****miles standish****
monsterman
Posts: 797
what was miles doing in florida this week..........was he helping hurricane victims or visiting rick montgomery????........i see a continuation of the changing of the guard!!! first rick ...now miles...geez
monsterman
monsterman
my goal is to find the monsters and i go where they are but i sometimes miss some.... so if you have any and want to sell IM THE BUYER FOR THEM!!!
out of rockets ...out of bullets...switching to harsh language
out of rockets ...out of bullets...switching to harsh language
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Comments
Wondercoin
Wondercoin
I heard he was drafted by the Chicago White Sox !
Stewart
stay tuned
monsterman
out of rockets ...out of bullets...switching to harsh language
roadrunner
Well - 2/3 analogies ain't bad.
I see that the ANA site now lists Miles as an ex-PCGS grader.
Wondercoin
He is that kind of person that everyone has the pleasure to put inside of circle of friendship.
Professionally talking, Mitch already said everything about him.
He is that type of guy that is well succeeds planting rice or planning interstellar missions.
Eddy
"I wish Miles the best with whatever he decides to do after he takes the time off that he needs."
Clearly, that comment does not equate to not wanting the boards to know what he might be doing. I still wish him the best with whatever he decides to do later. And, on the flipside, of course, had Miles (or anyone else for that matter) told me something personal and/or private about their personal life, it would not end up on these message boards.
Edson - I couldn't have said it better. Miles would be great at "planting rice or planning interstellar missions". And, since his favorite place on Earth is Kauai, HI - that would be my personal guess on the future location of a "trade and grade" (well, actually just wishful thinking)!
Wondercoin
Wondercoin
Just my .02
Wondercoin
Cameron Kiefer
a little birdie...tweet tweet
monsterman
out of rockets ...out of bullets...switching to harsh language
<< <i>I hear ANACS already has designed the new slab and has even shown it to collectors and dealers interested in seeing it (I have not seen it yet). I believe the slab allows for viewing the rims of the coin and is slimer than the typical slab, allowing about (25) slabs to fit in a regular size (20) coin slab box. I look forward to seeing one live.
Wondercoin >>
That will be nice if they do it.
it , can wait for what ever official announcement, if any, is made.
People have a certain right to a degree of confidentiality, untill they are
ready to have it known.
Camelot
Wondercoin
ANACS is seen more as an alternative to NGC as opposed to PCGS.
>>>> suspect the re-emergence of ANACS will hurt NGC a lot more than PCGS at this juncture.
ANACS is seen more as an alternative to NGC as opposed to PCGS.
i dont necessarily agree....2 years ago in baltimore i saw i guy make 200,000 in a day..........what happened was anacs was under grading all their gold by a grade and sometimes 2 grades ( ms 62 and ms 63 ) ......all he did was walk the bourse and bought it all...........then subimiited to pcgs and boom the next day they were all pcgs 63 and 64 sold it all for a quick 200,000..........thus even anacs gets behind the gradeflation curve at times and when it happens the trained eye will " pick it off "
that why many graders walk the floor at the end of the day...to see what the competition is doing
all the more reason to buy the coin not the slab.....
imho ...since pcgs is not as consistent as ngc ...many times weaker minds sell pcgs coins not in the right holders to those who know better and know that in time they will get them into the correct slabs...thus many pcgs coins do trade at higher levels because they are undergraded so many more times than ngc....and in the case above with anacs the shoe was on the other foot ...which doesnt happen too often
monsterman
out of rockets ...out of bullets...switching to harsh language
>>>>If ANACS grades too conservatively relative to its competition, while buyers of ANACS coins might be thrilled, that would discourage people from submitting their coins to ANACS for grading.
exactly my point..........thus as you know and have done yourself ....graders walk the floor after the day to see and " feel" the market
exactly my point-2....which also is why i`m` not happy when services grade "all over the place"....which pcgs does a lot.....because it gives the sharper eye the advantage as they pic off other people`s boxes of all the under graded coins ( which as you know happens to dealers and collectors alike ).....not trying to blow smoke up your a$$ or blow your " stick "....but you are a master at this...which is why smarter collectors buy coins from you as they always get pq coins and great value .....why....i have never ever seen you buy a coin that would down grade......only ones that will upgrade
and to this you can not deny
monsterman
out of rockets ...out of bullets...switching to harsh language
I can second the PCGS grading. I love to see what comes in from fresh submissions to local dealers as they pretty much go by what PCGS graded it. Since they miss at least 20-30% on average, it leaves a lot of fruit. I do not see NGC grade tight by 1 point or more anywhere near as often. I have only had one submission where they did that to me across the board.....botched the entire batch....but that's out of hundreds of submissions.
roadrunner
I wonder if ANR will begin auctioning ANACS coins ?
Gregg - Do you think it is possible that NGC overgrades coins ?
Stewart
i said>>>2 years ago in baltimore i saw i guy make 200,000 in a day
you said >>>in recently graded ANACS gold at any show
if you got 2 years in the pen they call that short time as cons could do that standing on their heads...but to those of us on the outside....2 years is not recently
stew
>>>>Gregg - Do you think it is possible that NGC overgrades coins ?
lol....mmmm...well its possible that harvard could beat usc in football so i guess its possible
do you think its possible ngc properly grades coins and pcgs undergrades them...personally i truely feel that is exactly what happens.....its all about the money....none of these services want to properly grade these coins( but ngc is by far more consistent)......if they did they would create too much wealth too fast without them sharing....i got a bust dollar.....a no brainer ms 66 but its still in a 65 holder......they wont give me a 66 and make me 175,000 worth of value for a 100 dollar fee....that would be crazy for them to do...its been in 40 times and 4,000 is still not enough for the wealth they will create....but in time ( the corner stone for a collector ) it will evolve to a double no brainer or even a triple no brainer...sooner or later it will get there...and logic will tell you its later...but i have time so i`ll wait
back to my case in point....and lets not get into the off the wall 3rd tier services who are ( and the clowns that sell them ) only praying on newbies, old widows and dummies....lets not even discuss ...ncc...fbi...ucsi..cya...or any of the off the walls services...other than to say its disgusting for anyone to say in their ebay adds " this coin sheets at 5,000 in ms 67" when according to standard grading its a 62...nuff said
lets stick to
a) ngc
b) pcgs
c) anacs
d) icg
1) the reality is ....that a coin has a defined grade numerical grade... that being said for my examples...there are no 1/2 points...no 1/4 points...just whole numbers....also lets just keep to ms coins...further more let keep to 65...66...67..68...69......
2) are all icg coins over graded by a point or more???thus a icg 66 is really a pcgs 65 or less....i think not...are all ngc coins graded a point higher too........i think not..in fact as i said before ngc is the most accurate and consistent of all the grading services
3) in theory ( in their business plans ) each service has to define exactly where they want to be grading wise .... in order to maximize their profits...in that plan... they do indeed plan on being 1/2 below such and such service...or 1/4 above such and such service.........but the fact is... there are no 1/4 or 1/2 points on the slabs ...... so if you follow my logic here...if a service planed on being 1/2 below the other than the math is 50% of their coins are indeed graded properly and 50 % were over graded by a point....and if their plan called for 1/4 below the other than 3 are graded properly and the 4th one is over graded...thats 3 of 4 coins are properly ...if their plan called for 1/5 point it would be 4 of 5 are graded properly
the fact is i have ( as well as many others ) found several upgrades in ngc,anacs and icg holders that are now in pcgs holders...its always nice to buy an icg 66 and slab it in a pcgs 68 holder and hit a homerun..the fact is thats ( pcgs ) where the " all the money " is...........and why is that..........
mmmmmmmm
how about
1) they are the oldest
2) they have the most market makers
3) they do the most maketing
4) aura of market dominence
as per number 2 above....its nice to be a market maker when so many coins are undergraded and by being a marketmaker where dealers and collectors alike bring their boxes to them to be cherry picked...........why in the world would i want to be a market maker for ngc ...when al their coins are properly graded...just keep bringing me those boxes of pcgs coins ....and i`ll pick it clean............yep its wonderfull to be a pcgs marketmaker!!!!!
does anyone ever notice that the top crack out guys in the biz have more ngc coins than pcgs coins....wonder why that is????
many of the top crack out guys were ex graders themselves....they know just as much or more than the guys now grading at the services do...and most importanly they put their money where their mouth is.....so when they buy a coin and try it and try it and try it at the money place ( pcgs....because thats where the perception of the most value is and said perception has turned into reality ) ...they go across the street to ngc to get the right grade on it and then sell it for less money than they would of liked but made a very nice profit.....
thus it can be theorized that most all coins were once in ngc holders where they were awarded the right grade.....yep all in ngc holders
then enter gradeflation...and in a few years they gravitate back to pcgs holders and sold for more money
then enter another round of gradeflation and they go up a grade at ngc where they recieved the right grade again ( for that particular point in time of the gradeflation cycle )
then in a few years they go back to pcgs for the same grade they got at ngc and are sold again for bigger bucks
then the process starts all over again...and again....
but now....there is a limit...and its called ms 70....mmmmmmmm it seems the services 100 million dollar golden goose is cooked...mmmm better get those wall street types a thinkin.....
mmmm...i got it....lets float a 100 point system by the collectors....naw they are never going to go for that....no they wont...not now..but lets float it by them just so they get used to hearing it.........cause in a few years we are going to shove it down their throats and we want them to of heard of it before
well i meandered a little there but i hope its good reading
back to the topic
back some 15 years ago ngc defended their grading as saying " we market grade"...by that they meant ...here is a ms 65 morgan dollar and it is white...its a 65....here is a morgan dollar with beautifull color...it has the marks of a 65 but the look of a 68....its worth 3 times the white one so we will call it a 66............and that right there is where all this pcgs and ngc stuff started
problem is....ngc tried to alert the collector and level the playing field by saying the coin was worth much more than its white brother....and it was....i still have the white ms 65 pcgs coin i paid 100 for and today its still worth 100....the ngc 66 that i paid 300 for ( really a techincal 65 back then ) i sold last year for 10,000....so someone pleae tell me...whats the answer
simple.........buy the coin not the slab.....and the look it everything
one more ditty
in 1987 neither pcgs or ngc thought commems should be graded above 66..........now that was foolish wasnt it....so when you see one of those oldies and its a monster like that ngc 66 cleveland that sold for 20 times bid ( 600 bid ...sold for 12,000 ) which now resides in a pcgs 68 holder ...which btw just sold for 50,000....when you see one....call me...i`ll buy it
ok ok one more ditty
are there any series out there where the " concrete ceiling " hasnt been broken yet at pcgs ( where the big money is at )....try looking at ngc...........they are all over there across the street........and if you believe like i do ...that the services are ranking coins.....and if people want the best they can afford ...as i said they are all across the street............nothing like owning all seven ngc coins in 67 and the pcgs pop is zero.....cause when you do that you bought great value...and when you get the notion to walk them back across the street to pcg and make 3 of them in a year....sell the 3rd best first....then the second best....and you still have the best of the best and all seven of them will be paid for from your sale of the 2 coins
which is why i love ngc........and without pcgs i couldnt make squat...so i love them too!!!....and icg....i love you too because your coins go begging.......and many times they shouldnt....
.......its fun ...evryone one should try it...
all you gota do is know the game and it`s rules
monsterman
out of rockets ...out of bullets...switching to harsh language
if you believe this
>>>>3) in theory ( in their business plans ) each service has to define exactly where they want to be grading wise .... in order to maximize their profits...in that plan... they do indeed plan on being 1/2 below such and such service...or 1/4 above such and such service.........but the fact is... there are no 1/4 or 1/2 points on the slabs ...... so if you follow my logic here...if a service planed on being 1/2 below the other than the math is 50% of their coins are indeed graded properly and 50 % were over graded by a point....and if their plan called for 1/4 below the other than 3 are graded properly and the 4th one is over graded...thats 3 of 4 coins are properly ...if their plan called for 1/5 point it would be 4 of 5 are graded properly
then
doesnt it stand to logic that if you want the best set possible you have to have a mix of both ngc and pcgs coins.....
and if that logic holds up
then if there is a registry where as only pcgs coins are allowed in it.... therefore you cant possibly have the best set possible
only at ngc where as both pcgs and ngc are allowed in can that happen
monsterman
out of rockets ...out of bullets...switching to harsh language
Greegg - Have you ever tried selling NGC graded top pop Lincoln cents ???????
nuff said
Stewart
>>>Greegg - Have you ever tried selling NGC graded top pop Lincoln cents ???????
nuff said
no i can say i havent....and there is a reason for that....but i can tell you in the past more than 3/4 of them were in ngc holders one time or another...and the best went into pcgs holders where the big money is........seems to me id rather buy it cheaper in and ngc holder and make the pcgs holder.......which im sure you have done
and over the past 5 years or so ngc has closed the gap and monster colored coins where i play dont even trade on the sheets anyway
but i hear ya....morgans used to be the same way....nothing like buying my 92-s morgan in a ngc 67 holder at 65,000 and crossing it ( THE FIRST TIME ) to a pcgs holder and selling it a 140,000....and the guy who paid me 75,000 for my trouble could of bought it in an ngc holder ...but wasnt quite as good with his eye
or
nothing like buying an ngc 83-cc morgan in 68 for 15,000 and selling it in a pcgs holder for 45,000 either
god i love this game
out of rockets ...out of bullets...switching to harsh language
Irish Mike - I have cracked out many NGC coins and sent them to PCGS.In the late eighties NGC graded Lincoln cents were much more consistently graded than PCGS coins
Gregg - Let me enlighten you.By 1990 the NGC holders (primarily from the plastic) encasing copper coins started deteriorating in the holders.NGC had no copper guarantee.PCGS had the guarantee.PCGS was buying back their mistakes.PCGS had a better holder.NOONE would send coins to NGC.NGC copper would not sell.
I remember going to see Michael Ruben in Silver Springs Maryland and looking at 10,000 NGC graded copper slabs.I would only buy less than 20 coins
In the last 10 years PCGS has a better than 90+% of the copper market.If you want to sell copper it must be in a PCGS holder.
Stewart
i have no doubt that ngc has had problems with leaking in the past and in fact im sure of it...but i am also sure that they made a blank check out to fix it too ....thus now its not an issue
also i am sure you know of the east coast phenom where as something in the air ( polutants ) was killing copper ....of which is also well known
also
>>>>In the last 10 years PCGS has a better than 90+% of the copper market.If you want to sell copper it must be in a PCGS holder.
you got that right....abosutely....you might be surprised to know that while i dont buy much copper ( very unstable ) unless they have great color............the very first coin purchased in this century was a copper coin....and i was the buyer...it was a monster and also in an ngc holder........paid 4,000 for the little buggar and didnt have any takers at 5,000..........then i crossed it and was beating them off at 16,000....so believe me i know....my only issue was the buyer could of bought it himself and saved 12,000......but he has this pcgs thing and you know what they say............if you only buy pcgs its gonna cost ya big time....
funny thing....the guy who bought davids commem set ( WHICH IS WAY TOO COOL AND AS MONSTER AS THEY COME ...AND IN FACT IS ON THE SAME SCALE AS MINE )...anyway he was on second base...the first baseman was a guy from san diego....and he just couldnt get past the ngc coins in the set...........who stupid is that...he could of in one swoop faulted right into to the solid monster catagory............now he is out and can never compete ...to put together a monster monster set your l;ucky if you can add 2 or 3 coins a year....he just cost himself 30 years and any chance of getting to valhalla...........except if i sold to him...but i have ngc coins so
i guess he will wake up one day and say............what a dumba$$
he was
and you know what they say about a closed single slab registry
" if dumba$$es could fly...it would be an airport"
except copper of course!!!!!!!!!!!
monsterman
out of rockets ...out of bullets...switching to harsh language
Wondercoin
Actually, it seemed to be mostly about a giant sucking sound - where's Ross Perot when you need him?
Gregg, as usual, great posts!
Seth
Charles can spend an awful lot of money with no concern for profit. Other than that - there's nothing that one man can do.