I'm Confused . . .
NewJerseyMeatHook
Posts: 1,441
Not much of a modern collector, but I buy a box of 05 Donruss. Not being overally interested in the inserts, I throw 'em on the bay. Now, question: Why is this card generating so much attention?
Any opinions would be appreciated. Perhaps I'm an idiot, but I've never even heard of this guy.
Any opinions would be appreciated. Perhaps I'm an idiot, but I've never even heard of this guy.
0
Comments
Minnie Minoso Master and Basic
1967 Topps PSA 8+
1960's Topps run Mega Set
"For me, playing baseball has been like a war and I was defending the uniform I wore, Every time I put on the uniform I respected it like the American flag. I wore it like I was representing every Latin country."--Minnie Minoso
Rick
Just curious what your handle NewJerseyMeatHook means?
<< <i>Just curious what your handle NewJerseyMeatHook means? >>
It's what you get when you talk about the wrong people.
Minnie Minoso Master and Basic
1967 Topps PSA 8+
1960's Topps run Mega Set
"For me, playing baseball has been like a war and I was defending the uniform I wore, Every time I put on the uniform I respected it like the American flag. I wore it like I was representing every Latin country."--Minnie Minoso
The football fans out ther should know what I mean.
<< <i>If Matt Jones performs well as a rookie, his cards will take off. Let's face it, in today's NFL he is rarity. There are very few players like him playing the WR position.
The football fans out ther should know what I mean. >>
Ok, I really don't like where that is heading.
Minnie Minoso Master and Basic
1967 Topps PSA 8+
1960's Topps run Mega Set
"For me, playing baseball has been like a war and I was defending the uniform I wore, Every time I put on the uniform I respected it like the American flag. I wore it like I was representing every Latin country."--Minnie Minoso
BTW, ndleo, are you going to be at Gibraltar this weekend?
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<< <i>If Matt Jones performs well as a rookie, his cards will take off. Let's face it, in today's NFL he is rarity. There are very few players like him playing the WR position.
The football fans out ther should know what I mean. >>
Ok, I really don't like where that is heading. >>
Oh, c'mon-- there is nothing even covertly racist being conveyed here. We all recognize that the subject of race in sports is sensitive, but all anyone is doing here is stating a legitimate opinion.
Minnie Minoso Master and Basic
1967 Topps PSA 8+
1960's Topps run Mega Set
"For me, playing baseball has been like a war and I was defending the uniform I wore, Every time I put on the uniform I respected it like the American flag. I wore it like I was representing every Latin country."--Minnie Minoso
<< <i>I can respect your "legitimate opinion" doesn't mean I have to agree with it. >>
I concur. But whether you agree with it our not has no bearing on whether or not the opinion being stated is racist, which was the insinuation of your prior post. If you don't think Jones' cards will take off if he excels, or that the appreciation won't be inordinate, then fine-- but don't imply that those who opine to the contrary are being racially insensitive.
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<< <i>I can respect your "legitimate opinion" doesn't mean I have to agree with it. >>
I concur. But whether you agree with it our not has no bearing on whether or not the opinion being stated is racist, which was the insinuation of your prior post. If you don't think Jones' cards will take off if he excels, or that the appreciation won't be inordinate, then fine-- but don't imply that those who opine to the contrary are being racially insensitive. >>
Let's see you base your whole opinion on race yet it isn't racist.
Never said his cards won't appreciate but it won't be because he is white or at least shouldn't be.
I see cards of "black" players selling pretty well guys like Griffey, Bonds, Willie Mays, Hank Aaron, Donovan McNabb, Jerry Rice but hey like you said if they were "white" the sky is the limit.
Minnie Minoso Master and Basic
1967 Topps PSA 8+
1960's Topps run Mega Set
"For me, playing baseball has been like a war and I was defending the uniform I wore, Every time I put on the uniform I respected it like the American flag. I wore it like I was representing every Latin country."--Minnie Minoso
edit - the above .GIF does not neccesarily reflect the views or opinions of pandrews.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I can respect your "legitimate opinion" doesn't mean I have to agree with it. >>
I concur. But whether you agree with it our not has no bearing on whether or not the opinion being stated is racist, which was the insinuation of your prior post. If you don't think Jones' cards will take off if he excels, or that the appreciation won't be inordinate, then fine-- but don't imply that those who opine to the contrary are being racially insensitive. >>
Let's see you base your whole opinion on race yet it isn't racist.
Never said his cards won't appreciate but it won't be because he is white or at least shouldn't be.
I see cards of "black" players selling pretty well guys like Griffey, Bonds, Willie Mays, Hank Aaron, Donovan McNabb, Jerry Rice but hey like you said if they were "white" the sky is the limit. >>
This argument is quickly veering towards the absurd, so I'll end my part in it right now.
This will probably be taken the wrong way, but Jeff, you need to learn to read more critically.
a) Yes, my whole opinion is based on race. So what? Having an opinion based on race isn't 'racist'. Racism, in the formal sense, means to exclude or demean someone because of racial considerations. It should be clear that I'm not doing that, since nobody is being exluded or demeaned.
b) Your confusing 'what should be' with 'what is'. This is like my wife wanting to go out on a six mile jog after dark because 'she should be able to without fearing for her safety'. I don't dispute that. But the fact remains that she DOES have to fear for her safety, and that's the central issue.
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<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I can respect your "legitimate opinion" doesn't mean I have to agree with it. >>
I concur. But whether you agree with it our not has no bearing on whether or not the opinion being stated is racist, which was the insinuation of your prior post. If you don't think Jones' cards will take off if he excels, or that the appreciation won't be inordinate, then fine-- but don't imply that those who opine to the contrary are being racially insensitive. >>
Let's see you base your whole opinion on race yet it isn't racist.
Never said his cards won't appreciate but it won't be because he is white or at least shouldn't be.
I see cards of "black" players selling pretty well guys like Griffey, Bonds, Willie Mays, Hank Aaron, Donovan McNabb, Jerry Rice but hey like you said if they were "white" the sky is the limit. >>
This argument is quickly veering towards the absurd, so I'll end my part in it right now.
This will probably be taken the wrong way, but Jeff, you need to learn to read more critically.
a) Yes, my whole opinion is based on race. So what? Having an opinion based on race isn't 'racist'. Racism, in the formal sense, means to exclude or demean someone because of racial considerations. It should be clear that I'm not doing that, since nobody is being exluded or demeaned.
b) Your confusing 'what should be' with 'what is'. This is like my wife wanting to go out on a six mile jog after dark because 'she should be able to without fearing for her safety'. I don't dispute that. But the fact remains that she DOES have to fear for her safety, and that's the central issue. >>
It's ok I've accepted that ignorance still exists in this world I was just hoping I could talk sports without it rearing its head. Boopotts I have nothing against you or 99% of your posts. I just can't fall in line with this one.
Minnie Minoso Master and Basic
1967 Topps PSA 8+
1960's Topps run Mega Set
"For me, playing baseball has been like a war and I was defending the uniform I wore, Every time I put on the uniform I respected it like the American flag. I wore it like I was representing every Latin country."--Minnie Minoso
Tiger Woods supposely brought more blacks to golf (I don't know for sure, but that it what ESPN says). For all the reasons that occurred, I'm sure one of them was because he is black. There is nothing wrong with that as long as it doesn't become an exclusionairy criteria.
I don't think people who like Matt Jones for his uniqueness will necessarily not like Marvin Harrison (I was going to say TO or Moss, but that would be a bad example!).
"It's ok I've accepted that ignorance still exists in this world.."
Ignorance belies a lack of knowledge. I would be interested to hear you explain how any of my prior posts on this subject betray a lack of knowledge regarding the dynamics surrounding race in sports.
Minnie Minoso Master and Basic
1967 Topps PSA 8+
1960's Topps run Mega Set
"For me, playing baseball has been like a war and I was defending the uniform I wore, Every time I put on the uniform I respected it like the American flag. I wore it like I was representing every Latin country."--Minnie Minoso
<< <i>'what should be' with 'what is'. >>
Boo
Do you remember this being referred to as the "Naturalistic Fallacy?"
Deriving an "ought" from what "is."
What year did you graduate? Sorry, I know this is OT.
mike
I do remember that, although I think we called the 'ought' the 'normative'.
I graduated in '96, although I flunked out in '92 and had to get reinstated. I graduated from HS in '90.
<< <i>If I have learned one thing in my years on message boards it is that I can't win this argument. >>
Jeff
I've been married for 25 yrs., I'm lucky if I win any arguments!
<< <i>If I have learned one thing in my years on message boards it is that I can't win this argument. >>
You 'win' if you can explain how either mine or ndleo's initial posts are either ignorant or racist. If you can't, then we (I) win.
I'll be gracious in defeat-- and I'm being serious here, I will admit if I'm wrong-- but the ball is in your court.
If Matt Jones does well and his cards go through the roof, then we can all speculate why. It could be because he is the ROY. Or it could be because Jacksonville makes a run. Or it could be that ESPN will be all over him.
Anyways, this has turned negative when it really shouldn't have. This argument is as old as the Mantle vs. Mays debate.
BTW - Matt Jones had another great game. This card may break three digits.
<< <i>I don't think there is a wrong or right on this one. >>
There is a right or wrong if the assertion is that either of our initial posts were racist.
Let some team sign a 3 ft. 6 inch midget to play WR in the NFL and we'll see what kind of discussion we get out of that?
Meat, I apologize in advance.
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<< <i>If I have learned one thing in my years on message boards it is that I can't win this argument. >>
You 'win' if you can explain how either mine or ndleo's initial posts are either ignorant or racist. If you can't, then we (I) win.
I'll be gracious in defeat-- and I'm being serious here, I will admit if I'm wrong-- but the ball is in your court. >>
Why do you think that Matt Jones will sell better than a black player if he plays well?
Minnie Minoso Master and Basic
1967 Topps PSA 8+
1960's Topps run Mega Set
"For me, playing baseball has been like a war and I was defending the uniform I wore, Every time I put on the uniform I respected it like the American flag. I wore it like I was representing every Latin country."--Minnie Minoso
Because he is white, which will generate inordinate amounts of press, which will in turn make his collectibles more attractive.
I'm not saying I agree this this is the way it 'should' be, only that this is the way i see it playing out. Again, note that if you disagree with this you CANNOT disagree on the basis that I'm being racially insensitive. You can say I'm being cynical, but that's a different allegation entirely.
<< <i>If Matt Jones performs well as a rookie, his cards will take off. Let's face it, in today's NFL he is rarity. There are very few players like him playing the WR position.
The football fans out ther should know what I mean. >>
And I do take this as a racist statement it is filled with insinuations.
Players like him playing the wr position?
Today's NFL he is a rarity?
The football fans out ther should know what I mean?
Yeah I know what you mean your pointing him out to be "white" when all those "black guys" are kicking arse on the field.
Last I checked Ed McAffrey and Tom Waddle weren't flying off the shelf or even Largent for that matter.
Minnie Minoso Master and Basic
1967 Topps PSA 8+
1960's Topps run Mega Set
"For me, playing baseball has been like a war and I was defending the uniform I wore, Every time I put on the uniform I respected it like the American flag. I wore it like I was representing every Latin country."--Minnie Minoso
<< <i>"Why do you think that Matt Jones will sell better than a black player if he plays well?"
Because he is white, which will generate inordinate amounts of press, which will in turn make his collectibles more attractive.
I'm not saying I agree this this is the way it 'should' be, only that this is the way i see it playing out. >>
I just don't see it. Maybe 30 years ago yes but I sure don't see this now.
Minnie Minoso Master and Basic
1967 Topps PSA 8+
1960's Topps run Mega Set
"For me, playing baseball has been like a war and I was defending the uniform I wore, Every time I put on the uniform I respected it like the American flag. I wore it like I was representing every Latin country."--Minnie Minoso
<< <i>I've been married for 25 yrs., I'm lucky if I win any arguments! >>
And, of course, the natural progression is that I just don't get into any arguments.
"You're right, dear."
"OK, I'll do it tomorrow."
"No, dear, she's ugly as sin."
"No, I've stopped buying Ernie Banks cards on ebay."
<< <i>
<< <i>If Matt Jones performs well as a rookie, his cards will take off. Let's face it, in today's NFL he is rarity. There are very few players like him playing the WR position.
The football fans out ther should know what I mean. >>
And I do take this as a racist statement it is filled with insinuations.
Players like him playing the wr position?
Today's NFL he is a rarity?
The football fans out ther should know what I mean?
Yeah I know what you mean your pointing him out to be "white" when all those "black guys" are kicking arse on the field.
Last I checked Ed McAffrey and Tom Waddle weren't flying off the shelf or even Largent for that matter. >>
Whuh? In today's NFL he IS a rarity. How can you argue that? There's nothing racist there.
As for the rest of it ndleo was trying to broach the subject of race without speaking to it directly. Evasive, perhaps, but obviously not racist.
Why does Ichiro sell better than players far better than him. It is a matter of the audience(in this case bidding pool) and their perception of what is valuable. I have nothing against the blacks, whites, yellow, reds and even the pinks! But I hear where Boo is coming from as it is a matter of the market that is buying.
My Auctions
<< <i>
<< <i>"Why do you think that Matt Jones will sell better than a black player if he plays well?"
Because he is white, which will generate inordinate amounts of press, which will in turn make his collectibles more attractive.
I'm not saying I agree this this is the way it 'should' be, only that this is the way i see it playing out. >>
I just don't see it. Maybe 30 years ago yes but I sure don't see this now. >>
That's a completely legitimate viewpoint, and I fully respect that. I'm in no way suggesting that you should agree with me-- I only take issue with the idea that my opinion is morally irresponsible.
This guy isn't going to be better than Rice, T.O, Moss, or even Keyshawn that I can see. He will be good and if he does get to their level I don't see him selling for a penny more than those guys.
Do you honestly see his rookies selling higher than Jerry Rice's?
Minnie Minoso Master and Basic
1967 Topps PSA 8+
1960's Topps run Mega Set
"For me, playing baseball has been like a war and I was defending the uniform I wore, Every time I put on the uniform I respected it like the American flag. I wore it like I was representing every Latin country."--Minnie Minoso
<< <i>Boo i took issue with what i thought i read in ndleos post not yours. I can see that there aren't alot of white WR's in the league but I personally wouldn't pay more for his cards because he is white and I don't see others doing it as well. It just makes no sense. I don't see the fact that the premier black players in the league are not selling well because they are black. I really think that sports is the one pure thing we have left when it comes to collectors and fans not caring what color the player is they are still fans and collectors.
This guy isn't going to be better than Rice, T.O, Moss, or even Keyshawn that I can see. He will be good and if he does get to their level I don't see him selling for a penny more than those guys.
Do you honestly see his rookies selling higher than Jerry Rice's? >>
No- I don't see them ever selling for more than Rice's. But that doesn't mean that his cards won't carry a premium that isn't in accord with his performance on the field (a la Ichiro, or Nomo, as zef pointed out).
I wasn't trying to bait anyone here. It's late and sometimes the board needs different topics. I tried to keep my point discrete because I didn't want it to overtake the topic. I guess I failed and meathook will definitely be surprised.
If he gets big bucks for his card, then he won't care.
No matter how many times I'ld kick his ass for running out the door and attacking other dogs he would continue to do it.
So finally one day I grabbed him by the tail and told him - you're a freakin' frog poodle! One day you're going to get your ass kicked!
The dog looks at me and says: you're some kind of racist bastard! I bet you wouldn't say that if I were a pit bull?!
I think he is a great athlete and should be viewed as such.
Not as the white guy playing WR.
But yes I probably do live in a fantasy world.
But look at the guy below me and think about what his career would have been like if racist aholes hadn't kept him down.
Minnie Minoso Master and Basic
1967 Topps PSA 8+
1960's Topps run Mega Set
"For me, playing baseball has been like a war and I was defending the uniform I wore, Every time I put on the uniform I respected it like the American flag. I wore it like I was representing every Latin country."--Minnie Minoso
I wonder why a QB from Arkansas, converted to WR, drafted at #21, playing for a small market team, is getting the same or more money than Ronnie Brown, the #2 pick playing for the Dolphins.
It must be the shoes.
There are segments of the collector and fan base that will gravitate to a white player.
Jones, assuming he plays well, will be a favorite of those people.
This will only matter for as long as he is playing well. If he's riding the bench or retired, he'll go to common status.
Nick
Reap the whirlwind.
Need to buy something for the wife or girlfriend? Check out Vintage Designer Clothing.
Nick
Reap the whirlwind.
Need to buy something for the wife or girlfriend? Check out Vintage Designer Clothing.
<< <i>Matt Jones cards are selling for more than Jerry Rice now. His auto RCs are going for around $100.
I wonder why a QB from Arkansas, converted to WR, drafted at #21, playing for a small market team, is getting the same or more money than Ronnie Brown, the #2 pick playing for the Dolphins.
It must be the shoes. >>
1. The cards of football rookies always go crazy as soon as they are released. I am talking a little longer term here than his first pre season.
2. Apparently guys "like you" seem to think the same way as you.
3. Jerry Rice didn't have autographed rookie cards.
4. A nice Jerry Rice rookie sells for far more than $100
5.Rice's autos sell for a little more than $100
Minnie Minoso Master and Basic
1967 Topps PSA 8+
1960's Topps run Mega Set
"For me, playing baseball has been like a war and I was defending the uniform I wore, Every time I put on the uniform I respected it like the American flag. I wore it like I was representing every Latin country."--Minnie Minoso
PSA 10 matt jones rc
How much for a PSA 10 Rice Rc?????
Auto rookies count for nothing but since you brought it up
Some black guys autographed rookie cards
Minnie Minoso Master and Basic
1967 Topps PSA 8+
1960's Topps run Mega Set
"For me, playing baseball has been like a war and I was defending the uniform I wore, Every time I put on the uniform I respected it like the American flag. I wore it like I was representing every Latin country."--Minnie Minoso
<< <i>
God you sound like my dog!
Here's what white guys' autographs go for:
as much as 119.49
Here's what black guys' autographs go for:
as much as 9.99
Here's what brown guys' autographs go for:
as much as 560.00
Here's what red guys' autographs go for:
as much as 76.00
The market has spoken.
Nick
Reap the whirlwind.
Need to buy something for the wife or girlfriend? Check out Vintage Designer Clothing.
That being said, right now I think Jones appeal is the fact that the guy is sickening fast for a guy his size (or any size!) and makes plays like the catch he had last night. The big time, espn highlight reel type player is generally going to gain popularity rapidly, there are already some die hard Matt Jones fans out there and the number will continue to grow as his athletic ability is revealed to more and more folks.
Jeff - You asked "Do you honestly see his rookies selling higher than Jerry Rice's?"
And the answer is Yes, some of his rookies do sell for more than Rice RC. It wasn't an indictment on Rice or any other black WR.
You can taint Boopotts and my point as much as you want. We are just stating our observations.
Stingray