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A Fake Barber Half?????

ireichelireichel Posts: 553
in U.S. Coin Forum
Good morning everyone. I just received an email from PCGS with the grades of a submission of 8 Barber halves, all keys and semi keys, all VG-VF. The 1914 coin has been designated NOT GENUINE. I am confused as to why someone would go to the trouble to counterfeit a coin (and an amazing one at that since the coin was cracked from an ANACS holder and sure fooled me) in Fine or Very Fine condition. I could understand if the coin was MS65. I am very interested in your insights. Thanks.image
Irv Reichel

Comments

  • LanLordLanLord Posts: 11,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
    PCGS profit sharing plan,

    resubmit and you have your cross over, they have their profit sharing.
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 34,847 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The 1914-P half dollar is one of the better dates in the series. It has a wholesale value of $150 to $225 in the grade in VG-Fine. If the coin is "no genuine" I'm guessing that someone removed the mint mark from a 1914-S. The coin was made by a U.S. mint; it's just been altered to make it look like a P mint coin.

    I'm surprised that ANACS could have missed this. Usually they are excellent at catching counterfeits.
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • MercMerc Posts: 1,647 ✭✭
    Wow, counterfeit Barber halves are unusual. Most are cast copies made to fool merchants years ago. I guess the price upswing for the 1914-P has caused some modern counterfeiters to remove the mintmark.
    Looking for a coin club in Maryland? Try:
    FrederickCoinClub
  • krankykranky Posts: 8,709 ✭✭✭
    I wouldn't necessarily assume the coin isn't good. You have one opinion (ANACS) that the coin was OK and one opinion (PCGS) that it wasn't. I'd try it again.

    New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.

  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 34,847 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Wow, counterfeit Barber halves are unusual. Most are cast copies made to fool merchants years ago. I guess the price upswing for the 1914-P has caused some modern counterfeiters to remove the mintmark. >>



    I'm not 100% sure that it is a removed mint mark in this case, but I'm 95% sure. image Striking a totally bogus coin and then wearing it down to VG-F would be too much trouble for a crook. Most of the cast copies that were produced back in the early 1900s were so bad, that no one who has a decent knowledge about the real coins would be fooled by them.
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • MFHMFH Posts: 11,720 ✭✭✭✭

    I'm more than surprised that ANACS missed this. I'm sure Bill Jones is 100% on target. It must have been a removed mint mark, but how did ANACS not catch this ?

    This is the first time I have heard of someone playing with Barber halves...quarters yes.
    Mike Hayes
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Coin collecting is not a hobby, it's an obsession !

    New Barber Purchases
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,895 ✭✭✭✭✭
    MFH---You're assuming ANACS was wrong and PCGS was correct. Let's not forget who slabbed all the micro O morgan dollars that were later discovered to be counterfeit.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • ARCOARCO Posts: 4,431 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Barber halves are almost never counterfeited. However, the few that are, are usually the late date P mints, made by removing the mintmark. I have seen a VF 1915 with the mintmark removed, and it was very difficult to tell.

    Like others have said, it is possible that PCGS is mistaken. I have owned a number of P mint halves that have had hits, marks and scruffs on or near the mintmark area that can be confused or even possibly look like a removed mintmark. Can you get a close up image for us to peruse?

    Tyler
  • ireichelireichel Posts: 553
    When the coin arrives back, I will scan it. By the way, can you give me instructions as to how to post a scan? Thanks again.
    Irv Reichel
  • dorkkarldorkkarl Posts: 12,691 ✭✭✭
    don't assume that anacs "missed something", w/ the info known so far it's just as possible that pcge "missed something".

    send the coin to SEGS, there is no better authenticator then larry briggs.

    K S
  • Conder101Conder101 Posts: 10,536 ✭
    It's probably a typo error by PCGS when the grader entered it into the computer (hit 98, a bodybag code, for the grade instead of 08.) PCGS does make mistakes like his sometimes. Remember they once bodybagged a proof quarter that THEY cacked out of the mint holder as a counterfeit. Errors like that can happen, and they make great stories.
  • jdimmickjdimmick Posts: 9,784 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hard to say, some good points noted, I would be very surprised if ANACS missed an altered coin. As far as removed mintmarks, I have seen 2 1914-p Barber halves with removed mintmarks in the past few weeks, both brought into a local shop. One was graded vg , the other a near fine. Tough to see at first glance, but definitely a removed MM under closer inspection.
  • flaminioflaminio Posts: 5,664 ✭✭✭
    Did fear of another fake scare you off this one?

    I like Conder101's typo explanation image. In any case, you've got one positive and one negative opinion. I'd resubmit once more before forming a conclusion.
  • LeeGLeeG Posts: 12,162 ✭


    << <i>Did fear of another fake scare you off this one? >>



    Nice lead in question flaminioimage
  • GTSGTS Posts: 300


    << <i>Did fear of another fake scare you off this one?

    BUSTED


    GTS
  • DoctorPaperDoctorPaper Posts: 616 ✭✭✭
    Counterfeit Barber halves and quarters are bad enough. How about this counterfeit Barber dime I found in a roll dimes 20 years ago? It's only an "'02P", not even a '94S!!
    image
    Wisconsin nationals: gotta love 'em....
  • Dave99BDave99B Posts: 8,704 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Interesting....I would expect this is a clerical mistake of some kind. I can't imagine ANACS slabbing an altered, or fake coin.

    I'm very interested in seeing your image. When you get a pic, just let me know and I’ll help you get it up on the link.

    Take care,
    Dave
    Always looking for original, better date VF20-VF35 Barber quarters and halves, and a quality beer.

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