<< <i>"Glad to hear you held off for a bit...most everyone here felt the story was bullcrap! Thinking flawed.
The kid is a loser!"
With all due respect, Stone, that sounds a little harsh. I pulled some incredibly immoral scams at that age, and I'm still embarrassed by them. However, like most people I ran with at the time I grew up.
I know all kinds of guys who've stolen 200-500 dollar items from stores as kids, and they've gone on to live decent and honest lives. This isn't all that different from a kid ripping off a few hundred dollars worth of clothes from the mall, and we probably all know someone (either a friend or a friend's kid) who's done something like that. >>
Sorry Boo You're right...don't judge, and one won't be judged.
Harsh? I'ld like to kick his ass! When you do things like this, you're on your way. Where will he be 20 years from now....I could care less.
What he did was reprehensible....altho, due to his age, it may look like the mundane machinations of a healthy imagination....however, it has the blueprint of an act to defraud another individual.
That's how many career criminals probably get their start?
Stone
edit: I'm not venting this on you Boo - the guy pisses me off - and we don't know for sure if this is a 15 yr old - the guy did more than rip Lee off - he took advantage of the good nature of an honest person - the scam runs a bit deeper for me than just swiping something from Target? Hope this clears up how I feel. mike
<< <i>"Glad to hear you held off for a bit...most everyone here felt the story was bullcrap! Thinking flawed.
The kid is a loser!"
With all due respect, Stone, that sounds a little harsh. I pulled some incredibly immoral scams at that age, and I'm still embarrassed by them. However, like most people I ran with at the time I grew up.
I know all kinds of guys who've stolen 200-500 dollar items from stores as kids, and they've gone on to live decent and honest lives. This isn't all that different from a kid ripping off a few hundred dollars worth of clothes from the mall, and we probably all know someone (either a friend or a friend's kid) who's done something like that. >>
Sorry Boo You're right...don't judge, and one won't be judged.
Harsh? I'ld like to kick his ass! When you do things like this, you're on your way. Where will he be 20 years from now....I could care less.
What he did was reprehensible....altho, due to his age, it may look like the mundane machinations of a healthy imagination....however, it has the blueprint of an act to defraud another individual.
That's how many career criminals probably get their start?
Stone >>
Most career criminals-- and I've known more than a few, due to the years I spent toiling in the gambling underground in Denver-- get their start by watching their parents commit crimes. The correlation between this and chronic criminal behavior is overwhelming.
Like I said, I don't think scams like this are a good predictor of future behavior, for the simple reason that I, and most people I know, pulled at least one move like this at some point and we all ended up OK. Amongst my adolescent lowlights:
1) Stealing a buddy's brother's vintage quarter collection to go play MegaZone at the Dairy Mart. 2) Shoplifting a pewter 1/64th scale Jaguar E-Type from a tobacco store (sticker price 150, and that was in '87). 3) Masquarading as a member of the high school marching band and convincing homeowners to give me their returnable cans as part of a ficticious fundraiser for a band trip to Wash. DC. 4) Countless baseball card heists, including (but not limited to) a 50 ct. bin of 86 Donruss Vince Coleman RC's, a 1984 Tiffany Traded Set, and 5 '84 Donruss Mattingly RC's.
So yes-- from the ages 13-15 I had pretty sticky fingers. But, I haven't stolen anything since then, and I'm now probably one of the most honest guys out there. I've had opportunties to walk with sums of cash ranging from 3K to 18K in the past eight years, and it's never crossed my mind to try it. But my past indescretions probably give me a more lenient attitude towards the average scam. In the past year I've had lost 700 in cash, an 800 dollar air compressor, and four $200 bowling balls to theft, and none of these have really gotten my heart rate up. I chalk it up to karmic debt and try to move on.
There's an actual condition called 'adolescent psychosis', which basically amounts to teenagers doing things that they would have never dreamt of doing five years prior, and would never dream of doing again five years later. This is why you see otherwise level headed kids getting wrapped up in these gang-rape deals at parties, or driving 140 mph down two lane highways. Who can explain it? Such, I guess, are the vagaries of the human exprience.
Don't get me wrong-- I would be the first in line to give this kid 200 hrs. of community service. But it wouldnt' surprise me at all to see this kid grow up and live a respectable life.
Boo I edited my post to make sure you know that I'm not venting this on you.
I have done my share of adolescent bullcrap too. We all have.
In no way am I sure what will happen to anyone. That's why you are correct - I think you are taking me too literally on how I feel.
I do NOT have the right to judge a person, but I can judge the act - and it was the act of a loser - that's more what I meant.
Right now, the kid was acting like an a-hole who was taking advantage of someone. And that's where my focus is/was. He needs his ass kicked right now - I'm talking professionally kicked by the courts.
As it goes for career criminals? I'm clueless - what I know his from watching CSI "everywhere"LOL.
BTW, I tremendously respect your candid recount of the past. We all would like to go back in time and rectify of few of our moves.
<< <i>Boo I edited my post to make sure you know that I'm not venting this on you.
I have done my share of adolescent bullcrap too. We all have.
In no way am I sure what will happen to anyone. That's why you are correct - I think you are taking me too literally on how I feel.
I do NOT have the right to judge a person, but I can judge the act - and it was the act of a loser - that's more what I meant.
Right now, the kid was acting like an a-hole who was taking advantage of someone. And that's where my focus is/was. He needs his ass kicked right now - I'm talking professionally kicked by the courts.
As it goes for career criminals? I'm clueless - what I know his from watching CSI "everywhere"LOL.
BTW, I tremendously respect your candid recount of the past. We all would like to go back in time and rectify of few of our moves.
mike >>
Stone--
All very good points, and I agree with you 100%. This kid could definitely use a decent ass kicking-- or at least it wouldn't hurt him any. God knows I could have stood for one.
<< <i>Boo I edited my post to make sure you know that I'm not venting this on you.
I have done my share of adolescent bullcrap too. We all have.
In no way am I sure what will happen to anyone. That's why you are correct - I think you are taking me too literally on how I feel.
I do NOT have the right to judge a person, but I can judge the act - and it was the act of a loser - that's more what I meant.
Right now, the kid was acting like an a-hole who was taking advantage of someone. And that's where my focus is/was. He needs his ass kicked right now - I'm talking professionally kicked by the courts.
As it goes for career criminals? I'm clueless - what I know his from watching CSI "everywhere"LOL.
BTW, I tremendously respect your candid recount of the past. We all would like to go back in time and rectify of few of our moves.
mike >>
Stone--
All very good points, and I agree with you 100%. This kid could definitely use a decent ass kicking-- or at least it wouldn't hurt him any. God knows I could have stood for one. >>
Damn This is the kind of stuff that usually gets discussed - late nite Saturday! I don't work tomorrow - so I guess it's like a Sat. nite for me!
Also, re: my 'karmic debt', I have no less than 8K in gambling markers owed to me by various people in Denver, however since they're all over 5 years old I doubt I could 10 cents on the dollar for them.
My ex business partner still owes me 3500$; and my chances of getting that are essentially nil since he's currently doing a 30-50 yr. stint in the Michigan penitentary system for murdering his girlfriend.
So, I like to think I'm almost 'paid up'. But with interest being the way it is I guess you can never be sure....
Wow, looks like this situation got the fires brewing. At last (and this time I really mean it's over), the situation has come to an end with a fairly surprising conclusion that no one here suggested:
Here goes- This guy has been emailing me all day to try and clear his name. He's also been checking me out, reading this thread, and calling local dealers to find out if the case could be searched. Here is the final conclusion:
- The case was untampered with and just a very bad break, but the buyer truly thought it was resealed!!!
Also found out were the following:
- His ebay account was suspended because someone was using his id in their spoof emails to try and collect payment for phantom items. He emailed his correspondence with ebay. - The person who emailed me saying he was a kid was mistaken. He was thinking of another buyer that renegged on a deal. - He found out from a friend who owns a shop that it would be nearly impossible to reseal the case without making it look like a total hack job. - His identity and business as a contractor and father of 3 are confirmed. - The guy I bought the case from has had it since '97 and I really do trust his stuff. - He is a set builder that concentrates on Bowman Chrome. - We both lost sleep.
The buyer apologized for all the ugliness, and I did the same. As a show of consollation for his bad break, I'm sending him my Lance Berkman. It's not much but at least he got a big RC that's nicely centered. The funny thing is throughout the whole thing, my gut was telling me that he was not trying to scam me and really did think he'd been scammed. So many unfortunate coincidences worked against him, almost like a Seinfeld episode. Well, live and learn guys.
Thats interesting. Sending the Berkman is a nice gesture. Why in the world would this guy think that a case would be resealed just because he had a bad break? I tell you what next time I have a bad break I think i'll start accusing people of scamming me and bring up my son too. That's just sad.
Collecting Minnie Minoso Master and Basic 1967 Topps PSA 8+ 1960's Topps run Mega Set "For me, playing baseball has been like a war and I was defending the uniform I wore, Every time I put on the uniform I respected it like the American flag. I wore it like I was representing every Latin country."--Minnie Minoso
I think it's a matter of perception and circumstances. The circumstances were that he didn't pull any big cards which made him suspicious. That led him to take a good look at the packs and boxes and found maybe a few imperfections in the packaging. At that point he starts remembering some cards had some fingerprints and some packs opened very easily, and it snowballs until the final conclusion- "THEY WERE SEARCHED!!" At that point it's difficult to convince him otherwise because it's nearly possible to prove. He doesn't know me from Adam or the guy I bought it from. I do feel for the guy for such a bad break and I can understand how he could jump to that conclusion. I know when I first got back into the game and bought some vintage unopened material, I would start to speculate those possibilities if a break was particularly bad. Kind of like when you go to a restaurant and something collosal goes wrong (the bad case break), and then you start to remember all of the little things that could have been done better, such as drinks not being refilled immediately and food a couple minutes slow (some packs open easily, fingerprints on cards, slightly loose shrink wrap), and all of the sudden it's the worst meal you ever had ("The packs were searched"). When in reality, if the colossal thing didn't happen, the meal would have been perfectly fine.
I'm glad it worked out. If it had been some kid scamming you, I'd have been shocked. The tone of the communication was just too advanced and subtle for anyone who didn't have years grifting.
The other option is that he *was* scamming, but saw the response here, realized that Stone was going to fly to his house and kick his butt if he didn't back down, and went away. But the "faith in humanity" part of me agrees with you -- I think he's probably a decent guy with more disposable income than most of us who likes collecting cards with his son, and who overreacted to a bad break.
Comments
<< <i>"Glad to hear you held off for a bit...most everyone here felt the story was bullcrap! Thinking flawed.
The kid is a loser!"
With all due respect, Stone, that sounds a little harsh. I pulled some incredibly immoral scams at that age, and I'm still embarrassed by them. However, like most people I ran with at the time I grew up.
I know all kinds of guys who've stolen 200-500 dollar items from stores as kids, and they've gone on to live decent and honest lives. This isn't all that different from a kid ripping off a few hundred dollars worth of clothes from the mall, and we probably all know someone (either a friend or a friend's kid) who's done something like that. >>
Sorry Boo
You're right...don't judge, and one won't be judged.
Harsh? I'ld like to kick his ass! When you do things like this, you're on your way. Where will he be 20 years from now....I could care less.
What he did was reprehensible....altho, due to his age, it may look like the mundane machinations of a healthy imagination....however, it has the blueprint of an act to defraud another individual.
That's how many career criminals probably get their start?
Stone
edit: I'm not venting this on you Boo - the guy pisses me off - and we don't know for sure if this is a 15 yr old - the guy did more than rip Lee off - he took advantage of the good nature of an honest person - the scam runs a bit deeper for me than just swiping something from Target? Hope this clears up how I feel.
mike
<< <i>
<< <i>"Glad to hear you held off for a bit...most everyone here felt the story was bullcrap! Thinking flawed.
The kid is a loser!"
With all due respect, Stone, that sounds a little harsh. I pulled some incredibly immoral scams at that age, and I'm still embarrassed by them. However, like most people I ran with at the time I grew up.
I know all kinds of guys who've stolen 200-500 dollar items from stores as kids, and they've gone on to live decent and honest lives. This isn't all that different from a kid ripping off a few hundred dollars worth of clothes from the mall, and we probably all know someone (either a friend or a friend's kid) who's done something like that. >>
Sorry Boo
You're right...don't judge, and one won't be judged.
Harsh? I'ld like to kick his ass! When you do things like this, you're on your way. Where will he be 20 years from now....I could care less.
What he did was reprehensible....altho, due to his age, it may look like the mundane machinations of a healthy imagination....however, it has the blueprint of an act to defraud another individual.
That's how many career criminals probably get their start?
Stone >>
Most career criminals-- and I've known more than a few, due to the years I spent toiling in the gambling underground in Denver-- get their start by watching their parents commit crimes. The correlation between this and chronic criminal behavior is overwhelming.
Like I said, I don't think scams like this are a good predictor of future behavior, for the simple reason that I, and most people I know, pulled at least one move like this at some point and we all ended up OK. Amongst my adolescent lowlights:
1) Stealing a buddy's brother's vintage quarter collection to go play MegaZone at the Dairy Mart.
2) Shoplifting a pewter 1/64th scale Jaguar E-Type from a tobacco store (sticker price 150, and that was in '87).
3) Masquarading as a member of the high school marching band and convincing homeowners to give me their returnable cans as part of a ficticious fundraiser for a band trip to Wash. DC.
4) Countless baseball card heists, including (but not limited to) a 50 ct. bin of 86 Donruss Vince Coleman RC's, a 1984 Tiffany Traded Set, and 5 '84 Donruss Mattingly RC's.
So yes-- from the ages 13-15 I had pretty sticky fingers. But, I haven't stolen anything since then, and I'm now probably one of the most honest guys out there. I've had opportunties to walk with sums of cash ranging from 3K to 18K in the past eight years, and it's never crossed my mind to try it. But my past indescretions probably give me a more lenient attitude towards the average scam. In the past year I've had lost 700 in cash, an 800 dollar air compressor, and four $200 bowling balls to theft, and none of these have really gotten my heart rate up. I chalk it up to karmic debt and try to move on.
There's an actual condition called 'adolescent psychosis', which basically amounts to teenagers doing things that they would have never dreamt of doing five years prior, and would never dream of doing again five years later. This is why you see otherwise level headed kids getting wrapped up in these gang-rape deals at parties, or driving 140 mph down two lane highways. Who can explain it? Such, I guess, are the vagaries of the human exprience.
Don't get me wrong-- I would be the first in line to give this kid 200 hrs. of community service. But it wouldnt' surprise me at all to see this kid grow up and live a respectable life.
I edited my post to make sure you know that I'm not venting this on you.
I have done my share of adolescent bullcrap too. We all have.
In no way am I sure what will happen to anyone. That's why you are correct - I think you are taking me too literally on how I feel.
I do NOT have the right to judge a person, but I can judge the act - and it was the act of a loser - that's more what I meant.
Right now, the kid was acting like an a-hole who was taking advantage of someone. And that's where my focus is/was. He needs his ass kicked right now - I'm talking professionally kicked by the courts.
As it goes for career criminals? I'm clueless - what I know his from watching CSI "everywhere"LOL.
BTW, I tremendously respect your candid recount of the past. We all would like to go back in time and rectify of few of our moves.
mike
<< <i>Boo
I edited my post to make sure you know that I'm not venting this on you.
I have done my share of adolescent bullcrap too. We all have.
In no way am I sure what will happen to anyone. That's why you are correct - I think you are taking me too literally on how I feel.
I do NOT have the right to judge a person, but I can judge the act - and it was the act of a loser - that's more what I meant.
Right now, the kid was acting like an a-hole who was taking advantage of someone. And that's where my focus is/was. He needs his ass kicked right now - I'm talking professionally kicked by the courts.
As it goes for career criminals? I'm clueless - what I know his from watching CSI "everywhere"LOL.
BTW, I tremendously respect your candid recount of the past. We all would like to go back in time and rectify of few of our moves.
mike >>
Stone--
All very good points, and I agree with you 100%. This kid could definitely use a decent ass kicking-- or at least it wouldn't hurt him any. God knows I could have stood for one.
<< <i>
<< <i>Boo
I edited my post to make sure you know that I'm not venting this on you.
I have done my share of adolescent bullcrap too. We all have.
In no way am I sure what will happen to anyone. That's why you are correct - I think you are taking me too literally on how I feel.
I do NOT have the right to judge a person, but I can judge the act - and it was the act of a loser - that's more what I meant.
Right now, the kid was acting like an a-hole who was taking advantage of someone. And that's where my focus is/was. He needs his ass kicked right now - I'm talking professionally kicked by the courts.
As it goes for career criminals? I'm clueless - what I know his from watching CSI "everywhere"LOL.
BTW, I tremendously respect your candid recount of the past. We all would like to go back in time and rectify of few of our moves.
mike >>
Stone--
All very good points, and I agree with you 100%. This kid could definitely use a decent ass kicking-- or at least it wouldn't hurt him any. God knows I could have stood for one. >>
Damn
This is the kind of stuff that usually gets discussed - late nite Saturday! I don't work tomorrow - so I guess it's like a Sat. nite for me!
Your a good guy Boo.
My ex business partner still owes me 3500$; and my chances of getting that are essentially nil since he's currently doing a 30-50 yr. stint in the Michigan penitentary system for murdering his girlfriend.
So, I like to think I'm almost 'paid up'. But with interest being the way it is I guess you can never be sure....
Here goes- This guy has been emailing me all day to try and clear his name. He's also been checking me out, reading this thread, and calling local dealers to find out if the case could be searched. Here is the final conclusion:
- The case was untampered with and just a very bad break, but the buyer truly thought it was resealed!!!
Also found out were the following:
- His ebay account was suspended because someone was using his id in their spoof emails to try and collect payment for phantom items. He emailed his correspondence with ebay.
- The person who emailed me saying he was a kid was mistaken. He was thinking of another buyer that renegged on a deal.
- He found out from a friend who owns a shop that it would be nearly impossible to reseal the case without making it look like a total hack job.
- His identity and business as a contractor and father of 3 are confirmed.
- The guy I bought the case from has had it since '97 and I really do trust his stuff.
- He is a set builder that concentrates on Bowman Chrome.
- We both lost sleep.
The buyer apologized for all the ugliness, and I did the same. As a show of consollation for his bad break, I'm sending him my Lance Berkman. It's not much but at least he got a big RC that's nicely centered. The funny thing is throughout the whole thing, my gut was telling me that he was not trying to scam me and really did think he'd been scammed. So many unfortunate coincidences worked against him, almost like a Seinfeld episode. Well, live and learn guys.
Lee
Minnie Minoso Master and Basic
1967 Topps PSA 8+
1960's Topps run Mega Set
"For me, playing baseball has been like a war and I was defending the uniform I wore, Every time I put on the uniform I respected it like the American flag. I wore it like I was representing every Latin country."--Minnie Minoso
Lee
I'm glad it worked out. If it had been some kid scamming you, I'd have been shocked. The tone of the communication was just too advanced and subtle for anyone who didn't have years grifting.
The other option is that he *was* scamming, but saw the response here, realized that Stone was going to fly to his house and kick his butt if he didn't back down, and went away.
Morrie
I did think the guy was scamming you - I need to try to be more positive and less incredulous.
One constant throughout this: you - you have shown a very professional, classy attitude and handled this with generosity and sensitivity.
I commend you as a true example of how ebay sales should be run.
mike