Junior and A-Rod and Big Unit together again?
jrdolan
Posts: 2,549 ✭✭
The Yankees have decided that their All-Star Team needs some more star power, so they're looking at adding Griffey. Like that will fix the problem (which is pitching). But that's George for you. When the chips are down, buy another $17 million hitter.
But wouldn't that be something -- Junior and A-Rod and Randy Johnson back on the same team?
But wouldn't that be something -- Junior and A-Rod and Randy Johnson back on the same team?
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Offense isn't the problem with the Yankees.
GO MARLINS! Home of the best fans in baseball!!
<< <i>If the Yankees were going to spend $17 million more on salary this year, I can pretty much guarantee you that it won't be for a 35 year old oft-injured Griffey. They have more pressing needs, namely middle relief and starting pitching.
Offense isn't the problem with the Yankees. >>
Since when does queen george make good baseball decisions?
There are few to none pitchers available, and who really wants to deal with the yankees to make them better? They have nothing left in the tank to deal, and everyone knows it. George sure as heck won't be seen as not making any moves, so he'll try to do anything to make it look like he's trying to make his team better.
It will be interesting to see the yankees saddle themselves up with another veteran, and another massive contract.
The yankees are going to move kevin brown? hah to who? Who wants a pitcher scheduled to make $18 million who (a) can't find the strike zone and (b) has an ERA approaching 7? The yankees have turned into the Knicks...except the yankees can keep spending and spending and spending to try to cover up their mistakes.
That being said, I just find it rather amusing to see the Yankee haters froth at the mouth over the Yankees being the Yankees. I guess that's what fans of last place teams with $500 million brand new state of the art stadiums do when THEIR owners give up on them.
GO MARLINS! Home of the best fans in baseball!!
I find it ridiculous that $200 million isn't enough for george. That he needs to spend another $17 million on a player who isn't going to help his team. That he's more intent on keeping the appearance that the yankees are in contention than actually doing something about it.
Actually I love it. I think the more and more he spends, the faster a salary cap will become a reality.
And how can any fan of the game (except those outside yankeeville) think that the yankees spending like this could possibly be good for the game?
The Yankees are 2.5 games behind Boston. The Yankees will be playing meaningful games the rest of the way and have as good a chance at winning the World Series as anybody, but I can see how you're still bitter about losing all your best players and that's clouded your judgment.
Heck, if my sorry excuse for a team suckered the city into paying for a new stadium and then watched as homegrown talent bolted once they became free agents, I'd be bitter too.
Or is the hostility from 2001, when your Mariners won all those games and got promptly tossed down a flight of stairs by the Yankees?
GO MARLINS! Home of the best fans in baseball!!
<< <i>I don't think anyone is 'frothing' at the mouth as you so eloquently claim.
I find it ridiculous that $200 million isn't enough for george. That he needs to spend another $17 million on a player who isn't going to help his team. That he's more intent on keeping the appearance that the yankees are in contention than actually doing something about it.
Actually I love it. I think the more and more he spends, the faster a salary cap will become a reality.
And how can any fan of the game (except those outside yankeeville) think that the yankees spending like this could possibly be good for the game? >>
I never said it was good for the game. Thus far, as a Yankee fan, EVERY indication is that the Yanks are NOT looking to add more payroll this upcoming trade deadline. The RUMORS about Griffey going to New York are figments of the imagination of some bored sports writers. Anyone with half a brain would tell you that the Yanks need middle relief and perhaps a starting pitcher, should Pavano or Wang miss significant time down the stretch. Griffey going to NY? Why not make up the rumor that Adrian Beltre is going to Yanks? It would make about as much sense!
GO MARLINS! Home of the best fans in baseball!!
But that doesn't mean we can't bat it around. That's what is great about being a fan!
I agree with DaBigHurt and others. Let's not bash the Yankees just because Steinbrenner thinks the only "strategy" involved in baseball is deciding how large to write the check. Let's pick on, let's see now, Tampa Bay. The Yankees payroll would buy their team 6 times over, but they do have possibly the worst manager in baseball.
Considering Griffey is a a 10 and 5 guy he will have to consent to any trade. That being said, if he doesn't want to play for the Yankees he won't.
My Auctions
<< <i>
I agree with DaBigHurt and others. Let's not bash the Yankees just because Steinbrenner thinks the only "strategy" involved in baseball is deciding how large to write the check. Let's pick on, let's see now, Tampa Bay. The Yankees payroll would buy their team 6 times over, but they do have possibly the worst manager in baseball. >>
The worst manager in baseball? You really can't be serious.
As far as TB's payroll goes, as I mentioned, what is their possible motivation for spending millions and millions and millions more? So they can finish third with a .500 record instead of fourth or fifth with a .400 record?
You play in a division with NY and Boston, unless you are preparing to spend $125 million, you aren't going to compete.
Yes, the Orioles were tough the first half, but we've all seen them fall back into the pack since then.
Team owners have a financial responsibility to do what's best businesswise.
In a perfect world, I would love to see the Yanks develop more players and keep a lower payroll, but unfortunately, you can't do that in New York. The Yanks make wayyyyy too much money to go through rebuilding years. Any Yankee fan worth their salt would tell you that watching Robinson Cano and Wang blossom this year has been a joy. For so long, the Yankees have traded away prospect after prospect for immediate help. This year, because even NY has a limit on how much they can spend, George is recognizing that compiling a team with big name free agents is not the solution.
My hope is that the Yanks get Juan Pierre to replace Bernie. There are rumors that he may be available and he will be a free agent at the end of this year, so who knows.
GO MARLINS! Home of the best fans in baseball!!
<< <i>
Or is the hostility from 2001, when your Mariners won all those games and got promptly tossed down a flight of stairs by the Yankees?
What about the hostility of the Yanks blowing a 2-0 lead to the M's in 95? That still stings huh? Is that why you feel the 2001 season by the M's was so sweet for yanks?
It's tough to take the words of a Yankee 'fan' and see any objectivity in it. I'm wondering how many years the yankees will go through without winning a world series before there's rioting in the streets? Yankee fans are like Laker fans - they feel they are entitled to winning it all every year, then get mad when teams don't just roll over and let them have their ring.
I would think that this years horrific showing by the Yanks (and yes, considering the $200 million payroll, barely above .500 is horrific) would have yankee fans calling for change. Not Torre change, but change in the way the team is managed. It's obvious that Cashman no longer makes decisions, that george is running everything again. He's making the same mistakes that led the yankees into the toliet for a decade.
Gosh...I can't quite remember.
To paraphrase Patrick Roy, "I can't hear you, I've got 26 championship rings in my ears."
GO MARLINS! Home of the best fans in baseball!!
<< <i>
To paraphrase Patrick Roy, "I can't hear you, I've got 26 championship rings in my ears."
See, typical yankee 'fan'. A fan of the rings, not of the team. You and Spammy would be best friends.
Hmm..I wonder if Ichiro would be interested in coming to New York...
GO MARLINS! Home of the best fans in baseball!!
<< <i>So if you're a Yankee fan who is proud of his team's history, that's somehow wrong?
Hmm..I wonder if Ichiro would be interested in coming to New York >>
Because the typical yankee fan (and I would put you in that mix) aren't a fan of the team, you're a fan of the fact they've purchased 26 world series rings.
You aren't proud of the yankees...you're proud of the rings....huge difference.
And Ichiro to NY? Keep holding your breath. He'll retire a Mariner.
And the more you post, the more I know you and spammy would be great friends. You're only interested in the yankee WS rings, and you post the same emoticon spam when you think you're being funny.
Come on! Proud of the rings?
That's just rhetorical "come back" for the yankee haters!
These guys are fans of the game, fans of the yanks.
I was a big Yank fan in the late 70s while in school in NYC - I can still give you the entire starting lineup for the 78 team. I lived in the bleachers - it was cheap.
But thanx for bringing up the Ring/penis envy!
mike
SD
<< <i>Ax
Come on! Proud of the rings?
That's just rhetorical "come back" for the yankee haters!
These guys are fans of the game, fans of the yanks.
I was a big Yank fan in the late 70s while in school in NYC - I can still give you the entire starting lineup for the 78 team. I lived in the bleachers - it was cheap.
But thanx for bringing up the Ring/penis envy!
mike >>
As much as yankee 'fans' think fans of other teams are envious of the rings, well that simply isn't the case. Most fans are not fans of the team, they are only fans of the yankees because of their past success. You can tell who they are because of how quickly they bring up their 26 world series titles.
I am envious of the trophies the Patriots have in NE. The Bucs have 1/3 of the trophies the Pats do, and I am truly envious of that. The Pats play the game with selflessness and a true team spirit. The have dominated in an era of forced parity (via salary cap) and with constant player turnover (free agency, injury, etc). Yes, I am truly envious of the trophies the Patriots have.
I am not at all envious of the world series rings the yankees have. They have bought their way through obscene spending to postseason chances, raided other teams cupboards, and all in all not exhibitied team cohesiveness.
So don't sit there and tell me I hate the yankees simply because I envy their world series rings. I don't.
You're getting too involved. Others don't even care.
About the rings - they bring that up because of people like you. The issue of championships is only part of the equation.
People went to games and supported the Yanks when they were losing - they didn't just wither and die.
The Yanks had a drought that lasted from around 1980 till Torre took over the team - 14 seasons and still loyal fans.
It seems the yankee haters are making more out of the rings than the fans?
mike
<< <i>Ax
You're getting too involved. Others don't even care.
About the rings - they bring that up because of people like you. The issue of championships is only part of the equation.
People went to games and supported the Yanks when they were losing - they didn't just wither and die.
The Yanks had a drought that lasted from around 1980 till Torre took over the team - 14 seasons and still loyal fans.
It seems the yankee haters are making more out of the rings than the fans?
mike >>
People like me? People who see how clearly bad for the game Yankee spending is?
Rings are typically brought up as a 'hey my team is best!' type of trump card...and I know stone and spammy are both quite fond of playing it.
And they had loyal fans?
Starting in 1981 (rank out of 14 teams);
1st
3rd
3rd
6th
4th
4th
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3nd
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11th
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Yes there will always be the core group of fans. But there is a larger, bigger base of 'fans' who go when they win, and stay away when they lose.
clearly bad yankee spending is? teams salvitate at the prospect of the Yankees coming to there town.
how were they 7th in 1995? didnt they earn the wild card that yr?
sd
<< <i> But there is a larger, bigger base of 'fans' who go when they win, and stay away when they lose. >>
GO MARLINS! Home of the best fans in baseball!!
<< <i>those 8th 9th and two 11 place finishes was when George was banned from baseball I think.
sd >>
George has been banned from baseball twice, first for making illegal contributions and obstruction of justice, and second, for paying a gambler for information on Dave Winfield after Winfield sued george for failing to pay him $300k of his contract.
How he manages to weasel back into baseball time and again is a testament to the 'dollar is king' mentality.
Worse yet, steinbrenner will likely be inducted into the hall of fame as well (which would be a real black eye for baseball).
how were they 7th in 1995? didnt they earn the wild card that yr?
can you answer that? and after that, answer how you state that the AL had a DH beetween 1924 and 1941 in the other thread.
thanks
<< <i>
<< <i>those 8th 9th and two 11 place finishes was when George was banned from baseball I think.
sd >>
George has been banned from baseball twice, first for making illegal contributions and obstruction of justice, and second, for paying a gambler for information on Dave Winfield after Winfield sued george for failing to pay him $300k of his contract.
How he manages to weasel back into baseball time and again is a testament to the 'dollar is king' mentality.
Worse yet, steinbrenner will likely be inducted into the hall of fame as well (which would be a real black eye for baseball). >>
GO MARLINS! Home of the best fans in baseball!!
<< <i>Yes there will always be the core group of fans. But there is a larger, bigger base of 'fans' who go when they win, and stay away when they lose. >>
Ax
I'm a Braves fan - started in 1990 when stationed at Ft. Gordon, GA - stayed with them due to the Superstation.
Your statement ABOVE just defined EVERY team in EVERY city - there are always the core and then the Johnny Come Lately's - that's just plain ole life in the sports world.
And finally, I'm, again, just having fun here - hope your head doesn't explode or anything. As I said before, if major league baseball closed it's doors for a bit, I would just start watching my favorite SPORT,
Golf!
<< <i>
Your statement ABOVE just defined EVERY team in EVERY city - there are always the core and then the Johnny Come Lately's - that's just plain ole life in the sports world.
>>
Really? How often is Fenway sold out? The Sacramento Kings have sold out their home court for what, 10 years straight?
And my head explode? Nah, I'd actually have to care in order to get that worked up.
Don't mistake a passionate, lengthy post as 'irrational' or 'head about to explode'. If I am forceful with my context, it's only because context translates so poorly over the internet (that is why communication via email is so impersonal). I am an animated speaker...so when I emphasize my posts with CAPS or bold it's simply to highlight a point I would normally do with voice inflection or hand movements.
I have read this entire thread through and combined with the other thread floating around these boards I have ya pegged !
You sound like a broken record, NO DIFFERENT than any other envious Yankee hater I have come across in the last 30 years. Not one ounce different. You all have the same tired arguements, and unfortunatley for you guys, all are fans of the same old tired teams you root for.
green green green with envy
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
I didn't choose my baseball or football teams simply because they were the most successful at the time I started enjoying sports (which I feel A LOT of yankee fans have done).
Like I said in an earlier post, I am not envious of a team that simply buys championships. If you spend the most money, and have the best players, more often than not you are going to achieve ultimate success (and this is evidenced by the overwhelming number of WS rings the yanks have to any other team).
What I can respect and be envious of are teams like Patriots. 3 out of 4 super bowls in this parity era is incredible.
Baseball is not like football in that, as much as it's talked about, not every team has a chance. With the extreme differences in team revenue, there are some teams that are at a distinct disadvantage to others. More money = more opportunities to cover up bad moves (and how many bad moves have the yankees made in the past 5 years? You've got a roster full of em right now!)
No, I am not envious of the yankees. I am not envious of their world titles. Would I like the Mariners to win it all? Of course. And like I stated above, I don't like a team simply because of their past successes. Many, MANY yankees fans do.
Sure the Yanks have made bad moves the past few years. So what, go worry about your own team. But probably, nothing to talk about there
All this talk from you typical predictable Yankee haters when as recent as THIS PAST WEEK they were in first place. Amazi9ng I tell ya! If they the Yankees are not 20 games up at this point in the season both Yankee fans and Yankee haters get excited
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
<< <i>People went to games and supported the Yanks when they were losing - they didn't just wither and die. >>
Mike, I must disagree with you here strongly. Yankee fans did not support the team at all when they were a bloated payroll heavy team filled with aging veterans and broken down players (hey, just like now!). Only because of their "tradition" and arrogance do many people like following this team. When the chips were down, you could always find empty seats in the Bronx. Try finding an empty seat in Fenway in recent memory - it's a much tougher task. Red Sox fans tend to be diehard, and support the team win or lose, heck we just experienced our first ring in most of our lifetimes! While their are certainly bandwagon fans of every team, they sure do seem to be growing them in droves in New York.
And, speaking of arrogance, that is perhaps the main reason there is so much anti-Yankee sentiment. Try and watch a game on their "YES" channel, and unless you are drinking the same kool aid as their butt-kissing announcers, you simply will go nuts. Every five minutes - we hear about the greatest franchise in the history of the free world, and how they are so "proud" and how far ahead of any other team in pro sports they are. No humility whatsoever, even as people acknowledge that much of the great "tradition" was obtained by simply spending many times more than the other teams. Because they can. Gee - how impressive.
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
I was saying Piniella was possibly the worst manager, not Torre. And I concede that "worst" might be overstating it a bit, though at the moment I can't nominate a replacement. Makes the strangest managerial decisions, perhaps? Though some say he has been piling it on lately in an effort to get fired, so he can escape his contract but still get paid.
As for Junior not caring much for the Yankees, well, many others have said so yet signed on the dotted line for a final chance at a ring in their declining years. I think this deal won't happen for reasons that others have stated, but not because of that clubhouse thing when he was a boy.
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
<< <i>ctsox, hold on now. How many games did the young Roger Clemens pitch to NOBODY in Fenway after their collapse to the Mets? You guys are just as fickle as Yankee fans. Please..... >>
I like how you completely bypass ct's valid points about the arrogance of the typical yankee fan.
And I tried listening to a game on the radio when they played the mariners last - unlistenable! Every 2 minutes is some advertisement whether it's a call to bullpen or the official water of the yankees or the official toliet paper of the yankees...no wonder they have so much revenue!
Or disputing buying so many of the world championships? Like I said if you outspend everyone by a good margin, odds are in your favor of winning more often than not. Yet the typical yankee fan can't bring themselves to acknowledge that. They can't admit that hey, we have always outspent everyone else. But they are the first to tell you '26 RINGS BABY!'
<< <i>
<< <i>People went to games and supported the Yanks when they were losing - they didn't just wither and die. >>
Mike, I must disagree with you here strongly. Yankee fans did not support the team at all when they were a bloated payroll heavy team filled with aging veterans and broken down players (hey, just like now!). Only because of their "tradition" and arrogance do many people like following this team. When the chips were down, you could always find empty seats in the Bronx. Try finding an empty seat in Fenway in recent memory - it's a much tougher task. Red Sox fans tend to be diehard, and support the team win or lose, heck we just experienced our first ring in most of our lifetimes! While their are certainly bandwagon fans of every team, they sure do seem to be growing them in droves in New York.
And, speaking of arrogance, that is perhaps the main reason there is so much anti-Yankee sentiment. Try and watch a game on their "YES" channel, and unless you are drinking the same kool aid as their butt-kissing announcers, you simply will go nuts. Every five minutes - we hear about the greatest franchise in the history of the free world, and how they are so "proud" and how far ahead of any other team in pro sports they are. No humility whatsoever, even as people acknowledge that much of the great "tradition" was obtained by simply spending many times more than the other teams. Because they can. Gee - how impressive. >>
Empty seats in the Bronx during "leaner' years? Of course, but then again, Yankee stadium seats over 55,000, so if you have 25,000 in attendance, you'll have plenty of empty seats, where as if you have 25,000 in Boston, it almost fills the place up. According to the MLB attendance figures, during 1986, when the Red Sox went to the World Series, they averaged 26,679 a game. The next year, they averaged 27,550. From 1996 to 1998, they were averaging around 28,000 a game. Save the "we Red Sox fans are more diehard than others and will support the team win or lose" for someone else. The numbers don't lie.
So you take exception to the YANKEE network being too Yankee-centric? What next? Are you going to complain how the NFL Network doesn't carry enough water polo programming?
GO MARLINS! Home of the best fans in baseball!!
DBH, am I missing something with your numbers? You are saying that the Red Sox basically had the same number of fans the year they went to the WS, as the years immediately after, and then ten years after. In fact, attendance was slightly higher in the non-WS years that followed. Using the numbers that you provided, I think you just helped me make my point.
<< <i>The Yankee network is beyond Yankee-centric. It is so over the top, that the average sports fan cannot enjoy a game broadcast on it. I am not the only one to say this, not by a longshot. A more impartial approach would be more professional, though I understand every team has a broadcaster who is a "homer".
DBH, am I missing something with your numbers? You are saying that the Red Sox basically had the same number of fans the year they went to the WS, as the years immediately after, and then ten years after. In fact, attendance was slightly higher in the non-WS years that followed. Using the numbers that you provided, I think you just helped me make my point. >>
YES Network is the home of the Yankees. Do you really think they care what Boston fans or fans from Chicago think of their programming? If Yankee fans are the ones watching the station and enjoying it, that's all that matters.
You want to talk homers? Boston had Johnny Most for crying out loud!!
As for the attendance figures I provided, it shows that Boston fans have not always supported Red Sox with huge crowds. They went through ups and downs just like every other team out there, so save the high and mighty "Boston Red Sox fans are the most loyal in the world" nonsense for someone else.
GO MARLINS! Home of the best fans in baseball!!
<< <i>That’s how long Fenway Park has been a relevant part of Americana. Red Sox tickets have long been one of the most cherished items in New England (due in part to the stadium’s relatively small capacity of 36,298) and the Sox have worked their way into the fabric of the region. >>
Excerpt from an article - in general - smaller stadiums will have a better chance of selling out.
My statements on fans vs. Johnny Come Lately's was not directed at attendance as such - I was talking in general terms.
I know NOTHING about attendance records, stadium capacities or anything.
I am an expert on NOTHING.
I just think that this stuff is fun to talk about but doesn't get me crazy or anything - heck, it's just a game, just a hobby, just cardboard.
My time talking with you guys is way more valuable than any one issue. Heck, we can't control what goes on at Yankee Stadium or Fenway Park. But we can control what we have here - some really fun discussions.
I'm just worried - I'm affraid Ax's head's going to explode.
<< <i>I just think that this stuff is fun to talk about but doesn't get me crazy or anything - heck, it's just a game, just a hobby, just cardboard.
My time talking with you guys is way more valuable than any one issue. Heck, we can't control what goes on at Yankee Stadium or Fenway Park. But we can control what we have here - some really fun discussions.
>>
Well said!
<< <i>The worst manager in baseball? You really can't be serious. >>
I know you meant Pinella...and I meant what I said. He's the worst manager in baseball? I'd like to see how many games that Torre could win with that lineup.
As far as his piling on for trying to get fired, wouldn't you be upset if you were told 'hey, we're going to spend some money and make your team competitive' then you see them roll out your star players to other teams? I would be frustrated as well.
Lou's always been a fiery guy, and has a ton of intensity. To say he's the worst manager in baseball? I would have to say that's a stretch.
<< <i>And, I do realize that Yankee Stadium is a lot larger than Fenway. But, it stands to reason, that there are many more people in the NY metro area than in the Boston area - certainly enough to offset the park size difference. >>
Keep in mind the location of Yankee stadium. I've never been to Fenway Park, but can tell you, if the Yankees played in a more "desirable" location within the city, attendance figures would be quite a bit higher. That being said, ball park attendance figures only tell part of the story. Not everyone goes to every single game and there are quite a few people who are content with just going to a game or two a year and following the rest of the season on television.
GO MARLINS! Home of the best fans in baseball!!
Heck, I remember last year that some of the Braves playoff games were not sold out! Go figure?
I guess people can get tired of a loser and tired of a winner?
This is stuff can drive you insane! I would consider the aid of a psychologist but I think talking to one of those guys would drive me crazy!
mike