little more value than a circulated brown one, no matter what year it is. A collector and investor may be embroiled in battle on the auction floor for that coin, by where the hobbyist laughs and scratches his head at the price.

I love high grade perfect coins, and I always will. No matter the year, type or denomination. They are the ones that will bring me the best return in later years. As a collector, I care if it is high grade. As a "hobbyist", I just might want to fill a hole and not care if the coin were FR-02 (yuck) and a common date..... but to a hobbyist, "that's cool".
As an investor, there is a look for pure profit and NOTHING ELSE !

When the three meet......... we end up with a thread in a forum somewhere out in cyberspace.

(just my opinion)

michael

buy scarce coins that have extra special qualities and superb eye appeal coins that are great opportunity value coins and coins you love and specialize in and have studied and learned about

with discretionary income ONLY

remembering that coins are NOT an investment

now there is no sure thing in this world ......................

but if you do the above you will be fine

oh and editied to add on thurs at 1255 am also as an added to per the above a coin with all the ABOVE QUALITIES THAT WHEN BROKEN OUT OF ITS RESPECTIVE HOLDER IT SELLS FOR ALMOST AS MUCH 90% OR MORE!!! than when it was in the holder

InYHWHWeTrust

<< <i>...
Are we investors or are we hobbyists?...
>>



I have posted elsewhere that this is a false dichotomy (either-or fallacy) and that is really more of a continuum. The subsequent questions in the original post allude to apparent, but not real, contradictions.

Also, where we are on this investor: hobbyist continuum may vary from series to series, e.g. Investing in high grade slabs and collecting (hobby-ing) Lincolns in Whitmans; or, dealers making a living in this game, and also who have their 'fun collections' on the side, totally de-emphasizing future profit:loss.

I picture it on a scale of say..... 1 to 70, with the pure investor being a 1 and pure hobbyist/collector being a 70

Don S

Darkmane

its what you make of it. for some it is 100% an investment. others, not whatsoever. i cant deny i want a good chunk of my money back when i decide to sell something, but i sure as hell dont do this to make money.... breaking even would be a miracle. you are INVESTING money in something when you buy it..... but in my eyes that does not (necessarily) make it an investment

FoundingFather

Coin collectors, unlike so many other collectors, are collecting MONEY and precious-metal-products too. So inherently there will often be an interest in money, or value. More importantly, I think most collectors are BUILDERS, and builders like to see things build and grow, including the value of their collection which usually represents a lot of time, shopping, judgement, and expertise.

So, I don't see why it shouldn't be deemed as a general combo (investor and collector), verses classifying it as either or. If you care about recouping money for what you bought one day and therefore work to not overpay, then you have at least a swirl of investing or savings going on.

Longacre

Personally, I collect for my own reasons, which may or may not be different from the next person. To each his own.

mgoodm3

Hell, I'm happy if I don't lose too much money when I sell coins. not much of an investment.

topstuf

It's inseparable. If it weren't, you'd be happy with stamps.
Rare & beautiful, cheap, ever cheaper, still rare, still beautiful.

Darkmane

<< <i>It's inseparable. If it weren't, you'd be happy with stamps.
Rare & beautiful, cheap, ever cheaper, still rare, still beautiful.
>>



i am interested in precious metals and money itself. stamp wouldnt do anything for me.

291fifth

The line "coins are not an investment" is bunk. Coin collectors are investment oriented, regardless of what they say.
This has been true for as long as I have been collecting (since 1961).

Market conditions are important and this forum helps determine just what the real conditions are.

topstuf

<< <i>i am interested in precious metals and money itself. stamp wouldnt do anything for me. >>



Res ipsa loquitur.

TahoeDale

Steve,

I agree with a lot of your statements, at least for the modest collector(using a smalll amount of funds to acquire nice but inexpensive dates and grades).

BUT, as in art (paintings and bronzes), antiques, and manuscripts, there are several levels of collecting that can command outlays of millions of dollars. And the more a person spends, the more information is needed(required) to justify the expenditure.

I would hope that the journey will be pleasurable for all, and the worries small. Clapp, Eliasberg, Norweb, Garrett, and more recently Lee, Morse, Scher, TDN, Jung, JHF, and others are collectors , just of a different brand than the average Joe.

All have a great passion for rare coins, and as far as I am concerned, that is all that is necessary to be a long time collector.

BillJones

I'll start up an "educational thread" now and then, but all I get about 10 or 12 responses.

People are interested acquiring coins and making money. Many don't care about the history part.

michael

I'll start up an "educational thread" now and then, but all I get about 10 or 12 responses.

People are interested ONLY in making money. Many don't care about the history part.

sellsatan

Bill Jones, please keep posting educational threads. There are actually some members here for those threads. I'm one of them.

michael

making money this proves it as every other post on the coin boards is about sleezebay

this is not or no where near a collector OR hobby boardsOR even learning boards

it is only well 99% lol about making monry if there was no buy sell trade boards on this site or you could not solicit coins for sale

this site would be dead as a door nail inside of two days or less!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

FoundingFather

But Michael, I think buying and selling is an inherent part of collecting because coin collectors dig shopping, upgrading, and unloading to make room and money for either new interests or continued building. Ebay is fantastic because it opens up a market and increases the chances of you getting what you want at a fair price, as well as the opportunity to unload if your interests change. So obviously most of us are going to be into posting or reading about Ebay -- it opened up a new and exciting world of possibilities for us.

I, for one, read many of the info or historical threads. I used to live on Condor's when I first started researching colonials (thanks again, Condor! -- long time no thanks, don't know if you remember our attribution chats).

cladking

<< <i>I'll start up an "educational thread" now and then, but all I get about 10 or 12 responses.

People are interested acquiring coins and making money. Many don't care about the history part. >>



I don't always respond to these threads but I always appreciate them. Thanks.