New PayPal policy coming for eBay sellers

wayneherndon · July 15, 2005 11:08PM

Yesterdays news from PayPal/eBay may be of interest to any of you that accept only non-credit card PayPal payments.

WH

July 15, 2005 | 10:19AM PST/PT

Hi…we're Sarah Brubacher and Jeff Spaulding. Today, we're here to announce that eBay and PayPal are making some updates to our payments policies that will go into effect next month.

Beginning August 19, 2005, all sellers who offer PayPal as a payment option for their eBay listings must accept all forms of PayPal payment. This includes payments made via PayPal account balances, bank accounts, or credit cards, regardless of whether sellers display the PayPal logo with credit card icons.

We've had a lot of buyers and sellers tell us that the current policy is confusing, or felt it was unclear how PayPal's and eBay's respective policies applied to the situation where a seller displayed the PayPal logo but stated in their item description that they only accept payment via a balance or bank transfer. Our goal in updating this policy is to not only provide a consistent user experience for buyers, but also to create clearer policy and to better provide a level playing field for all sellers on eBay.

When the new policy takes effect, sellers who list with a PayPal Personal account may still receive payments funded via account balance or bank account transfers but must also be willing to upgrade to a PayPal Premier or Business Account if they receive a credit card payment via PayPal from their buyer.

Additionally, sellers may not communicate to eBay buyers (for example, in their item description) that they only accept, or will not accept, specific forms of PayPal payment. Doing so in a listing can lead to it being cancelled, and refusal to accept a payment after the auction has ended will constitute Seller Non-Performance.
http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/seller-non-performance.html?ssPageName=CMDV:AB

The details of this policy update can be found both in PayPal's Policy section [https://www.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_update-policy] and on eBay on our PayPal Payments Policy page.
http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/paypal-payments.html?ssPageName=CMDV:AB

Sincerely,

Sarah Brubacher
Senior Policy Manager, eBay

Jeff Spaulding
Senior Manager, eBay North America Business for PayPal

JrGMan2004 · July 15, 2005 11:14PM

And the Capitalism Squeeze continues at PayPal and EBay...

291fifth · July 15, 2005 11:18PM

The only thing that surprises me is that it took so long for them to take this action. It will have no effect on me since I changed to the premier account last year when it became obvious that many potential bidders would be lost if credit cards were not accepted.

bushmaster8 · July 15, 2005 11:27PM

Time to dump PayPud!

Barry · July 15, 2005 11:32PM

So what's the use of a Personal account?

stev32k · July 15, 2005 11:36PM

There were rumors a while back that Google was going into the online payment business. I hope they do, maybe a little competition will bring some of the fees down.

BAJJERFAN · July 15, 2005 11:39PM

<<"When the new policy takes effect, sellers who list with a PayPal Personal account may still receive payments funded via account balance or bank account transfers but must also be willing to upgrade to a PayPal Premier or Business Account if they receive a credit card payment via PayPal from their buyer.">>

Screw them!!

<< So what's the use of a Personal account? >>

Another backdoor attempt to squeeze out the the "personal" account guy.

kranky · July 15, 2005 11:43PM

<< So what's the use of a Personal account? >>

There are lots of people who use Paypal to buy/sell personal items on sites like craigslist, and computer sites. So they could still insist on non-CC Paypal without worrying about Ebay rules.

weresteve · July 15, 2005 11:45PM

<< 

<< So what's the use of a Personal account? >>

Another backdoor attempt to squeeze out the the "personal" account guy. >>

More likely ... an attempt to increase profits by forcing the issue of making people convert to a Premier account. If Yahoo Auctions were any serious threat to eBay, I would say screw eBay and switch over as Yahoo now accepts PayPal.

Steve

cosmicdebris · July 15, 2005 11:46PM

<< 

<< So what's the use of a Personal account? >>

There are lots of people who use Paypal to buy/sell personal items on sites like craigslist, and computer sites. So they could still insist on non-CC Paypal without worrying about Ebay rules. >>

This has nothing to do with Ebay rules it's Paypal's rules. So I do not think it matters where you sell and use Paypal. ( Yes I know EBay owns Paypal )

FatMan · July 15, 2005 11:50PM

Another screw job.

I have not sold on ebay in quite awhile, but when I did I used my personal PayPal account for bank or account transfers, and ran credit cards through my business. It seemed to be a win-win as I was able to keep my credit card fees low and it still brought a good amount of cash into the PayPal system as I usually turned around a bought goods with my PayPal balance and forwarded it on.

The fact that PayPal charges its fee to all transactions (not just credit cards) is a true rip. They should be thrilled to have cash enter their system, and to charge for that is nearly criminal. It would be like making a deposit at your bank and the bank charging you 2%+ to do so.

My business pays about a 35% to run credit cards vs PayPal's rates.

BAJJERFAN · July 15, 2005 11:50PM

There are lots of people who use Paypal to buy/sell personal items on sites like craigslist, and computer sites. So they could still insist on non-CC Paypal without worrying about Ebay rules. >>

If I list a coin for sale on the BS&T board I believe that I can still exclude CC type PayPal payments if I so choose. The memo refers specifically to eBay sales and auctions.

BAJJERFAN · July 15, 2005 11:58PM

A 1% fee on cash transfers would be a lot more palatable. I know PeePal gouges only $5 for an echeck but at what point does the $5 kick in vs the regular .30 plus 2.9%?
What about an echeck for $8 whats the fee on that? $5 or the calculated fee of 54 cents?

goose3 · July 16, 2005 12:00AM

they found a way to screw people like me that were smart enough to NOT display paypal (because they added the pics of the damn credit cards) but smart enough to note that it was accepted in my description but not via CC.

what a crock. I guess one can always email afterwords and tell winners or even ask that bidders email for ALL payment types.

Yet another reason to not sell on ebay.

kranky · July 16, 2005 12:02AM

<< 

<< 

<< So what's the use of a Personal account? >>

There are lots of people who use Paypal to buy/sell personal items on sites like craigslist, and computer sites. So they could still insist on non-CC Paypal without worrying about Ebay rules. >>

This has nothing to do with Ebay rules it's Paypal's rules. So I do not think it matters where you sell and use Paypal. ( Yes I know EBay owns Paypal ) >>

Bill, the way I read it, it's only applicable to Ebay.

<< Beginning August 19, 2005, all sellers who offer PayPal as a payment option for their eBay listings must accept all forms of PayPal payment. >>

(emphasis mine)

jdsinva · July 16, 2005 12:06AM

. . .and didn't even get a kiss. . .

BAJJERFAN · July 16, 2005 12:07AM

Well their logic is that it is too confusing to potential bidder/buyers. Sheesh man, all they gotta do is read AND ask the seller a question BEFORE they bid. DUH!!

kranky · July 16, 2005 12:12AM

<< Well their logic is that it is too confusing to potential bidder/buyers. Sheesh man, all they gotta do is read AND ask the seller a question BEFORE they bid. DUH!! >>

Yes, that would solve the problem but it's not in the best interests of Ebay and Paypal. For them, it's better for all those complaints to go away.

It's reasonable to assume that as long as there aren't any serious competitors to Paypal, Ebay and Paypal will be comfortable increasing their cut of the transactions.

ddink · July 16, 2005 12:28AM

<< The fact that PayPal charges its fee to all transactions (not just credit cards) is a true rip. They should be thrilled to have cash enter their system, and to charge for that is nearly criminal. It would be like making a deposit at your bank and the bank charging you 2%+ to do so. >>

PayPal does not loan money in order to make profit, like a bank. PayPal takes a commission from transactions between two people; "screws" you just like Western Union "screws" you, or BidPay "screws" you. Please explain why PayPal should be "thrilled" to have cash enter their system? When you pay a buyer, it's not like depositing money in your bank account; it's not a deposit, it's a transfer. PayPal doesn't keep any of that money for long enough to make a profit off of it (unlike your bank, who takes deposits and loans that money back out). Complain all you want, but if PayPal made it free to send and receive payments, they'd have no profits coming in, and with no profits but continuing overhead, they'd go bankrupt.

What's really sad is how much the Internet age has spoiled some of us. We're used to getting everything free: free music, free pictures, free information, no sales tax, free websites (such as Google). Face it--not everything in life is free. You pay a commission to car salesmen, you pay a commission to realtors (you have no problem paying a realtor a $15,000 commission for selling your home), you pay a commission to furniture salesmen, you pay a commission to some office stores, you pay a commission to your broker. Yeah, your broker should be thrilled that he has the opportunity to invest your money, and should do it free of charge. He shouldn't profit from you, he should just be glad he has the privilige to do you a favor! Grow up people.

Five years ago I switched to a premier account because it was obvious I'd lose tons of business on eBay if I didn't. It only took one transaction where I lost $500 in profit (the buyer backed out when I didn't accept credit cards by default--I changed my preferences but he then backed out of the deal, and I sold the item for far less). Over the last five years, I've paid PayPal at least $2,000 in fees. Am I happy about that? No, but it's the cost of doing business.

<< Well their logic is that it is too confusing to potential bidder/buyers. Sheesh man, all they gotta do is read AND ask the seller a question BEFORE they bid. DUH!! >>

So if you find an auction you want to bid on and it's close to auction close, just move on since you have no idea whether they REALLY accept PayPal or whether they just accept certain types of payments? That's like putting in your item description: "I accept all payment types, but please only pay by bank wire. I won't accept anything else." Yes, it is confusing. Yes, it does bring more profit to eBay. I'm happy they are finally doing this. Look, you have the option to stop using PayPal altogether if you are so righteously indignant. Just start accepting personal checks or MOs only. Watch your sales drop. Or you can suck up the 2.9% as "the cost of doing business," just like eBay fees are "the cost of doing business."

This move will increase eBay's profits by a substantial amount.
This move will reduce confusion and standardize PayPal acceptance.

It's a win-win for eBay and for buyers. If you don't like it, don't whine about it here--go cancel your PayPal and eBay accounts and peddle your coins on Yahoo (and watch your business die completely due to the lack of buyers over there).

BAJJERFAN · July 16, 2005 12:44AM

<<"So if you find an auction you want to bid on and it's close to auction close, just move on since you have no idea whether they REALLY accept PayPal or whether they just accept certain types of payments? That's like putting in your item description: "I accept all payment types, but please only pay by bank wire. I won't accept anything else." Yes, it is confusing. Yes, it does bring more profit to eBay. I'm happy they are finally doing this. Look, you have the option to stop using PayPal altogether if you are so righteously indignant. Just start accepting personal checks or MOs only. Watch your sales drop. Or you can suck up the 2.9% as "the cost of doing business," just like eBay fees are "the cost of doing business." >>

If you find an auction closing soon at least "read the damn thing BEFORE you bid" and assume that the seller's info in the description overrides any other statements or logos which are displayed. After all he made a special effort to put that info in the description for a reason.

littlejohn · July 16, 2005 12:55AM

The only thing that surprises me is that it took so long for them to take this action. It will have no effect on me since I changed to the premier account last year when it became obvious that many potential bidders would be lost if credit cards were not accepted.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
hi
i have a Premier Account,and do not take cc.
and its not hurt me at all.!!!!
and i do not belive ,it ever will.
because ,if you want the coin bad, you will get it any way you can.and not useing a cc. will not stop you ...
in the last 31 days,i have sold 29 item ,for a total 11,400.11
it did not slow me down any.
and i will stop selling on ebay ,if this going thur.
littlejohn

Mintstate · July 16, 2005 1:03AM

<< 
hi
i have a Premier Account,and do not take cc.
and its not hurt me at all.!!!!
and i do not belive ,it ever will.
because ,if you want the coin bad, you will get it any way you can.and not useing a cc. will not stop you ...
in the last 31 days,i have sold 29 item ,for a total 11,400.11
it did not slow me down any.
and i will stop selling on ebay ,if this going thur.
littlejohn >>

If you do have a Premier account, your being charged Paypal fees whether you take credit cards or not. Premier accounts pay fees on all transactions.

BAJJERFAN · July 16, 2005 1:05AM

Since at best I am a casual and VERY INFREQUENT seller on eBay I do not much care what they do.

littlejohn · July 16, 2005 1:11AM

If you do have a Premier account, your being charged Paypal fees whether you take credit cards or not. Premier accounts pay fees on all transactions.
-----------------------------------
du,

i know that,i just do not want to take cc.!!!!!!
littlejohn

rb7557 · July 16, 2005 1:16AM

This change doesn't affect me at all. The 1 that gets me is they're ending the billpay feature. That really burns me up. It was very convenient to pay certain billers from paypal. Now there's gonna be a waiting period for the funds to transfer back to my bank acct. and then more time waiting for the funds to transfer thru their billpay service. Whatever happened to "if it works don't fix it?"

Goldude · July 16, 2005 1:18AM

www.paypalsucks.com Paypal is a joke, i know alot of people here use them and like them, but at paypalsucks.com tells the truth about these pukes, i found out the hard way about payscum. Ok enough whining, i'm gonna go stare at my coin collection and porn site

littlejohn · July 16, 2005 1:21AM

hi
done got rip off two times ,from selling gold coins to persons useing cc., that why i quit takeing them . its not going to happen again.!!!!
if ebay dose this. you will see all gold and high dollar coins getting pull.its just to easy to get rip off.
littlejohn

dbldie55 · July 16, 2005 1:50AM

<< hi
done got rip off two times ,from selling gold coins to persons useing cc., that why i quit takeing them . its not going to happen again.!!!!
if ebay dose this. you will see all gold and high dollar coins getting pull.its just to easy to get rip off.
littlejohn >>

If you have a premier account, the buyer can use what ever they want and you have no control. If they use paypal, that is all you know, how they gave the money to PayPal is between the buyer and PayPal.

wayneherndon · July 16, 2005 1:53AM

If you have a premier account, the buyer can use what ever they want and you have no control. If they use paypal, that is all you know, how they gave the money to PayPal is between the buyer and PayPal.

Unless they use an e-check. Still no control but there is a delay in fund approval, a cap on fees and a two-step email notification process. So that method stands out when they use it.

WH

VAMs4U2BuyHere · July 16, 2005 1:57AM

<< Over the last 5 years, I've paid PayPal at least $2,000 in fees. Am I happy about that? No, but it's the cost of doing business. >>

It is the cost of doing business indeed. In the first half of fiscal year 2005 alone, I have contributed $1,309 to paypal, and $2,632 to ebay. Nearly $4,000 in "fees". I am able to offset some of this thru the use of paypals debit/credit card which returns 1.5%. So, I pay all of my teletrade invoices, heritage invoices, and get this... even my eBay fees are charged to my paypal CC so I still get back the 1.5% (But I am willing to bet that they will eventually catch on to this and put an immediate end to it).

And I completely agree that ending the billpay feature sucks A$$. This was extremely convenient and I am sure that they weren't doing it for free. So now I invite you to do the math... Paypal ends the billpay feature, subsequently cutting off revenue. This loss of revenue needs to be corrected, so they immediately force all eBayers to upgrade to a premier account.

BAJJERFAN · July 16, 2005 1:57AM

<< If you have a premier account, the buyer can use what ever they want and you have no control. If they use paypal, that is all you know, how they gave the money to PayPal is between the buyer and PayPal. >>

Simply hit refund and don't consummate the deal. Be a non-performing seller. I don't like the fact that a buyer can come back on you thru the CC company.

ddink · July 16, 2005 1:57AM

<< If you have a premier account, the buyer can use what ever they want and you have no control. If they use paypal, that is all you know, how they gave the money to PayPal is between the buyer and PayPal. >>

I think they just changed that. I used to get PayPal emails saying:

"This email confirms that you have received an eBay Instant Payment of $69.95 USD from xxxxxxxxxxx"

Today I got two saying:

"This email confirms that you have received a credit card payment from xxxxxxxxxx"

ddink · July 16, 2005 2:01AM

<< I don't like the fact that a buyer can come back on you thru the CC company. >>

I don't like the fact that if I don't pay with a credit card, a deadbeat seller can scam me out of my money. Don't even say "But PayPal has a buyer protection policy..."

PayPal's buyer protection policy requires that an item be shipped and signed for. I could buy a computer, get shipped some rocks in a computer-sized box, sign for it, and be screwed.

AND

If PayPal does decide for the buyer, and the seller withdraws the funds from their PayPal account and removes funds from their linked bank account, PayPal will say "I'm sorry, but we couldn't recover your money."

Credit card is the ONLY way for an eBay buyer to protect themselves.

TWODOGS · July 16, 2005 2:03AM

Yeah...it really sucks that they no longer provide a free service. Everybody should work for nothing, the World would be a wonderful place.

It just cracks me up to see all the "high-rollers" here whine about the cost of doing business.

littlejohn · July 16, 2005 2:10AM

don't like the fact that if I don't pay with a credit card, a deadbeat seller can scam me out of my money
-----------------------------------
WHY the he;77 are you buying from deadbeat seller????

littlejohn

AuldFartte · July 16, 2005 2:12AM

<< Time to dump PayPud! >>

... and dump sleaze-bay

littlejohn · July 16, 2005 2:14AM

It just cracks me up to see all the "high-rollers" here whine about the cost of doing business.
----------------------------
i think your not reading this very good.
were not whine about the cost of doing business.
it about takeing cc. , that we are whine about .
get it right.
littlejohn

littlejohn · July 16, 2005 2:17AM

i am sorry, been in a bad mood all week ,and this just really piss me off.
i want say anything else.
littlejohn

TWODOGS · July 16, 2005 2:17AM

<< i think your not reading this very good.
were not whine about the cost of doing business.
it about takeing cc. , that we are whine about .
get it right.
littlejohn >>

Awwww geeze...don't get me started on the "literary skills" thing...

kranky · July 16, 2005 2:19AM

Another aspect is that no matter what the rules are, no middleman can guarantee a satisfactory transaction. If they did, the fees would be astronomical. No online company's protection plan can really protect people - they do not have, nor desire to have, the necessary manpower. They play the percentages and decide what is an acceptable level of ripoffs, just like credit card issuers do.

Paypal knows that shipping a box via a trackable method and a signature on delivery means people sometimes get a box of rocks, but they don't care.

It's futile to expect transactions performed electronically between total strangers who could be located anywhere in the world to always work out when there is no one monitoring the deal. People could demand an escrow service right now, but they don't because they don't want to pay for it.

I deal with people I know personally, people who have been referred to me, or people I know have a reputation for customer satisfaction. That absolutely means I miss out on "good deals" from anonymous ebay sellers. To me, they are anonymous without meeting one of the above criteria no matter how much feedback they have. I don't care what I miss out on because I'm more interested in a smooth transaction without having to worry about getting ripped off by a scammer. There's always another coin.

VAMs4U2BuyHere · July 16, 2005 2:19AM

<----- A hope to be, wannabe, someday be, "high-roller".

topstuf · July 16, 2005 2:19AM

I have said my piece about Paypal. Don't use em. Did once and had no problems until they decided I couldn't have $2000 unless I sent them my driver's license and a LETTER from my bank.

THEN....they charged me $1.99 to get it all at once instead of the $500 per month they WANTED to let me have.

Somewhere there's a bank with enough brains to dope this out properly and bury Paypal in the heap of sewage they belong in.

I don't mind paying for a service, but I will NOT put up with GOOD FUNDS being withheld.

Simple solution is to sell stuff that people want enough to mail a check for.

Barry · July 16, 2005 2:22AM

<< It just cracks me up to see all the "high-rollers" here whine about the cost of doing business. >>

There are no high rollers complaining. As it stands now, with a Personal account, PP permitted a maximum of $500/mo without their surcharges. It's the occasional seller/collector that gets hit by this.

ddink · July 16, 2005 2:33AM

<< WHY the he;77 are you buying from deadbeat seller???? >>

Because I'm not psychic. If only I could read minds, THEN I would be certain the person I'm buying from was on the up-and-up. Feedback is next to meaningless, given that the other party is afraid of retaliatory negs.

Twodogs: Littlejohn is just a product of our education system. Don't pick on him just because he doesn't know how to spell, capitalize, punctuate, use sentences, or use proper grammer and spacing!

ddink · July 16, 2005 2:36AM

<< Paypal knows that shipping a box via a trackable method and a signature on delivery means people sometimes get a box of rocks, but they don't care. >>

As you said, it's not that they don't care, but that it's impossible for them to prevent fraud or even stenuously guard against it. That's why every buyer should use credit cards to pay for merchandise.

<<
I deal with people I know personally, people who have been referred to me, or people I know have a reputation for customer satisfaction. That absolutely means I miss out on "good deals" from anonymous ebay sellers. To me, they are anonymous without meeting one of the above criteria no matter how much feedback they have. I don't care what I miss out on because I'm more interested in a smooth transaction without having to worry about getting ripped off by a scammer. There's always another coin.
>>

So much the better. But those of us who don't have extensive networks of reliable sellers simply must do business with total strangers. When doing so, always use a credit card. Why miss out on "good deals" from unknown sellers? Just pay with a credit card and you have no worries!

TWODOGS · July 16, 2005 2:38AM

<< There are no high rollers complaining. As it stands now, with a Personal account, PP permitted a maximum of $500/mo without their surcharges. It's the occasional seller/collector that gets hit by this. >>

There are people that do a lot of business on ebay that complain all the time. Whether it's about people that can't read the disclaimer in their listings that state, "No credit card payments through PayPal." or about the fees.

It's a cost of doing business.

I'm one of the occasional sellers on ebay. About 400 transactions in 5 years. Sales of low dollar coins so that I can afford to buy more low dollar coins to look at.

A guy that lives in a 1973 Dodge Van in the stinking desert can understand the cost of doing business...and doesn't whine about it. Sorry.

Russ · July 16, 2005 2:44AM

PayPal should just get it over with and eliminate personal accounts. If they actually believe their stated reason (confusion) for this latest change, then they must realize they have made it even more confusing. Since the real reason has nothing to do with confusion it's obvious they're going to nuke the freebie accounts sooner or later.

Russ, NCNE

razorface1027 · July 16, 2005 2:56AM

I guess this is to cover the IDIOTS that can't read or are too lazy to read. They should propose another option for the people, like me, that sell occasionally at prices that don't exceed $100 to $150. Cripes, we're/I'm getting hammered enough by th insertion fees and FVF. For the high price & large volume sellers it really doesn't matter. This is just another way for them to rake the small time, well in my case tiny time, sellers through the coals. I know. WAH, WAH, WAH.

Tom

ldhair · July 16, 2005 3:08AM

I would bet personal accounts will be gone soon.

I wonder if Paypal has to pay fees to cc companies?

ms70 · July 16, 2005 3:17AM

I have no problem with it but then again I'm a hobbyist, not a dealer. Aren't the fees deductable as a business expense?

PayPal probably could've won everyone over on this if they cut a slight break in fees to sellers when a credit card payment is made.

TWODOGS · July 16, 2005 3:45AM

<< They should propose another option for the people, like me, that sell occasionally at prices that don't exceed $100 to $150. Cripes, we're/I'm getting hammered enough by th insertion fees and FVF. For the high price & large volume sellers it really doesn't matter. This is just another way for them to rake the small time, well in my case tiny time, sellers through the coals. I know. WAH, WAH, WAH.

Tom >>

Yes...and gas companies should have lower prices per gallon for people with 1973 Dodge Vans. I guess life is truly unfair.

New PayPal policy coming for eBay sellers

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