"There are virtually no fakes of this series"

GoldCoinLover

"After all the emails, we are well aware of which
coin you want.

There is no reason to get the coin authenticated.
Basically, there are virtually no fakes of this type."

Isn't every gold coin been faked at some point?

sumnom

Just buy the damned thing.

1jester

<< <i>Just buy the damned thing. >>



Just do it. Have some guts. Have some trust in the good advice you're getting from so many people.

Philip

Don't buy it, it's a fake and you will be screwed up. Also, leave the seller alone.

Leave this forum, too!

Danegeld

If all folks were as cautious as you several coin dealers would be out of business I think the coin is a good buy at $98. If you keep an eye on the gold market you may not get a better chance. Just my 2 bits...

Good Luck
Ben

coinpictures

<< <i>"After all the emails, we are well aware of which
coin you want.

There is no reason to get the coin authenticated.
Basically, there are virtually no fakes of this type."

Isn't every gold coin been faked at some point?

>>



Dude, you clearly have no clue how this all works. I suggest you forget about buying coins online or mail order and deal strictly with local dealers. That way you can see, fondle, stroke, and lick the actual coin before you buy it, and then you can pester that dealer with all the inane questions... until he boots you out the door. You're talking about wanting authentication and pictures and handholding on coins where the dealer has a $5-10 margin if that. It's not worth their time.

You are obviously too skittish to be buying sight-unseen.

Enough already.

satootoko

If you think one of the most respected gold coin dealers on the planet is trying to screw you over on an under $100 transaction, what in the world makes you think you can trust any of us?

Oh, that's right - you don't.

Danegeld

My advice would be to find one dealer (the stuff your buying isn't all that unique) and stick with that person. The price may not always be the best or the worst, but the Piece-Of-Mind of knowing who your dealing with is worth every penny...

Good Luck
Ben

GoldCoinLover

<< <i>My advice would be to find one dealer (the stuff your buying isn't all that unique) and stick with that person. The price may not always be the best or the worst, but the Piece-Of-Mind of knowing who your dealing with is worth every penny...

Good Luck
Ben >>



Thanks for the 2 helpful people out of 8 who helped. Still didn't answer my question though. Oh well. No I'm not leaving, I have more guts than that.

coinpictures

Kid, you're like a bad rash. Go deface a sovereign or something...

1jester

"Isn't every gold coin been faked at some point?" --GCL

First of all, your question is grammatically incorrect. You could ask either: "Isn't every gold coin faked at some point?" or "Hasn't every gold coin been faked at some point?" So please let us know what you're asking before you accuse us of being unhelpful.

Assuming you're asking "Isn't every gold coin faked at some point?":

In answer to your question: the answer can't be ascertained with any degree of certainty, especially since it includes time in the future and nobody but God can tell the future.

Assuming you're asking "Hasn't every gold coin been faked at some point?":

That's impossible to ascertain too.

I hope that's a helpful answer to your question.

SYRACUSIAN

It is not faked because there is practically no added collectable value to this and many other similar coins, other than their intrinsic value. So it's not worth the effort, you understand? If you fake it, you have two choices: fake it like the original one, exact weight, gold content, diameter etc, which can prove very lucrative for a RARE gold coin, worth many times its gold value, or then fake it by using less gold, but this is easily detectable by measuring the weight and/or the diameter, one of the two will be affected.

Trust these good people's advice and go ahead. It's a great deal if you ask me and from a very reputable seller. You will want to deal with him again.

0john0

<< <i>Isn't every gold coin been faked at some point? >>



Never say "every." Nobody could prove "every." "Many" is a better word choice. What is the point in faking a coin that is only bought for the gold value? If it was a gold coin that weighed 0.1 ounce but was selling for $4000, you can bet people would be making fakes. But the time an effort it takes to fake a coin that would just sell for the price of spot gold is rediculous and would likely never happen. Think about the logic of it. Then wait. Think about it some more.

I have several Angels in my collection and I have never cared if it is a fake or not, because in this case (and forgive me darksiders) I am not buying the coin, but I am buying the gold. If it a real Angel made of gold or a fake angel made of gold, who cares. It is an investment. Potentially a poor investment, but that is another topic.

GoldCoinLover

<< <i>

<< <i>Isn't every gold coin been faked at some point? >>



Never say "every." Nobody could prove "every." "Many" is a better word choice. What is the point in faking a coin that is only bought for the gold value? If it was a gold coin that weighed 0.1 ounce but was selling for $4000, you can bet people would be making fakes. But the time an effort it takes to fake a coin that would just sell for the price of spot gold is rediculous and would likely never happen. Think about the logic of it. Then wait. Think about it some more.

I have several Angels in my collection and I have never cared if it is a fake or not, because in this case (and forgive me darksiders) I am not buying the coin, but I am buying the gold. If it a real Angel made of gold or a fake angel made of gold, who cares. It is an investment. Potentially a poor investment, but that is another topic. >>



a poor investment because it does not have much nusmimatic value and just its instrinsic value?

Conder101

<< <i>a poor investment because it does not have much nusmimatic value and just its instrinsic value? >>


Correct. A coin that strictly has just its bullion value is at the mercy of the spot metal market. A coin with a numismatic value in demand by collectors is not so dependant and can go up in value even when the metal markets are going down. Over time as the number of collectors increase (or their incomes rise) the value of the numismatic coins wil rise even if the bullion market doesn't.

kieferscoins

<< <i>Kid, you're like a bad rash. Go deface a sovereign or something... >>





Cameron Kiefer

Sylvestius

GCL


Don't take this as critiscism but rather more as advice that would be well heeded. Now i might sometimes sound a little on the blunt side but it's just my way and thus i will warn you and apologise in advance for this, because you're not going to like what i've got to say. But seriously i think you need to backtrack a wee little bit.

I don't know how long you have been collecting coins, but i think you have failed to grasp one of the most crucial steps in breaking into the world of numismatics and that is "knowledge is power". Enthusiasm which you seem to have is a good thing and we encourage this, but enthusiasm and cash in itself is not enough.

Now you're asking questions here, that's good because it shows you are making the right steps, but if you're going to be dealing with gold coins which are generally expensive you have to realise that just asking on these boards falls a long way short of being useful to your future collection.

Basically there are two ways of doing something, the easy and most ineffcient and lazy way (i.e relying on us for all your knowledge) and the harder and challenging but much more useful (and fulfilling) method of learning it yourself.

Basically what i'm saying is save up some money and buy some coin books, and read, read, read. The more you know the more you will learn to rely upon your own judgements, the more you will learn what to avoid and what to grab as a bargin. Each and every one of us has had to master this for ourselves, sure it's not easy, but what in life is? If you want something you've got to work for it... simple as.

We can, and have recommended books that you should invest in, knowledge is an investment worth while, gold on the other hand is not, gold is merely a hedger against inflation, if you're thinking buying gold coins is going to make you money, well generally you're going to be disappointed.

Anyhow it's up to you whether you heed this advice or not, but if you don't acquire some knowledge then one day some shady dealer is gonna see you coming and you'll get screwed on a deal.

Some might think that a bit harsh, but sometimes an unpleasant truth now will save you alot of grief later on. And with gold coins, it's alot to lose.

Sylvestius

Further advice whilst i think on.

Now i used to collect British sovereigns, so i have actively collected gold in the past. Here's the advice i'd give, although many may not agree with me;


Buy coins that US collector's term as classic. Basically in US terms pre-1933 gold that was struck as circulation coinage, and in world terms the same applies but the date may differ. In British coinage it's 1932 and before. The reason why buying this is more benefitial is as explained above in another post. These coins have collector value because they are collectable coins in their own right, pieces of history that circulated. Whereas modern bullion is struck to be sold for it's gold content alone, sure some people do collect them by date, but the market for these is much smaller and as such should the gold price say drop unexpectedly then so will the value of those bullion issues. Classic regular issue coinage though however will retain it's value much better because they'll always be a collector market of some sort for it, based beyond the mere intrinsic value of the coins themselves.

Another piece of advice i'd give is; look around on the internet at the coinage type/s you are interested in, and keep looking. Familarise yourself with how they look, their weight, their size etc.

If you can get to a dealer's shop or to a coin fair then go around and look at every specimen you can get your hands on, you don't have to have any money and you don't have to buy any. The most important thing is you familiarise yourself with the aspects of the coin. How it feels, how it looks, it's weight, it's size, the colour, the relief, what are the edges like? Learn the overall look of the coin (the overall look is the most important as this is what lets you suss out fakes, if you get to magnifying you get to the point where you can't see the wood for the trees, so don't use a magnifying glass to focus in on small areas). Most importantly though is handling as many as you can, this is how you become familiar with a series.

I realise this might not always be practicable, but you'll find with each new series you meet based on past experience with other serieses you begin to learn how to apply the knowledge you learned about one onto the other. Does this sound strange? Well if you're handling lots of gold coins, be them sovereigns, roosters etc. You soon learn the colour range that real coins fall into, the weight range, how the metal strikes up and the given acceptable ranges of strike. Fakes are often too weakly struck. When you ask some of us on here if something's fake or not (and lets say it is) we can sometimes spot it a mile off but yet we can't explain in words exactly what it is that makes it so noticable. Descriptions as "weak strike", "off colour", "inproperly placed legends" might surface. The only reason why we know this though is because we've seen enough of the real ones to know what it should look like.


My advice to you is do some fieldwork.

STLNATS

My advice to you is do some fieldwork.

Great advice indeed.

Some of us have the advantage of having started to collect when we were kids. Being without any money to speak of, I read about coins a lot and bought very little. That was fine because each purchase was focussed, gave me an opportunity to learn more and enjoy the experience. Fortunately, as my capacity to buy increased, I found that I had a fair amount of knowledge and experience that I could leverage and that many of my competiting collectors did not have.

I suspect its tough to do the other way around (start collecting when you can buy more valuable items), but having the discipline to get a minimum level of knowledge about what interests you does pay great dividends.

GoldCoinLover

<< <i>Further advice whilst i think on.

Now i used to collect British sovereigns, so i have actively collected gold in the past. Here's the advice i'd give, although many may not agree with me;


Buy coins that US collector's term as classic. Basically in US terms pre-1933 gold that was struck as circulation coinage, and in world terms the same applies but the date may differ. In British coinage it's 1932 and before. The reason why buying this is more benefitial is as explained above in another post. These coins have collector value because they are collectable coins in their own right, pieces of history that circulated. Whereas modern bullion is struck to be sold for it's gold content alone, sure some people do collect them by date, but the market for these is much smaller and as such should the gold price say drop unexpectedly then so will the value of those bullion issues. Classic regular issue coinage though however will retain it's value much better because they'll always be a collector market of some sort for it, based beyond the mere intrinsic value of the coins themselves.

Another piece of advice i'd give is; look around on the internet at the coinage type/s you are interested in, and keep looking. Familarise yourself with how they look, their weight, their size etc.

If you can get to a dealer's shop or to a coin fair then go around and look at every specimen you can get your hands on, you don't have to have any money and you don't have to buy any. The most important thing is you familiarise yourself with the aspects of the coin. How it feels, how it looks, it's weight, it's size, the colour, the relief, what are the edges like? Learn the overall look of the coin (the overall look is the most important as this is what lets you suss out fakes, if you get to magnifying you get to the point where you can't see the wood for the trees, so don't use a magnifying glass to focus in on small areas). Most importantly though is handling as many as you can, this is how you become familiar with a series.

I realise this might not always be practicable, but you'll find with each new series you meet based on past experience with other serieses you begin to learn how to apply the knowledge you learned about one onto the other. Does this sound strange? Well if you're handling lots of gold coins, be them sovereigns, roosters etc. You soon learn the colour range that real coins fall into, the weight range, how the metal strikes up and the given acceptable ranges of strike. Fakes are often too weakly struck. When you ask some of us on here if something's fake or not (and lets say it is) we can sometimes spot it a mile off but yet we can't explain in words exactly what it is that makes it so noticable. Descriptions as "weak strike", "off colour", "inproperly placed legends" might surface. The only reason why we know this though is because we've seen enough of the real ones to know what it should look like.


My advice to you is do some fieldwork. >>



Great advice, thanks. I don't think you're meaning mean at all. I will get some more books . PS I already have a gold soveriegn book , is this a good start? It lists the value in pounds

1jester

And read this thread from beginning to end. Call it your first lesson. Then get back with us.

ccrdragon

GCL - you got passion, I'll give you that, and passion is a necessity in this hobby!

I'll also give you the following words of advice:

Using value as a measure of your collection is a very slippery slope to try and walk. The 'value' of a coin is not a fixed amount and can vary from day to day and from market condition to market condition. The only fixed value to a coin is the intrinsic value of the metal that the coin was minted in - gold, silver, platinum, copper, etc - and even that varies a great deal over time because the metals are traded as comodities and the values of the commodities fluctuate greatly! Many other factors such as condition, strike, number minted, toning, etc greatly affect the perceived value of the coin depending on market conditions. Supply and demand also play a major factor in the 'value' of coins - there could be only 10 coins minted of a particular type, but if there is no demand for that particular coin, it will not have a high value. Conversely, there could be millions of a particular coin minted and if the demand is great enough (witness the 1909s VDB penny) the value of the coin will be high.

Don't get hung-up on the value of the coins in your collection! I say this because (at least in my way of thinking), true collectors buy the coins that they have because they like the coin itself or the history surrounding the coin or because the coin has a significant meaning to them or for any of a number of other reasons that have nothing to do with the 'value' of the coin.

A great collection may contain 100's of coins and still have a value that is very small. It can have a small number of coins that have a great value. Or it could fall somewhere in-between. The point being, the value of the coins does not make it a great collection. The quality of the coins, the completeness of the set (if indeed it is a set), the eye-appeal of each of the coins, whether or not the coins in a set are matched in terms of toning, color and wear, etc.

All of these things factor into the 'value' of a set and all of them are far more important to the 'value' of the set than the 'value' of any of the individual coins in the set.

In my mind, I use value as a relative indicator on what I should pay for a coin (unless I really want the coin and then price is no object) and for very little other than that. To me, anyone who is really hung-up on the value of thier coins is an investor and is not a collector.

And as a side note, a question for you - when you list your coins in your sig-line, is the value that you list what you paid for the coins or is it actually the market value for the coins? If it is what you paid for the coins, then the amount you list as a value is wrong and actually has nothing to do with the value of your collection. I know that I have coins in my collection where I have paid more than 'market value' for (and I am sure there are others on the boards who have done likewise) because I liked the coin and wanted to have it in my set. So it may be that I have spent more on the coins in my collection than I could get for the coins were I to try and sell them and I really don't care if that is the case - the coins are in my collection because I want them in my collection, not because they have great value.

Sylvestius

<< <i>I know that I have coins in my collection where I have paid more than 'market value' for (and I am sure there are others on the boards who have done likewise) because I liked the coin and wanted to have it in my set. >>




OH yes! This familiar, i have coins i paid well over book value for. Do i regret it? No... i wanted the coin.

Also note that the price stated in the book are generally market prices (i.e dealer's selling prices), when you come to sell them you'll get less for them more often than not. Unless you hit it lucky.

A dealer once told me something and from my own personal experience i know this to be true, the profit is made when buying a coin.

GoldCoinLover

<< <i>GCL - you got passion, I'll give you that, and passion is a necessity in this hobby!

I'll also give you the following words of advice:

Using value as a measure of your collection is a very slippery slope to try and walk. The 'value' of a coin is not a fixed amount and can vary from day to day and from market condition to market condition. The only fixed value to a coin is the intrinsic value of the metal that the coin was minted in - gold, silver, platinum, copper, etc - and even that varies a great deal over time because the metals are traded as comodities and the values of the commodities fluctuate greatly! Many other factors such as condition, strike, number minted, toning, etc greatly affect the perceived value of the coin depending on market conditions. Supply and demand also play a major factor in the 'value' of coins - there could be only 10 coins minted of a particular type, but if there is no demand for that particular coin, it will not have a high value. Conversely, there could be millions of a particular coin minted and if the demand is great enough (witness the 1909s VDB penny) the value of the coin will be high.

Don't get hung-up on the value of the coins in your collection! I say this because (at least in my way of thinking), true collectors buy the coins that they have because they like the coin itself or the history surrounding the coin or because the coin has a significant meaning to them or for any of a number of other reasons that have nothing to do with the 'value' of the coin.

A great collection may contain 100's of coins and still have a value that is very small. It can have a small number of coins that have a great value. Or it could fall somewhere in-between. The point being, the value of the coins does not make it a great collection. The quality of the coins, the completeness of the set (if indeed it is a set), the eye-appeal of each of the coins, whether or not the coins in a set are matched in terms of toning, color and wear, etc.

All of these things factor into the 'value' of a set and all of them are far more important to the 'value' of the set than the 'value' of any of the individual coins in the set.

In my mind, I use value as a relative indicator on what I should pay for a coin (unless I really want the coin and then price is no object) and for very little other than that. To me, anyone who is really hung-up on the value of thier coins is an investor and is not a collector.

And as a side note, a question for you - when you list your coins in your sig-line, is the value that you list what you paid for the coins or is it actually the market value for the coins? If it is what you paid for the coins, then the amount you list as a value is wrong and actually has nothing to do with the value of your collection. I know that I have coins in my collection where I have paid more than 'market value' for (and I am sure there are others on the boards who have done likewise) because I liked the coin and wanted to have it in my set. So it may be that I have spent more on the coins in my collection than I could get for the coins were I to try and sell them and I really don't care if that is the case - the coins are in my collection because I want them in my collection, not because they have great value. >>




most of the coins were the actual prices the coin was selling for at the market at the time. some of them arent, however, like the 1/20 oz coin those are the prices i paid for. i havent updated it in awhile, and unfortunately my signature is too long now to add any other gold coins Im getting. I will be getting 2 more soon, a 1896 french angel and a mexico 5 peso gold.

GoldCoinLover

<< <i>And read this thread from beginning to end. Call it your first lesson. Then get back with us.

>>



I don't understand much economics besides the usual supply and demand, scarcity, and that kind of stuff. I took it in school on the computer but ironically they never went over stocks, bonds, or any of that stuff. Alot of the terms in economics I dont understand. I did study once economics with calculus, that was interesting.

1jester

That's EXACTLY why you desparately need to read that thread. The whole thing. It'll be like a couple semesters of Economics 101 for the Street from the University of Hard Knocks. Go ahead, don't be afraid, read it. You'll learn a lot.



edit: read all the links too.

GoldCoinLover

my grandpa was an investor and he said you can't predict the price of silver and gold, because if you did corretly, you'd be rich.

1jester

I know. You're missing the point. The point is to learn. The thread is about gold. How about that? Are you interested yet?

gxseries

Exactly. How HARD is it to learn something NEW.

Gold is bloody violitale and if you dont' bother to learn WHY, you honestly are in a good shape to be trolled, not only by here, but by sellers and buyers.

"Oh, times are hard and people are selling whatever they can to get money $$$" And when you believe in that seller, you are in for a troll.
"OMG WAR!!! OUR MONEY IS LOSING VALUE!!! PEOPLE ARE HOARDING ONTO PRECIOUS METAL BULLIONS!!!" And when major banks sell off their gold hoards during those periods, you are in for another troll.

You definately can check the New York Times exchange rates etc, but look, if you can't understand even the most basic news and economics behind it, forget gold. You should just accept the prices and not ask WHY.

Back to YOUR topic, since you asked if there are no fakes or whatever, here is something YOU should learn. Generally unless it is a real rare gold coin, gold coins aren't that heavily counterfeited as it is or rather, was difficult to fix the alloy content to make the weight exactly the same as a gold coin. Previously counterfeited gold coins were either made of platinum alloy - gold plated or lead alloy - gold plated but each of them had their own problems. I don't intent to describe how terrible they look like, as you should do some research on them. And look, the purpose of counterfeiting gold coins is to either make coins out of something else from the genuine gold bullion, or to make some ridicious fantasy coins. Don't forget that coins minted before 1900s were minted accordingly to their metal content, especially gold. If you didn't think of that, you are going to be in a laughing stock - no one talked about it as this is fairly obvious...

Conder101

<< <i> Generally unless it is a real rare gold coin, gold coins aren't that heavily counterfeited as it is or rather, was difficult to fix the alloy content to make the weight exactly the same as a gold coin. >>


I'd have to take some small exception to that at least with US gold coins. Back in the 1960's a lot of common date US gold coins were counterfeited in the middle east and imported into this country. These coins were full weight and proper alloy. Why? Because at the time old gold coins were the only way that US citizens could own gold but old common date US gold coins were selling at around twice bullion value or more. So the counterfeiters could take $35 and oz gold, make it into common date US coins and sell it for $70 an oz or more. Why common dates and not rare ones? Because rare date coins would be much more closely scrutinized. It was the flood of these fake common date gold coins that was one of the major driving forces behind the creation of ANACS.

GCL

That is the reason coins that trade right around their bullion value, such as the french rooster or the angel are rarely counterfeited, no profit in it for full weight fakes and light weight ones would be instantly identified and therefor unsuccessful.

GoldCoinLover

<< <i>Exactly. How HARD is it to learn something NEW.

Gold is bloody violitale and if you dont' bother to learn WHY, you honestly are in a good shape to be trolled, not only by here, but by sellers and buyers.

"Oh, times are hard and people are selling whatever they can to get money $$$" And when you believe in that seller, you are in for a troll.
"OMG WAR!!! OUR MONEY IS LOSING VALUE!!! PEOPLE ARE HOARDING ONTO PRECIOUS METAL BULLIONS!!!" And when major banks sell off their gold hoards during those periods, you are in for another troll.

You definately can check the New York Times exchange rates etc, but look, if you can't understand even the most basic news and economics behind it, forget gold. You should just accept the prices and not ask WHY.

Back to YOUR topic, since you asked if there are no fakes or whatever, here is something YOU should learn. Generally unless it is a real rare gold coin, gold coins aren't that heavily counterfeited as it is or rather, was difficult to fix the alloy content to make the weight exactly the same as a gold coin. Previously counterfeited gold coins were either made of platinum alloy - gold plated or lead alloy - gold plated but each of them had their own problems. I don't intent to describe how terrible they look like, as you should do some research on them. And look, the purpose of counterfeiting gold coins is to either make coins out of something else from the genuine gold bullion, or to make some ridicious fantasy coins. Don't forget that coins minted before 1900s were minted accordingly to their metal content, especially gold. If you didn't think of that, you are going to be in a laughing stock - no one talked about it as this is fairly obvious... >>



as I said in my other post I do know the basics of ecnoomics and I took economics class.

dont tell me to forget gold just because I am willing to try and learn, that is not fair at all.
if you wont help me i will go to my grandpa who is an investor and he will.

coinmickey

And as a side note, a question for you - when you list your coins in your sig-line, is the value that you list what you paid for the coins or is it actually the market value for the coins? If it is what you paid for the coins, then the amount you list as a value is wrong and actually has nothing to do with the value of your collection.

This may be a little off the topic but why are you listing the coins you own with such specificity on an online message board that everyone can see??

Just thought I'd bring up the security aspect of things...

Carry on...

GoldCoinLover

Is there something wrong with that? It's not like they know where I live.

gxseries

You here are honestly disrespecting not only a dealer who has more than several years in trading coins, who most definately have more experience than YOU do, but also almost every member who has written in here. Not only did you piss almost everyone off who didn't agree with you by simply typing "ARE YOU GOING TO HELP ME OR NOT" even on just one tiny section, you just simply don't bloody care. People did give you decent advice and you only want to take in stuffs that YOU want to hear. Great - you might wanna try a nanny channel who can give you better attention.

I pity the next few people who are going to bother to reply.

Sylvestius

<< <i>as I said in my other post I do know the basics of ecnoomics and I took economics class.

dont tell me to forget gold just because I am willing to try and learn, that is not fair at all.
if you wont help me i will go to my grandpa who is an investor and he will. >>





Woe, woe, steady. Let me back track here.

From this i take it you are into coins for investment potential above all else? All of your questions have been answered by the board believe it or not (at least they seem to have from where i'm sitting). Of course the difference is the answers we gave may not have been the answers you were expecting and thus you may have missed them, or not realised they were the answers. This is basically because we here provide answers and tips about coin collecting and numismatics (i.e the study of coins, both their artistic merit and the role of the coin in it's historical context), generally speaking this is not a board that provides investment type answers and advice. I believe you were expecting answers relating to investment potential?

Why we don't general provide this is because like your grandpa stated we haven't got the foggiest (if we did have then some members on here would be getting rich), sure we might have decent estimations of how the market might perform based upon previous experience, but generally it's nothing certain so we don't give it.

The piece of advice i would give and many on this board would give. Coins are generally a bad investment.

The only way to really make decent profit on coins is to have your finger on the pulse of the market. And i'm not talking about bullion value, that's not really all that relevant unless the changes are drastic. Generally it's about knowing what the upcoming fashion is and the grades it's fashionable in. You have to know when to buy and when to sell. Some coins are better on a quick turn around, say if the price is going up swiftly due to a short term but strong demand, others are better to hold if the demand is weaker but in the long term it's going to rise steadily. The only way to make any profit is to be part of the market, like a dealer.

Sylvestius

To prove my point further about the market being more than the bullion value.

You buy a sovereign from a dealer for £58, that coin will generally continue to retail at £58 (or equivalent value 10 years down the line, say £68 due to inflation), a dealer will buy it from you for no more than say £53 (and this is often on a good day, 10 years from now he'll pay you £63 for it).

So you think, wow i bought it for £58 and sold it for £63... a profit! Well no... actually it's a loss. (Now that's very simplistically put) but it gets across a good point i think. Gold is an hedger against inflation, it protects your money from inflation. If you had put the £58 in cash under the mattress for ten years, then in 2015 it'll only buy you £48 worth of stuff. If you put it in gold it'd buy you a little bit more, but still less than your £58 intial investment.

That's as simplistic as it gets.

What makes a coin go up in value though is demand. Take British coins, your bog standard EF 1912 gold sovereign worth £58-£63 now, in ten years time maybe £68-73.

A tin farthing of 1684 in VF maybe £500 now, in ten years it maybe about £800 or £900. Tin is only a base metal, but as each year goes onthe surviving population will deteriorate (due to the highly reactive nature of the metal), which means supply will slowly fall, if deman remains constant/static then the price would go up slightly, if more people became interested then it would go up alot more.


As you'll have noticed already this investment lark is all IFS and BUTS, this is why i try an avoid the whole issue.

0john0

<< <i>

<< <i>a poor investment because it does not have much nusmimatic value and just its instrinsic value? >>


Correct. A coin that strictly has just its bullion value is at the mercy of the spot metal market. A coin with a numismatic value in demand by collectors is not so dependant and can go up in value even when the metal markets are going down. Over time as the number of collectors increase (or their incomes rise) the value of the numismatic coins wil rise even if the bullion market doesn't. >>



That being said, gold is at a 17 year high, and I just made a lot of $$ selling gold I bought earlier in the year.

Conder101

Congratulations. That doesn't change the fact that gold could just as easily go down the same amount over the next ten months and whoever bought at the price you sold at could lose a bundle. And during that 17 year period gold have been as low as almost half todays price. Whether you make money buying gold bullion and how much you make depends a lot on the luck of picking the right time to buy ight before it goes up. Guess wrong and it can go down, you can get in late and miss a good part of the upwards move, or too soon and your money winds up being tied up for a long time in an unproductive asset before it moves.