Where is DaBigFool with his genius morning commentary. I've read his posts on many different threads and I have concluded that the guy is just one jealous, frustrated person.
Come now don't rip on DBH. His comments are insitefull, factual and are always a good read. I enjoy his comments and always look forward to the next one.
<< <i>Where is DaBigFool with his genius morning commentary. I've read his posts on many different threads and I have concluded that the guy is just one jealous, frustrated person.
DBH, consider getting some psychiatric help. >>
Heh..I need psychiatric help when YOU'RE the one that just registered on the forum just to stalk me?
LOL....DaBigHurt.........you know how to entertain Nice snap of the dishtowel on the rookie fittingly referred to as "pimp"......Baaaa Haaaa Haaaaa! Keep it alive in 2005 (your 93 Refractor Debate).......remember the A's "Keep It Alive in 75".....was the slogan of the Oakland A's in follow up to their 3 consecutive WS Championships.....alas the 4th was close but not to be......Charlie had the fire sale and really screwed things up after that! How's that for some off topic dialogue
Now on with the debate or is it a battle of the ego's? Most of these Mono E Mono's with the gloves off really come down to ego's......and oh what fun it's been reading each retort. I have yet to see a knockdown.......but it sure looks like one may happen soon......absolute facts usually provide the knockout. We're all waiting for one of you two to provide us with irrefutable evidence as to which of you is actually spilling fact or fiction regarding the 93 Refactors. Certainly there must be someone out there that can confirm which of these ego's are shouting in the right direction? Sadly, like many of the audience on the sidelines, I know nothing about these 93 Refractors. But I certainly know a good battle of the ego's when I see one
I'll take the guy who has collected seven of these sets words a lot more closely than our current combatants. Someone accurately stated the truth no doubt lies somewhere in the middle.
For those that are not familiar with '93 Finest refractors, all they have to do is head to Ebay and search the completed and auctions currently running. The numbers speak for themselves. No amount of double talk, spinning or trying to change the subject will change those numbers.
I've been following the trends for '93 refractors, as I'm sure others have. They'll tell you about the thousands and thousands of refractors that have hit the market in the last year.
Think about it. In the last 2-3 weeks, there have been almost 400 completed sales of '93 refractors. This isn't anything new. If it was, I wouldn't be talking about the refractors. I would be busy buying them! But when something like this happens for THIS long, collectors would have to be crazy not to wonder what the heck is going on.
I agree with CDsNuts on this one. Any 'dumping', 'back-dooring', whatever you want to call it, would have occurred a long time ago when prices were at their peaks, not now, when they are a fraction of what they were in the mid to late 90's.
I'd love to hear what Philip Gold has to say about the current state of '93 refractors.
I believe he's been accumulating them since day one and has over 2,000 now?
Almost overlooked in this thread is JMD's comment that on most days, the graders at PSA can't really tell the difference between PSA 8's, 9's and 10's. Veteran collectors of PSA '93 refractors already know this, which makes some of the prices realized for 'high grade' refractors even more outrageous.
<< <i>i have only followed 1 refractor over the past 2 years (ron gant), and there have been less than 20 of them. I own 13 or 14 of them..
i'm gonna get PhilG in on this discussion.. >>
I received an email from Phil yesterday and he emphatically believes that there was absolutely NO backdoor dumping. He's a nice guy who probaby won't want to get bogged down in DBH's whining and sensationalism.
But I'll email Phil to see if he wouldn't mind to step in and speak for himself. He owns approximately 5% of the total number of Refractors released. And he's not selling. Here's a link to his web posting, currently updated. Phil's collection
To all those collecing and/or investing in 1993 Refractors, the future is bright, as more and more set builders are building their sets. Prices will continue to rise, especially on high-end graded copies.
You're all incredibly ignorant, especially DaBigHurt. You sound like a group of women gossiping about what Oprah said. I've yet to see a single post here with any substance to back up what you've said. For starters, if you actually think the Topps Corporation gives a flying crap about some product they made 12 years ago, you need to take your head out of your backside and floss your teeth rid of what's in between. Are you morons actually serious? Law suit's? Give me a case number or shut the F-up. Re-printing refractors? Are you stupid? Yeah, a company like Topps, which happens to be one of the largest confectionary compaines in the world, is going to waste thier time reprinting cardboard.
As if any card ever made will actually be worth more in 5 years than it is right now. Are you people seriously that stupid to begin with? Released production runs? Show me where Topps has ever once released a production number on a card that does not come with a printed serial number or shut the F-up. It's no wonder the card business still survives, it's powered by idiots who actually think the things they read in places like this one are true. You people see 1/10th of 1% of what was printed for sale, and all of a sudden Topps is re-printing cards. Get a life you star wars dweeb wanna-be's.
<< <i>To all those collecing and/or investing in 1993 Refractors, the future is bright, as more and more set builders are building their sets. Prices will continue to rise, especially on high-end graded copies. >>
Spoken like a person with money tied up in a product that's plummeting in value.
Here's what JMB said yesterday about the Gonzalez refractors.
<<Prices have dropped on the Juan Gonzalez in particular because many collectors are resubmitting their 8's and 9's and more raw copies are getting graded.>>
So wait...I'm suppose to run out there and buy 'high-end graded' refractors when PSA can't tell the difference between 8's, 9's and 10's??
Combine that with the hundreds of refractors hitting Ebay every single week, these cards sound like they have nowhere to go but up!!
I don't mean this to sound harsh, but you need to get laid.
As far as my comments go, you (as usual) took them out of context, cut-and-pasted them, and used your own ill-defined logic to further your ill-defined case. As you know, with ANY issue of high-value cards, many collectors resubmit many times over to eventually get the grade bump. This is not a thread on the inherent subjectivity of grading; my comment was made correctly that ANY set of PSA graded cards will sell for more when they are being newly graded and before more copies are graded.
Down the line, however, the outlook for these cards is very bright.
Please don't think that I am betting on these cards to retire on (ha!) -- it would be foolish to base one's retirement or any significant portion of a portfolio on baseball cards; there are exceptions to this statement, but I'm not one of them. I am merely trying to build a nice set to give to my son someday.
Believe me, I'll be financially A-0K even if Topps produces a 2006 Baseball set called "1993 Refractors" and fills every pack with them. According to you, this is coming, no?
P.S. It is a rare example to find someone on an anonymous message board that takes such obvious pleasure in seeing people lose money, have their eBay ID suspended, or come to other misfortunes. This is what you are known for and I truly pity you for that.
The fact that individuals go to all the trouble to set up new accounts to flame you further illuminates my point
<< <i>P.S. It is a rare example to find someone on an anonymous message board that takes such obvious pleasure in seeing people lose money, have their eBay ID suspended, or come to other misfortunes. This is what you are known for and I truly pity you for that.
The fact that individuals go to all the trouble to set up new accounts to flame you further illuminates my point >>
I'm puzzled by this.
I made this thread originally to point out that something is wrong about the Nomo auction, as well as other mirror golds that closed. People were able to draw their own conclusions. Are you now arguing that this person who normally sells $3 makeup kits and then decides to bid $2,000 for mirror golds is NOT fishy!?!
I don't know where you get this "takes such obvious pleasure in seeing people lose money" nonsense from, but it's not from me. YOU were the one who brought up '93 finest refractors and I told you matter of factly, something is up with the refractor market.
This Ebay ID suspension and "misfortunes" mumbo jumbo? Have you really gone off the deep end?
Phil has recently started a thread. Enjoy your humble pie.
As I've been saying numerous times on this thread, there is NO conspiracy; rather, it has to do with graded copies of the Refractors demanding a serious premium over raw, the market picking back up, and individuals that HOARDED the product deciding to unload.
DBH, the sky is not falling, the set is still great! Why don't you come back into the fold and start collecting these again? We'd love to have you.....
JMB, as I stated in Phil's thread, I'll probably come back to the '93 refractors, but not right now. No rush really given the current climate and they're still somewhat pricey (not nearly as high as before, but still expensive enough).
I won't be buying for the PSA Set Registry though. As you know, grades are WAYYYYY too inconsistent. It's a terrific vehicle to sell your cards, but in my opinion, a waste of money if you're going to put together a set from just buying 9's and 10's on Ebay.
I know -- buying 9's and 10's on eBay for the purpose of the registry is absolutely crazy. Very expensive. Luckily, 90+% of my Registry was bought raw. As far as the inconsistent grading, I've sent a few 8's back that I thought could/should be 9's, but I haven't heard anything yet. I've got absolutely gorgeous 9's of Clemens and Sandberg, but I don't have the balls to send them back in yet.
Auctionhelper, a consignment service for eBay selling, did recently sell 2-3 PSA 9's of every player that he was liquidating for a customer, however; that was probably the only time ever where buying PSA 9 was equal to (and sometimes cheaper than) buying raw.
I was getting my grades back in 2-3 days, but PSA has really slowed down -- they must be getting busier.
P.S. BTW, I'm not "pimp." I wouldn't do that to you.
I hate Star Wars but love collecting 93 Refractors.
Spend your money wisely and rent "Closer." At least you'll have a better chance of seeing Natalie Portman naked.
FYI - One late night on the set George Lucas came to me dressed in a priest's outfit. He promised to show me naked pictures of Carrie Fisher if I let him hold my light saber. No big deal - he's all smoke and mirrors anyway.
Comments
DBH, consider getting some psychiatric help.
Stingray
<< <i>Where is DaBigFool with his genius morning commentary. I've read his posts on many different threads and I have concluded that the guy is just one jealous, frustrated person.
DBH, consider getting some psychiatric help. >>
Heh..I need psychiatric help when YOU'RE the one that just registered on the forum just to stalk me?
GO MARLINS! Home of the best fans in baseball!!
Now on with the debate or is it a battle of the ego's? Most of these Mono E Mono's with the gloves off really come down to ego's......and oh what fun it's been reading each retort. I have yet to see a knockdown.......but it sure looks like one may happen soon......absolute facts usually provide the knockout. We're all waiting for one of you two to provide us with irrefutable evidence as to which of you is actually spilling fact or fiction regarding the 93 Refactors. Certainly there must be someone out there that can confirm which of these ego's are shouting in the right direction? Sadly, like many of the audience on the sidelines, I know nothing about these 93 Refractors. But I certainly know a good battle of the ego's when I see one
Have a wonderful day!
For those that are not familiar with '93 Finest refractors, all they have to do is head to Ebay and search the completed and auctions currently running. The numbers speak for themselves. No amount of double talk, spinning or trying to change the subject will change those numbers.
I've been following the trends for '93 refractors, as I'm sure others have. They'll tell you about the thousands and thousands of refractors that have hit the market in the last year.
Think about it. In the last 2-3 weeks, there have been almost 400 completed sales of '93 refractors. This isn't anything new. If it was, I wouldn't be talking about the refractors. I would be busy buying them! But when something like this happens for THIS long, collectors would have to be crazy not to wonder what the heck is going on.
GO MARLINS! Home of the best fans in baseball!!
i have only followed 1 refractor over the past 2 years (ron gant), and there have been less than 20 of them. I own 13 or 14 of them..
i'm gonna get PhilG in on this discussion..
<< <i>i have only followed 1 refractor over the past 2 years (ron gant), and there have been less than 20 of them. I own 13 or 14 of them..
i'm gonna get PhilG in on this discussion.. >>
you're right, pandrews, Phil is the authoritative source on '93 Refractors...
I believe he's been accumulating them since day one and has over 2,000 now?
Almost overlooked in this thread is JMD's comment that on most days, the graders at PSA can't really tell the difference between PSA 8's, 9's and 10's. Veteran collectors of PSA '93 refractors already know this, which makes some of the prices realized for 'high grade' refractors even more outrageous.
GO MARLINS! Home of the best fans in baseball!!
i can tell you Phil believes the number produced is around 290 of each, with no SP's..
<< <i>i have only followed 1 refractor over the past 2 years (ron gant), and there have been less than 20 of them. I own 13 or 14 of them..
i'm gonna get PhilG in on this discussion.. >>
I received an email from Phil yesterday and he emphatically believes that there was absolutely NO backdoor dumping. He's a nice guy who probaby won't want to get bogged down in DBH's whining and sensationalism.
But I'll email Phil to see if he wouldn't mind to step in and speak for himself. He owns approximately 5% of the total number of Refractors released. And he's not selling. Here's a link to his web posting, currently updated. Phil's collection
To all those collecing and/or investing in 1993 Refractors, the future is bright, as more and more set builders are building their sets. Prices will continue to rise, especially on high-end graded copies.
You're all incredibly ignorant, especially DaBigHurt. You sound like a group of women gossiping about what Oprah said. I've yet to see a single post here with any substance to back up what you've said. For starters, if you actually think the Topps Corporation gives a flying crap about some product they made 12 years ago, you need to take your head out of your backside and floss your teeth rid of what's in between. Are you morons actually serious? Law suit's? Give me a case number or shut the F-up. Re-printing refractors? Are you stupid? Yeah, a company like Topps, which happens to be one of the largest confectionary compaines in the world, is going to waste thier time reprinting cardboard.
As if any card ever made will actually be worth more in 5 years than it is right now. Are you people seriously that stupid to begin with? Released production runs? Show me where Topps has ever once released a production number on a card that does not come with a printed serial number or shut the F-up. It's no wonder the card business still survives, it's powered by idiots who actually think the things they read in places like this one are true. You people see 1/10th of 1% of what was printed for sale, and all of a sudden Topps is re-printing cards. Get a life you star wars dweeb wanna-be's.
Bunch of dumb asses.
You said dweeb.
pimps life consists of reading pages of writing by people he says "need to get a life".. heh..
<< <i>To all those collecing and/or investing in 1993 Refractors, the future is bright, as more and more set builders are building their sets. Prices will continue to rise, especially on high-end graded copies. >>
Spoken like a person with money tied up in a product that's plummeting in value.
Here's what JMB said yesterday about the Gonzalez refractors.
<<Prices have dropped on the Juan Gonzalez in particular because many collectors are resubmitting their 8's and 9's and more raw copies are getting graded.>>
So wait...I'm suppose to run out there and buy 'high-end graded' refractors when PSA can't tell the difference between 8's, 9's and 10's??
Combine that with the hundreds of refractors hitting Ebay every single week, these cards sound like they have nowhere to go but up!!
GO MARLINS! Home of the best fans in baseball!!
I don't mean this to sound harsh, but you need to get laid.
As far as my comments go, you (as usual) took them out of context, cut-and-pasted them, and used your own ill-defined logic to further your ill-defined case. As you know, with ANY issue of high-value cards, many collectors resubmit many times over to eventually get the grade bump. This is not a thread on the inherent subjectivity of grading; my comment was made correctly that ANY set of PSA graded cards will sell for more when they are being newly graded and before more copies are graded.
Down the line, however, the outlook for these cards is very bright.
Please don't think that I am betting on these cards to retire on (ha!) -- it would be foolish to base one's retirement or any significant portion of a portfolio on baseball cards; there are exceptions to this statement, but I'm not one of them. I am merely trying to build a nice set to give to my son someday.
Believe me, I'll be financially A-0K even if Topps produces a 2006 Baseball set called "1993 Refractors" and fills every pack with them. According to you, this is coming, no?
The fact that individuals go to all the trouble to set up new accounts to flame you further illuminates my point
GO MARLINS! Home of the best fans in baseball!!
<< <i>P.S. It is a rare example to find someone on an anonymous message board that takes such obvious pleasure in seeing people lose money, have their eBay ID suspended, or come to other misfortunes. This is what you are known for and I truly pity you for that.
The fact that individuals go to all the trouble to set up new accounts to flame you further illuminates my point >>
I'm puzzled by this.
I made this thread originally to point out that something is wrong about the Nomo auction, as well as other mirror golds that closed. People were able to draw their own conclusions. Are you now arguing that this person who normally sells $3 makeup kits and then decides to bid $2,000 for mirror golds is NOT fishy!?!
I don't know where you get this "takes such obvious pleasure in seeing people lose money" nonsense from, but it's not from me. YOU were the one who brought up '93 finest refractors and I told you matter of factly, something is up with the refractor market.
This Ebay ID suspension and "misfortunes" mumbo jumbo? Have you really gone off the deep end?
GO MARLINS! Home of the best fans in baseball!!
As I've been saying numerous times on this thread, there is NO conspiracy; rather, it has to do with graded copies of the Refractors demanding a serious premium over raw, the market picking back up, and individuals that HOARDED the product deciding to unload.
DBH, the sky is not falling, the set is still great! Why don't you come back into the fold and start collecting these again? We'd love to have you.....
I won't be buying for the PSA Set Registry though. As you know, grades are WAYYYYY too inconsistent. It's a terrific vehicle to sell your cards, but in my opinion, a waste of money if you're going to put together a set from just buying 9's and 10's on Ebay.
GO MARLINS! Home of the best fans in baseball!!
Auctionhelper, a consignment service for eBay selling, did recently sell 2-3 PSA 9's of every player that he was liquidating for a customer, however; that was probably the only time ever where buying PSA 9 was equal to (and sometimes cheaper than) buying raw.
I was getting my grades back in 2-3 days, but PSA has really slowed down -- they must be getting busier.
P.S. BTW, I'm not "pimp." I wouldn't do that to you.
<< <i> Get a life you star wars dweeb wanna-be's.
Bunch of dumb asses. >>
I hate Star Wars but love collecting 93 Refractors.
Spend your money wisely and rent "Closer." At least you'll have a better chance of seeing Natalie Portman naked.
FYI - One late night on the set George Lucas came to me dressed in a priest's outfit. He promised to show me naked pictures of Carrie Fisher if I let him hold my light saber. No big deal - he's all smoke and mirrors anyway.
Yours,
Mark "pimp" Hamill