Any 3CN experts out there?

Prethen

I just ordered a raw 1883 3CN in VF/XF from JJ Teaparty. I do like Gail and the company and I trust their descriptions, but this coin (as would 1884, 1885, and 1887) make me a bit nervous as to being a circulated proof and not a business strike. The business strikes are more (sometimes much, much more) costly than a proof so it's imperative to validate it's a business strike.

I noticed that neither PCGS nor NGC have any 1883 3CN (MS) below a grade a 40. Am I already in trouble with this coin as far as being 100% authenticatable?

I was fortunate enough to get an 1887 in Choice AU authenticated recently in my collection, but I kept it raw. I realize that when I try to sell, I'll have the same problem trying to convince the buyer but if I get 100% confidence in its strike status I don't mind worrying about a (far?) future sale.

For those that are interested (from memory):
1883 3CN mintages: 4,000 business strikes and 6,600+ proofs (less than 11,000 altogether)
1887 3CN mintages: 5,000 business strikes and 2,900+ proofs (less than 8,000 altogether!)

stephunter

Seems like a very undervalued series. Today I was just considering the 1880 3cn vs. an 1880 shield nickel (just brought about $57,000 in MS65 at Heritage). It seems that size has always been an issue with the three cent pieces.

scher

I know a little about this as I used to collect this series pretty agressively..Many of this series and this particular date have been offered as MS and are not..lots of proofs that are made to look ms one can be easily fooled..I have bought a couple that were raw even one out of a "stacks" sale that couldnt make it into an MS holder..so just be aware..all that said the company selling you the coin has been around and best as i know have a solid reutation..If you look in the pcgs registry you will see a nice example under "alltime finest set" just pull up the set and ther is a photo of the 1883..its the only MS 67 of the date, I acquired the coin from JIm Swann and Legend bought the coin and the rest of the set this past feb. at a heritage auction..
Bruce Scher

Chazpear

By no means an expert, but have been hunting for an MS 1883 for quite some time.

I have run across a couple in the past and even purchased one early on that everyone involved swears was a business strike, only to be authenticated as a proof. The latest one that I am in the process of authenticating (my avatar). Has as far as the diagnostics goes proof vs. business strike, rounded edge, light clash marks on observe and reverse the best example that I have run across. I believe that it really is a business strike, or course I has felt that way about a couple of other too.

No easy task.

Prethen

By any chance, could you provide me with specific diagnostics to look for?

Mark

Prethan:

I am at work and so do not have access to it, but there is a book, The Ultimate Guide to the U.S. Three Cent Nickel, that has almost every die combination for both PR and MS 3CNs. The book is used is huge and is obviously a labor of love. (I just wish love could have had a slightly better writing style...) The book is also expensive--$175. But if you are a serious collector of 3 CNs, I suspect it's a good book to have around. If you are interested, pm me and when I get home I can give you information about where to buy the book.

Mark

Chazpear

Here are some of the diagnostics that I have run across in many-a-search-of-the-internet. Off the top of my head since I am at work. The easiest one (IMO) is the edge of the coin.

Proof has a square edge
Business strike has a much more rounded edge

This one makes sense and certainly easier to spot un-holdered

Proof dentils are more squared.
Business strike has a much more rounded.

This I have a problem with for a couple of reasons. Most proofs were only stuck once, not twice, but not all. Makes it easy right. Some of the earlier business strikes had nice cleaned dies, but then again there were more proofs then business strikes in 1883.

Proofs supposedly have not die clashes.
Business strikes commonly have die clashes.

IMO, another subjective diagnostic.

Proofs have much smoother surfaces.
Business strikes (because of die clashes) are not as smooth. Also planchet prep.

That is the quick ones off the top of my head.

Also, as Mark mentioned the book with all the die varieties. I think I got sticker shock when I saw the price and couldn't justify it for just the one year I was looking for. However, I have gotten more and more interested in the series since I started this and it certainly is a very underappreciated/undervalued series.

Prethen

Thanks for those diagnostics. Largely, those are the same ones I've been familiar with but it's nice to see someone else put it to black and white. I think the edge is usually the most "damning" evidence one way or the other as far as I understand it. Also, if there are die breaks, it's likely to be a business strike. That's the only other one I know of.

I agree with you on the book. It seems way too expensive for the amount of time and information I need from it. I haven't joined the ANA yet but plan to in the next month or so and I'll request that book to borrow it for awhile from their library. I guess if I really get desparate I can drive 1 hour down to Colorado Springs and go directly to their library for myself.