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Let the countdown begin....10 hits until 3000

megatronmegatron Posts: 955
in Sports Talk
For Rafael Palmeiro. Hit yet another home run tonight. Now has 2,990 hits for his career. 10 more and he joins only Hank Aaron and Eddie Murray as those with at least 500 home runs and 3,000 hits in a career.

Congrats to Raffy!!
image

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1. When Chuck Norris does a pushup, he isn't lifting himself up, he's pushing the Earth down
2. According to Einstein's theory of relativity, Chuck Norris can actually roundhouse kick you yesterday
3. There are no such things as lesbians, just women who have not yet met Chuck Norris

Comments

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    AxtellAxtell Posts: 10,037 ✭✭
    And he still doesn't belong in the hall of fame.

    The fact the guy up and lied in front of congress about taking steroids further took away any legitimacy his stats had. Like it's just coincidence that he started hitting home runs (after hitting next to none) right after Canseco showed up?

    Come on now Raffy, we aren't as ignorant as you'd like us to be.
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    Gemmy10Gemmy10 Posts: 2,990 ✭
    You are a Dweeb.
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    AxtellAxtell Posts: 10,037 ✭✭


    << <i>You are a Dweeb. >>



    And you fail to again add anything constructive to the conversation, resorting to name-calling in your first post?

    What, did the yankees make you cry in your cereal again?

    Boo friggin hoo.
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    jshermnjshermn Posts: 5
    How do you know he lied to Congress?
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    denwd1denwd1 Posts: 430
    his lips were moving image
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    CardsFanCardsFan Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Like it's just coincidence that he started hitting home runs (after hitting next to none) right after Canseco showed up? >>



    Maybe it is just a coincidence many players don't develop their power stroke for a few years. Stan Musial didn't hit over 20 home runs for his first 6 years then busted out with 39. It's very common for line drive hitters to develop much more power as their career progresses. Lyle Overbay would be a current example.

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    CardsFanCardsFan Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭
    Oh, and yes he does belong in the Hall of Fame.
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    AxtellAxtell Posts: 10,037 ✭✭
    Prior to Canseco's arrival in Texas, Raffy averaged 15 HRs per year in 6 seasons (this isn't a small sample size at all).

    Suddenly, Canseco arrives and he averages over 38 per year since then?

    Yeah, that's just coincidence?

    Not.

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    CardsFanCardsFan Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭
    I suggest you look at the numbers a little closer instead of averaging. In his second year he hit 14 in only 221 ab's so you if want to average that out he would have hit 30+ that year without Canseco. He hit 26 the year before Canseco arrived and only 22 the next year. You make it sound as if jumped from 0 to 40 in a year which is just not true. He did greatly increase his power as his career went on and this may be attributed to steriods or maybe not but I don't see a direct relation to Canseco shows up and boom he's all powerful.
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    1420sports1420sports Posts: 3,473 ✭✭✭
    10 more and he joins only Hank Aaron and Eddie Murray as those with at least 500 home runs and 3,000 hits in a career.

    Say Hey? Let's not forget Willie Mays ....
    collecting various PSA and SGC cards
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    megatronmegatron Posts: 955


    << <i>10 more and he joins only Hank Aaron and Eddie Murray as those with at least 500 home runs and 3,000 hits in a career.

    Say Hey? Let's not forget Willie Mays .... >>



    image
    image

    Remember these Chuck Norris Facts

    1. When Chuck Norris does a pushup, he isn't lifting himself up, he's pushing the Earth down
    2. According to Einstein's theory of relativity, Chuck Norris can actually roundhouse kick you yesterday
    3. There are no such things as lesbians, just women who have not yet met Chuck Norris
  • Options
    AxtellAxtell Posts: 10,037 ✭✭


    << <i>I suggest you look at the numbers a little closer instead of averaging. In his second year he hit 14 in only 221 ab's so you if want to average that out he would have hit 30+ that year without Canseco. He hit 26 the year before Canseco arrived and only 22 the next year. You make it sound as if jumped from 0 to 40 in a year which is just not true. He did greatly increase his power as his career went on and this may be attributed to steriods or maybe not but I don't see a direct relation to Canseco shows up and boom he's all powerful. >>



    Funny how you tell me to not look at averages, but you say he only hit 14 in 221 ab's, then say 22 the year after Canseco arriving (failing to mention that he missed 50+ games).

    You can't have it both ways in an argument image

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    CardsFanCardsFan Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭
    I didn't say I wanted both ways of the argument. My exact statement was

    << <i>so you if want to average that out he would have hit 30+ that year >>

    meaning that if we are going to look at averages then you need to look at that stat which does not fit the pattern of the 15 hr ave. Basically he had two years where he lit for no power, besides that he has decent power numbers every year.

    As for when he missed 51 games that was 94 two years after Canseco arrived. I was incorrect in thinking Canseco came in 91 when it was actually 92. But that means he did have he already begun his power surge going from 8 to 14 to 26 before Canseco even came into the picture.
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    vikesfan40vikesfan40 Posts: 104


    << <i>

    << <i>Like it's just coincidence that he started hitting home runs (after hitting next to none) right after Canseco showed up? >>



    Maybe it is just a coincidence many players don't develop their power stroke for a few years. Stan Musial didn't hit over 20 home runs for his first 6 years then busted out with 39. It's very common for line drive hitters to develop much more power as their career progresses. Lyle Overbay would be a current example. >>



    Very well said. I may ad that an analysis of Raffy's physical attributes hardly resemble that of a steroid abuser. He is not muscular. His body looks nothing like Canseco, Mcguire, Sosa, Bonds, etc. Palmeiro has always been a silky smooth talented hitter with a beautiful southpaw swing. Steroids may ad 40 feet to your fly balls but they don't give you talent, and make no mistake, Palmeiro is definitely one of the most talented hitters of his era. Anyone who can say a player that amasses over 3000 hits in a career doesn't belong in the hall is ignorant. Palmeiro has also not been plagued with injuries as most steroid abusers usually are. I personally beleive Raffy is clean. Besides, his drug of choice is Viagra.

    There are many non-deserving members of the hall, but Palmeiro will not be among them. To claim his lack of awards should keep him out is silly. A player could be the second best player in the league for 20 years and never win an award. He would still be among the greatest players in history as Palmeiro is.
    Collecting PSA and BGS 500 HR & 3000 Hit Club Baseball
    HOF Quarterbacks Football
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    AxtellAxtell Posts: 10,037 ✭✭


    << <i>

    There are many non-deserving members of the hall, but Palmeiro will not be among them. To claim his lack of awards should keep him out is silly. A player could be the second best player in the league for 20 years and never win an award. He would still be among the greatest players in history as Palmeiro is. >>



    The thing is, he hasn't been the second best player for 20 years. He's had a long, steady career but never dominated.

    The best he's EVER done in MVP voting was 5th.

    He's finished 4th or better in OPS just ONCE (twice), and never led the league.

    It's hillarious that some on this board 'oh no we can't give the hall to someone just because they've played forever'. But Raffy belongs in? He's never dominated, he's never been the best in the league, hell, never even been close to winning an MVP. But because he's stuck around forever he should get in the hall?

    Ridiculous.
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    CubfanCubfan Posts: 1,545
    Argue all you want, he will be an easy entrant to the Hall of Fame.
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    SkinpinchSkinpinch Posts: 1,531
    Palmeiro was never remotely close to the second best player in league. In fact, I believe he may have cracked the top ten in MLB as a hitter just one time in his career. He was routinely closer to the 25th best PLAYER in MLB on a yearly basis, look it up. He is much closer to Harold Baines than he is to a true Hall of Famer. Go back and research these boards on Palmeiro, I've showed plenty on him, so I'm not typing all that stuff up again.

    The expanding of the league at the exact same time as the lessening of the player pool is the main culprit in the surge of dominance of this era's hitters when measuring relative to the league. The ballparks, lively balls, no inside pitching, thin pitching staffs etc... are the culprits for the increase in raw numbers.

    The writers aren't the best analysists of players so he probably will get in, but the matter of deserving it is in doubt as I have shown plenty of times in previous posts.

    As for longevity, people always make stupid statements. A guy can play 30 years and be below average as a hitter, yet get 3,000 hits, and based on people's philosophies that makes that player a Hall of Famer?? Fact is, Palmeiro was never remotely close to be the best player in the league. His raw numbers are pretty, if they are compared to guys from 1970-1992, but there were too many guys who were better than Palmeiro in the same environment.

    Also, please don't just look at total HR and total Hits. Edgar Martinez was a vastly, and I mean VASTLY superior hitter than Palmeiro, and he doesn't come close to him in either totoal HR or total hits.

    Go back and read the earlier posts on him. Those are some of the topics in a nutshell here.
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    AxtellAxtell Posts: 10,037 ✭✭


    << <i>Argue all you want, he will be an easy entrant to the Hall of Fame. >>



    And that will signal a flood of unworthy occupants of the hall.

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    SkinpinchSkinpinch Posts: 1,531
    More on the 3,000, 500 club...yeah its a neat accomplishment, but it doesn't make you better than what you really are. For instance, I was a fan of Eddie Murray, and he is a member of that club, but that doesn't make him more deserving of recognition, or a better player than Mickey Mantle, who was NOT a member of that club. Yeah, there probably won't be a lot of guys in Palmeiro's time where things will work out perfectly so they can accomplish both feats, but that doesn't make him better than those guys or more worthy of recognition(which is what the Hall is). That is the first thing people have to understand when it comes to Palmeiro.
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    kobykoby Posts: 1,699 ✭✭


    << <i>Argue all you want, he will be an easy entrant to the Hall of Fame. >>



    I agree. I am not a big fan but he will be first or second ballot for sure.
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    SkinpinchSkinpinch Posts: 1,531
    Look back in older posts and you will see that Palmeiro averaging 40 homers a year age 35-38, compared to 20 a year from age 25-27 is not the same as Musial who averaged only 21 homers a year age 35-39. Palmeiro's jump had lots of outside influence, mainly the league environment. Steroids we just can't tell for sure.

    Nobody was able to have such an increase in Home RUns age 35+ compared to age 25-28 as did Palmeiro(except maybe some guys from the same live ball era as Palmeiro).
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    AxtellAxtell Posts: 10,037 ✭✭
    Anyone who thinks that Raffy was able to increase his power numbers so substanstially so late in his career without the use of growth hormones and steroids is ignorant at best.

    These are the same people who 'knew' Bonds was clean I bet.
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    megatronmegatron Posts: 955


    << <i>Anyone who thinks that Raffy was able to increase his power numbers so substanstially so late in his career without the use of growth hormones and steroids is ignorant at best. >>



    This is of course coming form the world renowned expert on steroids himselfimage
    image

    Remember these Chuck Norris Facts

    1. When Chuck Norris does a pushup, he isn't lifting himself up, he's pushing the Earth down
    2. According to Einstein's theory of relativity, Chuck Norris can actually roundhouse kick you yesterday
    3. There are no such things as lesbians, just women who have not yet met Chuck Norris
  • Options
    AxtellAxtell Posts: 10,037 ✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Anyone who thinks that Raffy was able to increase his power numbers so substanstially so late in his career without the use of growth hormones and steroids is ignorant at best. >>



    This is of course coming form the world renowned expert on steroids himselfimage >>



    There is no normal way outside these chemical substances that a hitter like raffy would double his HR output this late in his career.

    There is another player who went through this same type of late career power surge....his name is Barry Bonds.

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