<< <i> I believe the 1967 2-O-I SMS is also known as a regular business strike. Apparently that die was used for circulation strike coins after they were done striking the SMS coins-not at all an uncommon practice over the years. >>
I have heard this before and it is puzzling.
How could it be true?
I have to wonder if anyone has found a Double Die (either obverse or reverse) struck by an early die stage in a Special Mint Set and then a business strike coin found in an original bank roll for the same die but from a later die stage?
CONECA (Wiles) keeps track of the coins he examines and it is easy to notice that records for all denominations not only show markers for the different die stages but also when it can be established that the Double Die in question had a die change. Several of the varieties listed have markers for EDS (Early Die State), MDS (Mid Die State), LDS (Late Die State) and VLDS (Very Late Die State).
I’m not sure what records Wexler, Potter or Flynn keep.
I have never noticed any listed CONECA variety which started out as a SMS coin and then later on switched over to a business strike at a later die stage. I have noticed some varieties that started out like a DDO / DDR and later on in another die stage turn to just a DDO after the Reverse die was changed out or vise a versa. I have also noticed varieties that the Double Die had two different opposite die changes over its life time. But again, I’ve never notice die variety going from an SMS to a business strike.
I have seen, and have some varieties that the grading companies have miss attributed as SMS that are clearly business strike varieties and the opposite is true too.
Thanks for resurrecting this thread. Ever since I found the 1965 DDO pictured below I've been on the hunt for clad varieties. Now I have a better reference.
@ Elite CNC Routing & Woodworks on Facebook. Check out my work. Too many positive BST transactions with too many members to list.
<< <i>Are there any photos of the 1966 DDR availible.....I dont have a CPG and it looks much different than the one in "strike it Rich"
On the coin i have the _ _LU__BUS UNUM appear to be letters on top of letters and can be seen without magnification.
On the (obv) the IN G & TR appear to have some doubling (maybe machine doubiling) different than the (rev).
Any thoughts ? i'm in the process of trying to take some close ups of the coin........ then i'll have to try to figure out how to upload them but not being a photograper I dont have high hopes but will give it a try.
I believe this to be a buisness strike. >>
Let's try again-my response didn't attach for some reason.
The reported doubled die reverse for this date (1-R-I) is a business strike-not an SMS-and is what is known as a Class I (rotated) doubled die. It is rotated counter-clockwise and quite strong-it can easily be seen on the peripheral reverse lettering-USA and QUARTER DOLLAR-and is the only doubled die reverse so far reported. >>
Thanks for the help Koynekwest.
It would be nice to get all the varieties in a single list including all of ProofArtWorkonCirc's reverse varieties as well as any stragglers. I'm not sure any minor varieties should be included unless, though, they're scarce.
Been using the list for awhile and really wish there was a book about the clads and the silver and proof Quarters. A friend asked me why I didn't try to cherrypick other series and I explained that the Washington Quarter series has so many Varieties that I wonder sometimes if I can finish the total set. Its true one can buy many of these already slabbed but the real fun is finding these raw. Thanks to Herb(proofartworks) I added this ebay purchase to my collection.........And thanks to cladking for all his help in teaching others....C:US:3160">null1968 S "TYPE F REVERSE" RDV-006 Proof Washington 25C Enjoy tom
I realize that this is an old thread, but, I shudder to think how many of these have slipped through peoples, let alone my own hands since their inception.
oih82w8 = Oh I Hate To Wait _defectus patientia_aka...Dr. Defecto - Curator of RMO's
We tend to overlook these modern coins... especially the quarter series since there have been so many different reverse designs. I believe there are potential treasures out there.... and as the years go by, the values will increase. Cheers, RickO
@shaney777 said:
When you say reverse of 1972 on 1973/1974, do you mean the proof reverse or business reverse? They are different RDVs.
This was a business strike.
I've been selling all my coins and emptying safety deposit boxes. I haven't seen this coin since about 1976 so I'm not certain it's what I believe it is. I'll keep my eyes open for it though.
At the time I put it away I believed it was made on the first day of the year in '73 and the technician neglected to change the reverse die. If this were true there should be thousands of others and I've never seen a second one. It's also possible her ran off a test strike before changing the reverse die but this seems less likely. Usually in industry there is a procedure to follow to work on machinery.
@oih82w8 said:
I realize that this is an old thread, but, I shudder to think how many of these have slipped through peoples, let alone my own hands since their inception.
There's a lot of interesting stuff out there.
I let some good stuff go before I started collecting clad quarters in mid-1972. After that I threw most of them into rolls.
@ricko said:
We tend to overlook these modern coins... especially the quarter series since there have been so many different reverse designs. I believe there are potential treasures out there.... and as the years go by, the values will increase.
In addition to things like the proof varieties there just weren't very many well made coins. Even better made dates are often worn down so much that the few survivors are in only F condition and often (usually) banged up. Everyone thinks there are lots of well made and pristine coins in mint sets but most mint sets have been destroyed and most of the survivors (of many dates) are badly tarnished. Mint set coins are usually well made but this doesn't apply to every date.
There are some nice varieties and in my opinion they aren't all reported. Some varieties like the '72-D t "h" are quite scarce above VF and this will never change because there is no longer a pool from which more can be found. There are no hordes of old clad quarters waiting to be checked and few coins in circulation grade so high. Despite, because of, the high mintages of moderns and clad quarters many of them are scarce now. Nobody cared and the coins were never saved.
@shaney777 said:
When you say reverse of 1972 on 1973/1974, do you mean the proof reverse or business reverse? They are different RDVs.
This was a business strike.
I've been selling all my coins and emptying safety deposit boxes. I haven't seen this coin since about 1976 so I'm not certain it's what I believe it is. I'll keep my eyes open for it though.
At the time I put it away I believed it was made on the first day of the year in '73 and the technician neglected to change the reverse die. If this were true there should be thousands of others and I've never seen a second one. It's also possible her ran off a test strike before changing the reverse die but this seems less likely. Usually in industry there is a procedure to follow to work on machinery.
Clad quarter RDV's are tricky for most people and are also not often looked at.
That means, on the one hand, there could be new varieties like what you describe that are still out there waiting to be found.
On the other hand, it also means that one might very easily make a mistake. I have not seen any 1973/1974 quarters with a Type F reverse (the business strike reverse of 1972), and have not heard of anyone else who has. Until I see an example, I will remain skeptical.
@shaney777 said:
When you say reverse of 1972 on 1973/1974, do you mean the proof reverse or business reverse? They are different RDVs.
This was a business strike.
I've been selling all my coins and emptying safety deposit boxes. I haven't seen this coin since about 1976 so I'm not certain it's what I believe it is. I'll keep my eyes open for it though.
At the time I put it away I believed it was made on the first day of the year in '73 and the technician neglected to change the reverse die. If this were true there should be thousands of others and I've never seen a second one. It's also possible her ran off a test strike before changing the reverse die but this seems less likely. Usually in industry there is a procedure to follow to work on machinery.
Comments
<< <i> I believe the 1967 2-O-I SMS is also known as a regular business strike. Apparently that die was used for circulation strike coins after they were done striking the SMS coins-not at all an uncommon practice over the years. >>
I have heard this before and it is puzzling.
How could it be true?
I have to wonder if anyone has found a Double Die (either obverse or reverse) struck by an early die stage in a Special Mint Set and then a business strike coin found in an original bank roll for the same die but from a later die stage?
CONECA (Wiles) keeps track of the coins he examines and it is easy to notice that records for all denominations not only show markers for the different die stages but also when it can be established that the Double Die in question had a die change. Several of the varieties listed have markers for EDS (Early Die State), MDS (Mid Die State), LDS (Late Die State) and VLDS (Very Late Die State).
I’m not sure what records Wexler, Potter or Flynn keep.
I have never noticed any listed CONECA variety which started out as a SMS coin and then later on switched over to a business strike at a later die stage. I have noticed some varieties that started out like a DDO / DDR and later on in another die stage turn to just a DDO after the Reverse die was changed out or vise a versa. I have also noticed varieties that the Double Die had two different opposite die changes over its life time. But again, I’ve never notice die variety going from an SMS to a business strike.
I have seen, and have some varieties that the grading companies have miss attributed as SMS that are clearly business strike varieties and the opposite is true too.
Too many positive BST transactions with too many members to list.
<< <i>
<< <i>Are there any photos of the 1966 DDR availible.....I dont have a CPG and it looks much different than the one in "strike it Rich"
On the coin i have the _ _LU__BUS UNUM appear to be letters on top of letters and can be seen without magnification.
On the (obv) the IN G & TR appear to have some doubling (maybe machine doubiling) different than the (rev).
Any thoughts ? i'm in the process of trying to take some close ups of the coin........ then i'll have to try to figure out how to upload them
but not being a photograper I dont have high hopes but will give it a try.
I believe this to be a buisness strike. >>
Let's try again-my response didn't attach for some reason.
The reported doubled die reverse for this date (1-R-I) is a business strike-not an SMS-and is what is known as a Class I (rotated) doubled die. It is rotated counter-clockwise and quite strong-it can easily be seen on the peripheral reverse lettering-USA and QUARTER DOLLAR-and is the only doubled die reverse so far reported. >>
Thanks for the help Koynekwest.
It would be nice to get all the varieties in a single list including all of ProofArtWorkonCirc's reverse varieties
as well as any stragglers. I'm not sure any minor varieties should be included unless, though, they're scarce.
I used to be famous now I just collect coins.
Link to My Registry Set.
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/quarters/washington-quarters-specialty-sets/washington-quarters-complete-variety-set-circulation-strikes-1932-1964/publishedset/78469
Varieties Are The Spice Of LIFE and Thanks to Those who teach us what to search For.
When you say reverse of 1972 on 1973/1974, do you mean the proof reverse or business reverse? They are different RDVs.
Error Ref editor
I realize that this is an old thread, but, I shudder to think how many of these have slipped through peoples, let alone my own hands since their inception.
BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug, edwardjulio, Coinnmore...
We tend to overlook these modern coins... especially the quarter series since there have been so many different reverse designs. I believe there are potential treasures out there.... and as the years go by, the values will increase. Cheers, RickO
I believe there are potential treasures out there.... and as the years go by, the values will increase. Cheers, RickO
I only hope you're right RickO. I hope you're right.
1968s DDR PF 66
"Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!
--- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.I used to have all of the clad major doubled dies. Overall, with a few exceptions, these seem to be much tougher than their silver counterparts.
This was a business strike.
I've been selling all my coins and emptying safety deposit boxes. I haven't seen this coin since about 1976 so I'm not certain it's what I believe it is. I'll keep my eyes open for it though.
At the time I put it away I believed it was made on the first day of the year in '73 and the technician neglected to change the reverse die. If this were true there should be thousands of others and I've never seen a second one. It's also possible her ran off a test strike before changing the reverse die but this seems less likely. Usually in industry there is a procedure to follow to work on machinery.
There's a lot of interesting stuff out there.
I let some good stuff go before I started collecting clad quarters in mid-1972. After that I threw most of them into rolls.
In addition to things like the proof varieties there just weren't very many well made coins. Even better made dates are often worn down so much that the few survivors are in only F condition and often (usually) banged up. Everyone thinks there are lots of well made and pristine coins in mint sets but most mint sets have been destroyed and most of the survivors (of many dates) are badly tarnished. Mint set coins are usually well made but this doesn't apply to every date.
There are some nice varieties and in my opinion they aren't all reported. Some varieties like the '72-D t "h" are quite scarce above VF and this will never change because there is no longer a pool from which more can be found. There are no hordes of old clad quarters waiting to be checked and few coins in circulation grade so high. Despite, because of, the high mintages of moderns and clad quarters many of them are scarce now. Nobody cared and the coins were never saved.
Clad quarter RDV's are tricky for most people and are also not often looked at.
That means, on the one hand, there could be new varieties like what you describe that are still out there waiting to be found.
On the other hand, it also means that one might very easily make a mistake. I have not seen any 1973/1974 quarters with a Type F reverse (the business strike reverse of 1972), and have not heard of anyone else who has. Until I see an example, I will remain skeptical.
Thank you!
Error Ref editor
No one has yet mentioned the 1965 DDR, which is very rare, in fact I am aware of only one.
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.