Is Derek Jeter OVER-RATED
softparade
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The brains of this forum Axtell seems to believe that Derek Jeter would be a no name that NOBODY would know had he played his career in Kansas City. A player who AVERAGES over 100 runs scored a year and nearly 200 hits per season and career .314 batting average.
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
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<< <i>The brains of this forum Axtell seems to believe that Derek Jeter would be a no name that NOBODY would know he he played his career in Kansas City. A player who AVERAGES over 100 runs scored a year and nearly 200 hits per season and career .314 batting average. >>
I can't wait for Axtell to cry about me starting a poll about another one of his delusional thoughts on the sports world
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
SD
and that is why I voted no on the poll ... plus, he is a class act.
Please explain.
OTOH, players on the Yankees who under-achieve tend to be "over-skewered" (i.e. "the Big Useless")
1. Is he one of the best defensive SS's in the AL? Yes, he is, but not as good as most people and the media make him out to be. There are at least 3 other SS's (including one playing 3B) that are better.
2. Is he one of the best offensive SS's in the AL? Yes he is, but not as much as the media makes him out to be. Perhaps earlier in his career he was the best, but not anymore. However, you watch ESPN, and they talk about Jeter as if they are talking about Joe DiMaggio or Mickey Mantle. This is the main issue for me when I state that if he was a player on KC, no one would care. His clutch hitting is simply a myth as it is for all players in all sports, and his stats are not even the best on his team. He benefits greatly from a "halo effect".
3. Is he one of the best leaders filled with intangibles that cannot be measured in numbers? Yes, he is and no argument here.
4. Does he have appeal? Absolutely. He plays in NY. He has a multi-racial background, which endears him greatly to the people of NY, and he is a class-act. As a matter of fact, he has so much appeal, it somehow seems to translate over into his ability as a player. Why? I don't know. This isn't Michael Jordan we are talking of here......who was the best of his generation.
Remember these Chuck Norris Facts
1. When Chuck Norris does a pushup, he isn't lifting himself up, he's pushing the Earth down
2. According to Einstein's theory of relativity, Chuck Norris can actually roundhouse kick you yesterday
3. There are no such things as lesbians, just women who have not yet met Chuck Norris
Yes, DEFINITELY Jeter is overrated, overhyped, AND overpaid.
Grow up already softie...if you need a poll of anonymous people to feel better about yourself you should seek professional psychiatric help IMMEDIATELY.
Does he put up the #'s that some other players put up in the regular season ? No . But how many of those type players ala Arod, step up and come thru post season time.
P.S if theres any doubt , i am a Mets fan and pretty much can't stand the Yankees
How many ball players would've had the baseball instints to make that play ?
<< <i>How about that play against Oakland to nail Giambi at the plate ?
How many ball players would've had the baseball instints to make that play ? >>
Good point, but instincts do not equal clutch. To do that once is great, to do it everytime when the game is one the line is clutch.
Of the hitting side, people keep saying how he gets hits in the postseason when they matter. However, empirical evidence shows that everyone (including Jeter) eventually reverts to the mean.
One of the biggest "clutch" shooters in NBA history was Michael Jordan. But for every streak he went on, he went into a cold streak to revert his #'s back to the mean. Of course, the media will only show the "hot" streaks, since no one wants to see the shots he missed.
Remember these Chuck Norris Facts
1. When Chuck Norris does a pushup, he isn't lifting himself up, he's pushing the Earth down
2. According to Einstein's theory of relativity, Chuck Norris can actually roundhouse kick you yesterday
3. There are no such things as lesbians, just women who have not yet met Chuck Norris
<< <i>How about that play against Oakland to nail Giambi at the plate ?
How many ball players would've had the baseball instints to make that play ? >>
As mega said, there have been 'clutch' plays in every postseason...Uribe in this year's world series had two HUGE plays to end the game that were every bit as good (if not better) than Jeter's, but because he's not in NY, it didn't get the airtime it deserved.
How many times did we have to see that play of Jeter diving into the stands? Uribe makes the same exact play, and nada.
<< <i>How many times did we have to see that play of Jeter diving into the stands? Uribe makes the same exact play, and nada. >>
Not near the same exact play. Jeter flew into the stands Uribe's was not as dramatic. Uribe also made what could of been a key ninth inning error I believe in game 3. Since it didn't end up costing the Sox he wasn't made out to be a goat.
<< <i>Good to see softie's obssession with ALL things Axtell has him starting yet another poll.
>>
Every time you spew your obnoxiously WRONG propaganda on this forum I will start a poll.
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
<< <i>The greatest thing about that Jeter dive in to the stands (about 20 feet after he caught the ball) was it allowed me to sell ridiculous high priced autograph prints of the play to all the Jeter man lovers. >>
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
was this a worthy play from a over rated and over hyped Derek Jeter?
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
But to the NY hype machine, he's the end all be all of baseball players. Even though there's a better shortstop ON HIS OWN TEAM.
If Jeter were truly the captain and a clutch player, he would have stepped to the side and let Arod (who's superior in EVERY facet of the game) play his natural position.
But Jeter is a selfish little man who couldn't put his team's needs first.
And yes, Brosius SUCKS.
1. it involved Derek Jeter
2. Giambi didn't slide
Were either of those things untrue, all people would be talking about is how a crappy throw from the OF nearly cost the Yankees the game. There's nothing inherently miraculous or athletic about the play itself and is the PERFECT example of Jeter being overrated. Seriously watch it again.
<< <i>By the way Softie, people like you only consider that play against Oakland great because:
1. it involved Derek Jeter
2. Giambi didn't slide
Were either of those things untrue, all people would be talking about is how a crappy throw from the OF nearly cost the Yankees the game. There's nothing inherently miraculous or athletic about the play itself and is the PERFECT example of Jeter being overrated. Seriously watch it again. >>
DG, you tell me how many shortstops are even in POSITION to make that play? You watch it again, terrible throw for sure, but how the hell did Jeter show up in POSITION to make that play? People like ME consider that a great play? LOL Don't go there. People like YOU consider a Trot Nixon 2002 post season home run as one of the greatest of all times ....
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
Of course, when they show it on t.v. it's more like "And the GREAT Derek Jeter comes out of NOWHERE to make an AMAZING play! What INCREDIBLE instincts from a guy who just KNOWS HOW TO PLAY THE GAME CORRECTLY!"
So feel free to reply in a similar manner. You're just proving the point.
"Yankees lose on errant throw as winning run crosses the plate"
not
"Yankees lose on errant throw as winning run crosses the plate, despite Derek Jeter's amazing play"
A great fielding play is great regardless. If the outcome of the play differs or the runner acts differently, and consequently the perception of the fielding play changes, hopefully you can understand it really wasn't all that great to begin with.
Just like him stumbling in to the stands against the Red Sox. He caught the ball about 15 feet from wall with plenty of time to stop. If anything, that stupid play suggests Yankee fans in the box seats should have signs that read "Stop Derek" ala Forrest Gump. That's all.
In the end though, the fact that we're even having this discussion is still more proof that people like you overrate and exaggerate his accomplishments.
<< <i>
In the end though, the fact that we're even having this discussion is still more proof that people like you overrate and exaggerate his accomplishments. >>
Nope, all you are doing is proving the GREAT lengths you will go to discredit ANYTHING positive about the New York Yankees. I am suprised you don't try and tell me that Jeter's lead off home run on the first pitch of game four against the Mets in the World Series was lucky it did not hit that bird that just flew by! By the way, I like to slap around both you and Axtell becuase you both think in the same inane way!
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
If it did not get dark tonite i would not have to put the lights on.
SD
<< <i>Yes, over-hyped a tad, but not overrated.
OTOH, players on the Yankees who under-achieve tend to be "over-skewered" >>
you are right about that! over-skewered
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
<< <i>If Jeter were truly the captain and a clutch player, he would have stepped to the side and let Arod (who's superior in EVERY facet of the game) play his natural position.
But Jeter is a selfish little man who couldn't put his team's needs first.
>>
Given, and I know you agree, that ARod is a superior defensive player than Jeter and has a stronger arm, and given that one of these two has to move to third - OF COURSE it's going to be ARod who moves. Whoever moves to third is going to experience a drop in effectiveness, but I believe - and don't you, too? - that the drop is far less significant if you move ARod than if you move Jeter. It was a given that ARod would adapt to the new position, but very risky to hope that Jeter would.
That decision was a no-brainer, and based entirely on what was best for the team. It would have been incredibly selfish for ARod to insist on playing short, and it would have been very un-captainlike for Jeter to volunteer to move to third since that would have hurt his team. As it is, the right decision was made, and kudos to everyone involved for not complaining about it.
So, if you want to criticize Jeter's fielding, go ahead, but to then complain that it was selfish of him not to move to a new position where he would have been even worse - sorry, I'm not buying it.
Arod, like his idol Ripken, are better suited to play third base due to their arm stregnth, super reflexes and diminished mobility due to their size. Neither Ripken or Arod ever looked bad in the field at SS...they both won Gold Gloves. But that is because they could not get anywhere near many of the fielding chances that a Jeter or Vizquel can. IMO, regards.
but it was an amazing play ... how could anyone question that it wasn't?
seriously
<< <i>
but it was an amazing play ... how could anyone question that it wasn't?
seriously >>
Seriously, would you think it was such an amazing play if Giambi had been safe?
Would ANYONE remember it? Isn't the shortstop supposed to backup the catcher on any ball hit to the outfield and a potential scoring run on base?
Thank you dgbaseball and axtell for sinking deeper into idiotville with the WHAT IF'S!
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
Softie, your blinders keep you from seeing the truth...take them off my son! Be free of the shackles keeping your eyes closed to reality! If you must, read a newspaper that originates OUTSIDE new york!
However, I believe your enjoy your self-appointed arrogance about pretending to know it all about baseball, and your pathetic arrogance that somehow because you like the yankees (well, until you start following another team), that you are somehow superior to those of us who like our team for the TEAM - and not the number of world series they've won.
And to quote Peter La Fluer, 'Just don't go cryin' to your mommy when I spank you in front of all these people.'
<< <i>
However, I believe your enjoy your self-appointed arrogance about pretending to know it all about baseball, and your pathetic arrogance that somehow because you like the yankees (well, until you start following another team), that you are somehow superior to those of us who like our team for the TEAM - and not the number of world series they've won >>
please, there is NO WAY in the world that you are a Seattle Mariner fan. You never speak of them. I still believe you are a NY Yankee fan. A twisted one, but you ARE a Yankee fan.
Also, I will ask you for the 200th time. GO back and find ANY comment of mine about the Yankees being "superior" or me refering to the number of World Series the Yankee have won. YOU CAN'T. Because this NEVER happened .Because AGAIN, you are making $HIT up to support your baseless arguements.
Ax, how much do you make being a
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
No, the pitcher is supposed to back up any play at the plate.
On that particular play the first baseman should've been the cutoof man if the ball was hit to right.
<< <i>Hey O'Axtell - give me your three top shortstops in the AL. If Jeter ain't on the list - you are a confirmed knucklehead versus a suspected knucklehead. >>
Well now are you talking shortstops defensively or shortstops overall? Not that it matters, Jeter wouldn't be on my list of either.
<< <i>O'Axtell - overall. Your position is ridiculous. You are obviously biased. I thought better of your opinion until now. See ya later.
This is the ONLY reason I argue with this sap. I am a Yankee fan who NEVER mentioned it until I stumbled across this Sports Talk forum and saw how this CLOWN was literally filling up the board with non factual, biased , anti EVERYTHING NY propaganda.
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
NO
Proof that we should all stop debating baseball with him.
SD