Future Baseball HOF(link to an article you might wanna read)

donnnster

I can recall many posts talking about who folks on this board think are HOF worthy. Well I stumbled upon this article on espn.com:
LINK
The writer will have a followup to this arcticle in the future with 20 more players that are more borderline HOF worthy. I was wondering what your take on this article is. Enjoy the reading!

MajorDanby

i dont think miguel cabrera belongs on that list. MAYBE on the 21-40 list, but definitely not on the 1-20 list.

donnnster

yeh I agree with ya major that its a bit too early to put cabrera on that list. He definitely has youth on his side but he hasn't strung together enough good years to be ranked so high in my opinion.

denwd1

pretty good list,i tend to like it when players i watched are honored as hall of famers,throw open those doors......where's frank thomas? he and bagwell are very close statistically, and thomas,if we can remember 12 years ago was considered the best hitter in baseball with 2 MVP'S .

donnnster

my guess is thomas will be on that 21-40 list that the author is working on which we will see sooner or later. I would think palmeiro would be on that list too.

DeutscherGeist

Strange there was comment on McGwire, but not other retirees. I think he missed some names. I will be surprised to see what he has on 21-40.

He could have mentioned David Cone if he mentioned Mussina....

MajorDanby

<< <i>He could have mentioned David Cone if he mentioned Mussina.... >>



I believe he is only covering players who are currently on a big league roster as of today.

megatron

<< <i>I can recall many posts talking about who folks on this board think are HOF worthy. Well I stumbled upon this article on espn.com:
<a class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=schoenfield/050728&num=0" target=blank>LINK</A>
The writer will have a followup to this arcticle in the future with 20 more players that are more borderline HOF worthy. I was wondering what your take on this article is. Enjoy the reading! >>



Thanks for the link, but the list is stoopid!!! . First, Randy Johnson is at no. 6 behind Glavine of all people? Look at how dominating Johnson was compared to how dominating Glavine was at their respective peaks, and you will see that Johnson is an easy win over Glavine.

Jeter above ARod? C'mon....that is a complete joke.

Ken Griffey Jr. at no. 13? Show the guy some respect....he should be much higher than 13 just given how dominating he was at his peak.

Pujols is great, but no. 10? C'mon. Didn't he just start playing 4 years ago? What if he falls off the face of the earth tomorrow? Consistency counts.

Cabrera...see Pujols.

Sosa. Per the author: "Sosa will be an easy first-ballot Hall of Famer". Yes, he is a first ballot hall of famer, but not as easy as you think. Other than his 1998-2001 stretch, his numbers are not that great.

Mike Piazza at no. 17? This author is on drugs and affected by availability bias given Piazza's play this year. This guy is the greatest offensive catcher of all time and deserves higher even though his time is running out.

Ivan Rodriguez - great player and HOF'er, but at no. 18? C'mon. Did this guy go on a diet along with Kirstie Alley? Where is he this year?

Craig Biggio at no. 19? C'mon. Great underrated player and a future HOF'er, but there are others that surpass him on the list.

And of course, if Raffy isn't on the list, then the author is an idiot. Add to the fact that he excluded Todd Helton (who is having an off year), and you can say that the list is useless.

Can't wait until tomorrow when he states that Schilling, Dontrelle Willis, Johnny Damon, Derek Lee, Alfonso Soriano, and Chris Carpenter all deserve to be in the HOF.

denwd1

i didn't think he was ranking them in order. i think these were just the top 20.....no order intended.

CardsFan

<< <i> i didn't think he was ranking them in order. i think these were just the top 20.....no order intended. >>



I agree he has Smoltz in the top 5 but says that he's not a for sure HOFer.

WinPitcher

And of course, if Raffy isn't on the list, then the author is an idiot.


very interesting

Axtell

<< <i>
And of course, if Raffy isn't on the list, then the author is an idiot. Add to the fact that he excluded Todd Helton (who is having an off year), and you can say that the list is useless.

Can't wait until tomorrow when he states that Schilling, Dontrelle Willis, Johnny Damon, Derek Lee, Alfonso Soriano, and Chris Carpenter all deserve to be in the HOF. >>



Raffy doesn't belong in the hall...but then that's a whole other topic that's been debated to death. I suspect that Raffy's induction won't be quite the slam dunk that some who idolize the numbers think he will be.

And to me, I don't see anyone on that list who I disagree with. The young guys still have careers to fulfill, but so far, so good.

Schilling, not a HoFer. Great gamer, guts, but he won't make the hall. The others? Who knows. I suspect they are in the 21-40 group that he mentioned.

frankhardy

I also don't think the list was ranked in order. I actually agreed with most of the article. Here are my thoughts.

Glavine - not a lock, but will probably get in.

Smoltz - also not a lock; 50-50 shot.

Cabrera - if he is then so should Rickie Weeks! no way Cabrera should be on the list.

Biggio - I used to think no way - since he is starting to get close to 3000 hits, I am starting to believe.



"9. Alex Rodriguez
Baseball loves its history. Consider the Top 10 pantheon immortals: Ruth, Bonds, Mays, Aaron, Williams, Cobb, Musial, Gehrig, DiMaggio and Mantle. Bonds is the only player from the last 30 years to crack the list. Does A-Rod add his name? I'm not 100 percent sure that will happen.

10. Albert Pujols
I do predict, however, that Pujols will crack it."


VERY INTERESTING! I believe ARod will crack the top ten.

To early to tell for Pujols, even though he is off to the greatest start EVER!

WinPitcher

And the beat goes on.....................

SD

Axtell

Part 2 was posted today (21-40):

Text

CardsFan

Quite a few intersting picks. I was surprised he put Prior in, that's a tough call right now on a guy who hasn't proven he can stay healthy. I dissagree with the Schilling call, and I think Pedro should have been in the top 20 or "lock" page.

donnnster

Thanx for posting the link for part2 Axtell. Cardsfan, I too believe pedro should be in the top tier. He may not get to that magic 300 win number, but from 1997 to 2003 he was pretty dominant(minus his injury plagued year in 2001). Also pitching back in the national league now will help him rack up better numbers for the next few years(no DH to deal with). He should also obtain his 3000K next season if he stays healthy.

WinPitcher

Interesting article, Schilling is in line for 3000 ks. he just may become the first player to achieve that goal and possibly not make the HOF, but i doubt it. as for Palmiero, it is a no brainer. HOF all the way.

SD

Gemmy10

If Bige gets 3,000 hits he is a shoe-in and gets the Gemmy Stamp of Approval even though he is not a Yankee. ROFL.

Does anybody think there is an over abundance of players on his list compared to 1950 thru 1979? It's the Roid Droid era.

WinPitcher

I agree gemmy, biggio looks like a lock as well. very productive hard nosed player. comes ready to play.

as for this era having the most names it does have the most teams too.

the 55 season (the yr the author used) had the most pct wise if I read it correctly. funny, but that era(50's) also was a 'power" era .featuring guys like williams, mays, mantle, aaron, banks, matthews, killebrew and so on and so on.

SD

Axtell

I don't think that 500 home runs will be an automatic lock that it once was. If you hit home runs, but never were the premier home run threat, and barely eclipsed 500, I don't think that you'll be an automatic lock.

300 wins will always be an automatic. Averaging 15 wins a season over 20 years is amazing, especially in today's era of pitching specialists and 'no-lead-is-safe' game that's being played.

Gemmy10

<< I don't think that 500 home runs will be an automatic lock that it once was.>>



Oh my gawd...hell has frozen over!!!!

DeutscherGeist

He claims to be talking about current players, but he also has McGwire on the list, who is retired. He needs to be consistent with what he says.

This is why I fault him for not mentioning David Cone if he talks about Kevin Brown and Mike Mussina. Cone may not be a HOF, but he was one of the best, so mentioning him with K Brown would have been appropriate.

I don't get his argument about Schilling. Just because he has below 200 wins, he does not make it? That is so superficial. He is so close now that he will get over the hump just because, but Schilling had a career that included dominance. He was in the shadows of Johnson, but the BIG UNIT is probably the top 5 best all time pitcher.

WinPitcher

Giest I agree, Schilling does have a shot. will he make it? i dunno. 3000 k's is impressive. But all one has to do is look at bert blyleven's 3700 k's and he is not in so who knows.

sd

donnnster

I wonder how much post season performance counts for when determing HOF worthiness. Schilling has pitched in 4 different years of postseason and here are his numbers-

1993 he was 1-1 with a 2.59 ERA (31.1 innings pitched)
2001 he was 4-0 with a 1.12 ERA (48.1 innings pitched)
2002 0-0 with a 1.29 ERA (7 innings pitched)
2004 3-1 with 3.57 ERA(22.2 innings)

Most impressive were his world series wins with arizona and boston where he was:
2001 1-0 with 1.69ERA and started 3 world series games
2004 1-0 with 0.00ERA and started 1 world series game(due to injury)

Im still on the fence with schilling going into the HOF(based on his numbers) but wonder if his post season performance will cement his spot in the HOF.

DeutscherGeist

Win Pitcher, I was not even considering his 3000Ks, but that does put him in an exclusive group. I think the fact he was a dominant pitcher several times in his career says enough. The fact he got those magic numbers like 300 K in one season and a WS MVP all just push him above the threshold. Once he gets above 200 wins, it will make more people comfortable.

The main thing is that a pitcher must distinguish himself from his peers in obvious ways. Does Schilling belong in the class with Johnson, Martinez, Glavine, Smoltz, Maddux and Clemens? Does he clearly pull himself away from the borderline HOFers such as Hershiser, Cone, Venezuela, K Brown, Saberhagen, Gooden, Mussina, Wells.....

Blyleven has a lot of Ks and he was a dominant pitcher. He ranked similar to Mussina in terms of important pitching categories in a season. So if Mussina should get in, Blyleven needs to as well. And if Mussina makes it in, then Cone and Brown deserve it also. See, one has to be careful about letting a pitcher in. He has to be in a class by himself, or just not share it with many. Few pitchers can touch what Clemens and Johnson have done in winning CY Young, ERA titles, K's ......

Axtell

I would rather have players with several years of dominance (winning or top 3 MVP/CY young) than a mediocre player who hung around for 20 years.

To me, the hall should be about sustained greatness. Not a flash in the pan, either, and definitely not someone who never excells.

Geist, you argument is a valid one. Yes, if a pitcher doesn't attain 200 wins, he likely won't make it (which is as ridiculous as someone getting in because they stuck it out forever trying to accumulate numbers).

It's a double-edged sword; HoF voters (and fans in general) are so stuck on 'milestones' and round numbers that a good number of dominant athletes get left out.