U.S. Going to Track All Bullion Sales?

Coinosaurus

A prominent CW advertiser just called and said that starting in 2006 the U.S. government was going to start tracking all bullion sales and require reporting for all dealers. As in, "so you better buy now......"

Any truth to this or just someone trying to pump up business?

FatMan

Let Freedom Ring!

I hope it is not true, but it wouldn't surprise me.

Freak1c

I personally have been hearing this for years. But that doesn't mean it won't happen.

Freak

Craton

My uncle has 30K to buy some gold coin with and this is one of the reasons we plan to do it in Canada.

segoja

No way they would do that!

That would be onerous (sp?) paperwork. Imagine how many gold coins are sold in a day!

streeter

Patriot Act
section 352 compliance gold

segoja

Please post the detail.

This will kill the gold trade...or we will have a bunch of law breaking coin collectors out there.

topstuf

"I see, Mr. Bftzxlkpmny, you wish to purchase some gold with cash. I will have to report your name. Do you have any ID? No, Mr. Bftzxlkpmny, I need a license with the ink already dry."

Krugerrands were ILLEGAL prior to 1975. You had to ASK for them to buy them.

streeter

I do not know the details. I have been trying for the last month to digest the Patriot Act and I guess I'm not enough of a patriot because it is tough for me to comprehend the details.

I had been lead to believe that if the bullion content is a certain percentage of the final price--then the coin qualifies as bullion. Obviously a 65saint is not bullion but a 61saint might qualify.

I am searching for details.

wayneherndon

ICTA Link

Click on the Word or PDF link under the section titled "ICTA Compliance Seminar September 21 in Long Beach" for some additional information.

WH

mrearlygold

I haven't heard anything about it but this kind of crap wouldn't surprise me in the least.


Tom

michael

starts in 2006 for large bullion transactions will be treated as cash when the bullion face value on the coin is over 10k just like cash so if you buy gold one ounce eagles they are listed i think at 50 dollars each well if you buy 200 of them that is 50 face value in usa dollars times 200 equals 10000 cash so it is reported as a cash transaction even if you paid by check as the dealer is technically giving you 10000 in cash

man you guys are clueless and thick on these boards

dlimb2

10K in gold or silver sold or bought at one time has been reportable and the norm for years...this is nothing new!

Nocerino18

Politicians have nothing better to do in the US then to make stupid stupid laws. Why do you think we have one of the highest percentage of our populations in the department of corrections system compared to all civilized nations. I think we are about double the percentage of all of Europe.

dlimb2

Now what the news means to me...is that Our Government is expecting PM to rise...but the law has been a law for many years already....if it has been followed and recorded in the past who knows.

oreville

Indeed USA Patriot Section 352 goes into affect in 2006 which covers ALL coin transactions totalling $10,000 or more where bullion is valued at 50% or more of the coins sold/purchased on the date of the transaction.

Example, if you sell or buy 12 MS-64 Saints $20's at $900 each which totals $10,800 the dealer MUST report this transaction since the bullion valuation of $460 plus per coin is more than 50% of the value of the transaction.

In effect, all sales/purchases of 90% silver coins will be subject to reporting if the total transaction amount exceeds $10,000.

In my opinion, even transactions UNDER $10,000 WILL ALSO BE SUBJECT TO REPORTING EVEN IT INVOLVES A SERIES OF TRANSACTIONS EXCEEDING $3,000 SO THAT THERE IS AN APPEARANCE OF SUCH SERIES OF TRANSACTIONS "STRUCTURED" (the government has designated this word as a dirty word which is almost as evil as "scheme") TO AVOID THE $10,000 REPORTING REQUIREMENT.

Example:

The same collector buys or sells or consigns 4 MS-64 Saints at $900 each on January 15th, 4 more February 10th and finally 5 more in June. The dealer or auction house will, in my opinion have to report the $10,000 which evolved over a 6 month period! Cute???????????????????????????????????????????????????

If the dealer or auction house, fails to report such transactions, they could be subject to penalties and fines!!

oreville

Dealers will not be able to circumvent these rules by trying to "raise" the price of these MS-64 Saints even for PQ MS-64 Saints to a specific customer unless he can be prepared to PROVE that his higher selling price of his MS-64 Saints were his normal prices for PQ quality coins!!

You realize the paperwork the dealer must engage in to keep track of all this? He or she has to have written documentation of daily bullion values, selling (or purchase price).

Now the interesting question is will ebay be responsible to keep track of their auctions?

My opinion? Paypal will have to be involved in reporting requirements.

skerke

What are they worried Al-Qaida is going to try and build a gold bomb -or corner the market or ...what could possly be the rationale?

mrearlygold

<< <i>What are they worried Al-Qaida is going to try and build a gold bomb -or corner the market or ...what could possly be the rationale? >>















They aren't worried about anything. They will just rip us off and not get so much as an objection.

Why? Because they can.

oreville

Government needs to justify its existence. Government is made up of many employees who want to keep their jobs like everyone else and then promote more and more controls to protect the citizenry from harm. This also protects the government employee from losing his or her job in the name of governing the people.

This creates a conflict in that government slowly seeks more and more control over the citizenry who do not always want to be controlled.

Yet we all complain when the "government" didn't "control" the aftermath of Katrina and expect it to control yet even more!

PerryHall

Any law like this will be widely and rightly ignored. Remember Prohabition?

oreville

Perry Hall: Things are getting so complex, even CPA's are having trouble keeping up with all of the new regulations.

Conder101

The official line is that terrorists are using the gold market to launder money for their organizations.

ttown

If this law goes into effect it will be bad for dealers but trading will continue through collector to collector transactions. This will be just like the Anti-Gun law where folks believe that criminals go through respected gun dealers to get there guns. We all know they are either stolen or purchased out of the "Want Ads" in the paper from individuals that are exempt for these laws in many states.