Are slabbed gold eagles really worth the premium?
timrutnat
Posts: 102 ✭✭
I like slabbed gold eagles because it protects the coin. But does anyone really think an MS69 gold eagle is really worth much of a premium over the raw coin? I will pay a few dollars for the slab but that's it.
0
Comments
Three dollars, give or take a buck.
<< <i> Just curious, what's a few dollars?
Three dollars, give or take a buck. >>
So basically you want something for nothing. I think the PCGS charges more than $3 to even their largest customers, but I could be wrong.
<< <i>...does anyone really think an MS69 gold eagle is really worth much of a premium over the raw coin?... >>
In my humble opinion, no. - Preussen
<< <i>Actually, I would pay more for the coin in the original mint packaging, for something like this. >>
Not a problem if you can afford it. I believe there are 20 to a treasury roll. That is $9320 melt. Eagles sell at a premium to melt.
<< <i><<So basically you want something for nothing. I think the PCGS charges more than $3 to even their largest customers, but I could be wrong.>>
For years, Tulving has sold PCGS MS69 $50 gold for the same price as raw ones, at least the current year ones. Not sure if he still does but the premium is minimal with him. >>
And he also required a minimum purchase of 20. If you read the fine print you would have discovered that the cost he compared it to was a single gold eagle, which sold at a premium, not the roll of 20 price. Looked like the same price, but it was not for the same thing.
PCGS coins = authentic = more credibility on eBay (and/or) local dealer can't say they're fakes and offer $50 as a "favor".
PCGS coins = authentic = more credibility on eBay (and/or) local dealer can't say they're fakes and offer $50 as a "favor".
Well, that seems to be a good point. I actually never thought about it from that angle. And that could very important as gold rises above $1000/oz.
With this in mind I'd look for the lower priced TPG's like ANACS, ICG, and maybe NTC.
<< <i>
<< <i>Actually, I would pay more for the coin in the original mint packaging, for something like this. >>
Not a problem if you can afford it. I believe there are 20 to a treasury roll. That is $9320 melt. Eagles sell at a premium to melt. >>
I was thinking of the proof sets. Sorry, I don't buy much Modern Crap™
<< <i>I was thinking of the proof sets. Sorry, I don't buy much Modern Crap™ >>
Technically speaking.......this is Bullion Crap™
i like the proof eagles pre 1908 better and strongly camered much better
The entire slabbing phenomenon is kind of Gresham's law in practice. Lay the two out on a table: One slabbed PCGS MS69, the other raw. You get to pick one. Which do you take? You can always crack the slab. But you can't wish a slab on the raw one.
Try it in reverse: You've got two, and you go to sell one. You lay them both on the counter and ask the dealer what he'll give you. If he says "No premium for the slab, they're both worth $X to me", which will you hand over? The raw of course. But if he says "$X premium for the slab", then you've answered the question and he's proven there is indeed a premium for the slab.
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<< <i> but if gold sky rockets a raw coin will be counterfeited just like the classic gold coins of today and the regular “Joe” will stay clear of them once they start to reach the market in numbers. >>
And if they are willing to go to all the trouble to counterfeit the modern bullion coins (and they have done it with the platinums) what makes you think they won't take the extra effort to counterfeit the slabs as well? And since most of the value of the modern bullion coin comes from the value of the gold in it, the only real way for a counterfeiter to profit from the skyrocketing value of gold would be to debase the counterfeits which would throw off the weight and possibly color and Specific Gravity as well. One of the reasons counterfeits of the classic gold coins tend to be good is because usually they used fully weight and fineness of the gold content. The profit comes from the numismatic premium over gold value. And on the classics coins that is usually a much higher premium than on the bullion coins. Think about it. If you are going to counterfeit a one oz gold coin, would you make a fake one oz UGE or a generic Saint-Gaudens double eagle that would easily pass as MS-63 - 65 quality. Although the counterfeiter would make a heck of a lot more by making fake quarter or half eagles. No, no good counterfeiter would waste their time on faking the bullion coins.
Frankly I am very surprised there hasn't been a lot more cases of counterfeit slabs over the years. So far there has just been the PCGS rattlers, and fake shells for ACG, SEGS, and ICG. (In the last three cases only the SEGS shell was used to try and pass the coin off as SEGS, the other two were shells being copied for use by another service.) How many people closely examine the slabs themselves? "Looks like a top tier slab so the coin must be ok."
" 2005 ($50)-1oz Gold Eagles PCGS MS69, spot + $19.00 todays price = 485"
I suspect you'll have a tough time finding raw coins a 4% over spot.
Buying them direct from the mint, they come in a nice package with a plastic holder and c.o.a.. Just not a TPG slab. So I didn't see any point in having them certified.
The best reason for it I got was REGISTRY SETS.
As I'm not trying to build one, I'm not sending mine in.
I will be looking for a good price on a raw silver eagle, when the 06s come out. For my album. And they only sell the proof coins direct from the mint, to the gen. public.
pz
(Priest) BLASPHEMY he said it again, did you hear him?
<< <i>Frankly I am very surprised there hasn't been a lot more cases of counterfeit slabs over the years. >>
...as far as we know.
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.