Why did this PF64 1861 50c realize $18,400 at B&M?

roadrunner

I can make some guesses as to why this very pretty, PF64 cameo realized 10X CDN bid? It would have to upgrade to a 65/66DCAM be worth that. Technical surfaces look to be 65 at best
based on some reverse field marks. This date is tough in CAM as highest graded is this 64. Still seems pretty stiff though. Other guesses?

Beautifully toned 1861 half

roadrunner

Coinosaurus

It does look marky. I can only guess that the coin is so awesome in person that you overlook that. Such coins maybe can't be graded with numbers, you can only describe them and then let the bidding go as it will.

roadrunner

I don't think I've seen a seated type coin ever bring 10X or even 4X it's grade (assuming this one ends up 65CAM) just for "eye appeal."
100% premiums are usually as ridiculous as it gets for seated coinage. These aren't Morgan dollars.

Here's a NGC62 no drapery 1839 half that realized a hefty $21,800 at the sale compared to a $3200 blue sheet value! Very very sharply struck piece with much luster. It would appear that an upgrade was banked on. This one looks really unc unlike most no drapery halves graded as mint state.

1839 no drapery half NGC MS62

roadrunner

BillJones

The 1839 No Drapery half dollar has been known to be a major rarity in strict Mint State for a long time. Still $20 grand + seems high even for that coin. A lot of these prices leave me scratching my head these days, but so far as that 1861 PR-64 half dollar goes, I'll sum up my opinion in a few words: It's too much money. The coin has got WAY too many chippy marks rate that price.

RYK

To paraphrase another numismatist (NOT QDB):

"You cannot overpay for a beautifully toned coin."

roadrunner

The 1839 no drapery half (as well as the Arrows and Rays var.) have benefited quite well from type coin collecting that began in earnest in the later 1970's. The date itself is not all that rare in UNC. In fact the 1839 with drapery (much less expensive) is as rare in very choice to gem unc. When I was looking for underrated dates in unc in the 1970's and early 1980's I avoided the 1839 ND because it was too common for the price it fetched. I much preferred more esoteric dates like 49, 50, 51, and a host of others.

The 1839 is a "scarce" one year type but as a date compares favorably to some other Philly and New Orleans mints of the 1839-1852 era. In fact many of the other P mints are as rare in gem but don't carry the prestige (1841, 1845, 1849 for example).

It is true though that finding a "mint state" no drapery half without obvious rub and full luster is a chore. In fact the highest graded coin, the NGC 67 Knoxville coin, has a massive leg rub imo. I do not think it is all strike related either. I felt it was a MS64 per market standards. It continues to lie in state (2-1/2 yrs so far)
in a major dealer's inventory. If the coin could legitimately pass as a MS66 or 67 it would have sold long ago.

roadrunner

tjkillian

That 1839 ND half looks great, the picture must be hiding more than it seems. The luster really sparkles on it. Still, $21k for it is a bit pricey.

Tom

BillJones

Results like this explode the myth that all auctions result in good deals. If two more uninformed bidders go against each other, well above market prices can result.

roadrunner

It' s plausible that 2 proof set collectors each wanted this for their top end Cam/Dcam set. This coin might have been the only one available for some time. Either that, or 2 crack addicts went head to head to show who had the biggest cahunas.

roadrunner

michael

coin is cameo undergraded and part of an original proof set that wAS broken up long ago and being re assembiled

coinlieutenant

I agree with Bill...anomalies can result at auction.

Outhaul

Remember the advice many of us dispense to the newbies when asked about the sheet prices:

"A coin is worth what someone will pay for it"

Cheers,

Bob

roadrunner

I see no problem with that coin as a 65 or worth 65 money. Since most crack out artist's coins probably work out far less than 50% of the time, there's a good chance this won't go 67 or even 66. Some of those "monsters" at Stacks Buffalo Sale never got close to the grade they were assumed to be. The buyers got buried in them. Happens more often that way than the upgrade way.

True, haven't seen this coin, but the reverse surfaces along indicate it shouldn't make 67. Some of the stuff getting into high holders
is surprising though. And the standard keeps getting pushed a tad lower.......constant gradeflation. Hard to see the logic though in an auction house letting a coin stay in a holder that's 2 points off. As a rule, that doesn't support the highest possible price since it tends to pre-condition many buyers (not crackers though) to think it's not as nice as it is. Of course that assumes said coin is 2 pts off to begin with, which it may not be.

roadrunner

291fifth

At least two bidders had auction fever, however, only one of them will eventually suffer because of it. The marks should prevent it from ever being upgraded.