<< <i>Myqqy - who made you judge and jury. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Opinions are not scorable. Maybe you should go grade coins instead and get some practice in.
My opinions are scorable. Here's my updated score sheet on this thread: seanq- +10 neptune- -15
You still lose this argument. I grade coins all the time, as I find it useful for my numismatic education. Thanks for the suggestion, though.... >>
PCGS MS65 2005-D "Speared Bison" Reverse Die Gouge Error Nickel.
This auction is a DUTCH Auction. Your bid is for one, two or three certified coins ----> PCGS MS65 2005-D "Speared Bison" Reverse Die Gouge Error Nickel. These are the very last PCGS Speared Bisons that will ever be sold by me. >>
Emphasis mine.. interesting...
Sean Reynolds
Incomplete planchets wanted, especially Lincoln Cents & type coins.
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
I never employ nicknames as they are uninformative and misleading. "Technical" terms such as "die gouge", "die scratch", "die dent", actually tell you something about the nature and origin of the defect. Even non-specific technical terms like "die damage" and "die error" at least serve to distinguish "speared bisons" and "wounded eagles" from true die varieties and from striking errors.
Nicknames such as "speared bison" serve no useful purpose other than to denote a particular case of die damage.
Here is a case of extraordinarily severe die damage which makes the speared bison look laughable by comparison:
Would you mind giving me the technical name for "Three-Legged Buffalo"...that sure sounds like a "nickname" to me! Perhaps you can fill me in on the proper numismatic term for "Speared Bison?" >>
The "three-legged" buffalo nickel represents nothing more than a case of overzealous die abrasion ("die polishing") by a mint technician. Far more severe cases in other years and other denominations can be purchased for a few dollars. Lincoln cents from 1972 and 1974 have some really severe cases.
The "speared bison" appears to be a die gouge, but one cannot exclude a linear die dent. It's a fairly clear defect, but I've seen stronger. I generally pay a buck or two for similar die gouges that have not been hyped.
Mike Diamond is an error coin writer and researcher. Views expressed here do not necessarily reflect those held by any organization I am a member of.
This has been a very interesting thread. I remember a whack-job forum member who got bammed for pushing the pissing minuteman die crack! I argued with him that is was just a stinking die crack. If neptune make millions on the stupid buffalo, more friggan' power to her! There have been people here trying to get PCGS and NGC to attribute the Bugs Bunny Franklin and still nothing. If neptune got PCGS to put her SB on the slab, more friggan power to her! She got away with something the rest of us could only dream of! We took a run of the mill, almost worn out die error and turned it into CASH! and got the top grading services to buy into it! I don't care if it's an error or a variety, or a mint workers snot on the coin. She walked the walk and did what the whack-job couldn't with the PMM! So leave her be! In a year or so you'll be able to buy them in the sale bins, unless she talks PCGS into adding them into the registry!!
It is not exactly cheating, I prefer to consider it creative problem solving!!!
Are the crazy prices for this SB die gouge starting to come down? It appears to me that some parties are still trying to hype up the price? Is the party over for this PCGS blunder over already
<< <i>This has been a very interesting thread. I remember a whack-job forum member who got bammed for pushing the pissing minuteman die crack! I argued with him that is was just a stinking die crack. If neptune make millions on the stupid buffalo, more friggan' power to her! There have been people here trying to get PCGS and NGC to attribute the Bugs Bunny Franklin and still nothing. If neptune got PCGS to put her SB on the slab, more friggan power to her! She got away with something the rest of us could only dream of! We took a run of the mill, almost worn out die error and turned it into CASH! and got the top grading services to buy into it! I don't care if it's an error or a variety, or a mint workers snot on the coin. She walked the walk and did what the whack-job couldn't with the PMM! So leave her be! In a year or so you'll be able to buy them in the sale bins, unless she talks PCGS into adding them into the registry!! >>
<< <i>This has been a very interesting thread. I remember a whack-job forum member who got bammed for pushing the pissing minuteman die crack! I argued with him that is was just a stinking die crack. If neptune make millions on the stupid buffalo, more friggan' power to her! There have been people here trying to get PCGS and NGC to attribute the Bugs Bunny Franklin and still nothing. If neptune got PCGS to put her SB on the slab, more friggan power to her! She got away with something the rest of us could only dream of! We took a run of the mill, almost worn out die error and turned it into CASH! and got the top grading services to buy into it! I don't care if it's an error or a variety, or a mint workers snot on the coin. She walked the walk and did what the whack-job couldn't with the PMM! So leave her be! In a year or so you'll be able to buy them in the sale bins, unless she talks PCGS into adding them into the registry!! >>
Marty's funny! >>
I call them like I sees them!!
It is not exactly cheating, I prefer to consider it creative problem solving!!!
<< <i>This has been a very interesting thread. I remember a whack-job forum member who got bammed for pushing the pissing minuteman die crack! I argued with him that is was just a stinking die crack. If neptune make millions on the stupid buffalo, more friggan' power to her! There have been people here trying to get PCGS and NGC to attribute the Bugs Bunny Franklin and still nothing. If neptune got PCGS to put her SB on the slab, more friggan power to her! She got away with something the rest of us could only dream of! We took a run of the mill, almost worn out die error and turned it into CASH! and got the top grading services to buy into it! I don't care if it's an error or a variety, or a mint workers snot on the coin. She walked the walk and did what the whack-job couldn't with the PMM! So leave her be! In a year or so you'll be able to buy them in the sale bins, unless she talks PCGS into adding them into the registry!! >>
Marty's funny! >>
I calls them like I sees them!! >>
It is not exactly cheating, I prefer to consider it creative problem solving!!!
I have to ask again, are the prices for these die gouges coming down? It appears that they are being pushed pretty hard by some as of late so I was wondering if these have started a downward spiral?
<< <i>This has been a very interesting thread. I remember a whack-job forum member who got bammed for pushing the pissing minuteman die crack! I argued with him that is was just a stinking die crack. If neptune make millions on the stupid buffalo, more friggan' power to her! There have been people here trying to get PCGS and NGC to attribute the Bugs Bunny Franklin and still nothing. If neptune got PCGS to put her SB on the slab, more friggan power to her! She got away with something the rest of us could only dream of! We took a run of the mill, almost worn out die error and turned it into CASH! and got the top grading services to buy into it! I don't care if it's an error or a variety, or a mint workers snot on the coin. She walked the walk and did what the whack-job couldn't with the PMM! So leave her be! In a year or so you'll be able to buy them in the sale bins, unless she talks PCGS into adding them into the registry!! >>
I'm lost...what is this "pigpen" you refer to for play calling? I thought this was a thread of someone trying to reach out for help about name calling?
Speaking of play calling, Big Ben has been given more latitude this season with audibles and improvisation.
Is that true?? I heard last that cowher wasn't planning on giving ben more pass plays, but was going to keep relying on the running game..... but I could easily be out of the loop.....
My style is impetuous, my defense is impregnable !
<< <i>Speaking of play calling, Big Ben has been given more latitude this season with audibles and improvisation.
Is that true?? I heard last that cowher wasn't planning on giving ben more pass plays, but was going to keep relying on the running game..... but I could easily be out of the loop..... >>
I think that besides all the differing views and a bit of flaming which is common in most forums, Neptune raised a point that I find interesting.
Neptune was informing us about a letter she wants to send in criticism of an "elitist" evaluation of certain error coins which contribute to her income.
Personally I enjoyed Neptune's letter. I don't agree with all of it but it's civilized and does raise issues that need to be brought up for the good of our hobby and the good of the profession of some of us.
Before going any further, let me clarify that I don't collect error coins of any kind. Also I am not interested in coins, stamps or other things that get "promoted" on eBay, TV, magazines or any place else. I'll buy things in many places including eBay if those "things" relate to a specific need of mine, if that something "fits" my quality requirements AND if the price is right.
Cladking said << Certainly we should all collect what we find interesting and no one should be told he's doing it wrong since it's impossible to do it wrong if you're having fun or learning something. >>
Neptune ends with << I think the more knowledgeable error collectors should quit being so darn elitist with the new collectors. >> I don't think it is a matter of belonging to an elite or not. The concern everybody has or should have is that excess hype is dangerous for the hobby and for the professionals and amateurs that deal with the coin collecting hobby.
Excess hype can group all kinds of surreptitious coin things under a "not so honorable" flag or some other classification that "sounds" negative and "looks" negative. It drives people away. Let's not mix things up here.
The fact is that if people get ripped off the noise factor is much more effective than the behavior of the tons of honest and reputable dealers, auction houses and collectors around.
I don't think we will see many threads on how honest dealer A is or dealer B is. Nor do I think that such a thread would have much following. It just would not be "sensational enough".
When there is a "fight" or a "potential" fight, then we'll all read about it and some of us will join in too. Who can truly resist the attraction of a good scrap?
In the 1870's and later there were people selling the Brooklyn Bridge to unwary newbies visiting New York City. In the 1880's there were people selling gold-something plated 1883 nickels as $5 dollar gold pieces because some wise guy (or wise guys) at the U.S. Mint had thought it smart or artistic or "elitist" to make 5 cent pieces without placing the word "cents" anywhere on the coin and using the Roman V to represent the number five.
Are these modern error coins to be classified with similar forms of skullduggery? I don't think so. You have to be at least 18 (as far as I know) to bid at auction or use a credit card. The "error" is there to be seen even if not always that obvious. The grading service (or services) have given the patent of authenticity to those coins. The most I would have to say about such coins is "Go figure?!".
There will always be people that believe in get-rich quick schemes. If people buy things thinking that they are going to "make a killing", is the seller exclusively at fault or can some blame be put on the lack of scruples of the buyer as well? People that bought Argentina bonds with double figure interest rates should at least have "wondered" why the offer was so much higher than other offerings.
Neptune is supplying a service in answer to a market request for that service. Using a means such as eBay the price paid will eventually be what Mr. Somebody will consider in line with his or her tastes and his or her wallet. The issue of "fun" applied to a commercial
I would probably suggest buying other kinds of coins if I were asked about it. The point is that generally neither I nor others are being asked about what to buy.
Often newbies view things as "easy" and scoff about how people with more experience than they have are "boring", "dull", "a pain", etc. When I started buying coins I was no different. I paid the price of inexperience as I am sure most everybody else has. And to be truthful I am sure that I will make more mistakes as time goes on. Hopefully every once in w while I'll get some things right too.
Power corrupts and hurts people that don't have it. Those that wield power relish it and thrive well because of it.
I think that as long as nobody gets ripped off, most sales activities are acceptable. Nobody is forcing anybody to buy anything.
This sort of error coin collecting is a fashion or fad today that will either pass or stay on.
<< In a year or so you'll be able to buy them in the sale bins, unless she talks PCGS into adding them into the registry!! >> Time will tell.
I'll continue with my Morgan Dollars and other coins that I enjoy.
cho10
Collecting since the 1980's Morgan Dollars Circ. Strikes - Basic Set - Varieties - Prooflike Basic Set - Date Set - Carson City - Early S Mint Short Set - Mintmark Type Set Morgan Dollars Proof - Basic Set - Varieties Peace Circ.
Comments
<< <i>Re: edited posts.
Sorry, I thought it important to add: Greed is good, and the pursuit of profit the loftiest of ideals.©
I think that by calling her greedy you have violated the intended spirit of this thread. Poor form
Apropos of the coin posse/aka caca: "The longer he spoke of his honor, the tighter I held to my purse."
Dude, don't put words in my mouth. Poor form on your part. I was calling myself greedy.
Nice use of the word "dude".....
BTW, I thought Lucybop did very well in this thread- she seems pretty adept at calling people on their BS.......
<< <i>Myqqy - who made you judge and jury. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Opinions are not scorable. Maybe you should go grade coins instead and get some practice in.
My opinions are scorable. Here's my updated score sheet on this thread:
seanq- +10
neptune- -15
You still lose this argument. I grade coins all the time, as I find it useful for my numismatic education. Thanks for the suggestion, though....
My score:
seanq- +21
neptune- -17
Big Ben: 100
Is someones personal info going to be posted on here soon?
Sorry
I just see many similarities in the attack(s) and responses.
<< <i>You're still here?
Yeah, ain't I supposed to be???
<< <i>You're still here?
Who you talkin' to Willis ?
<< <i>DUTCH AUCTION!
PCGS MS65 2005-D "Speared Bison" Reverse Die Gouge Error Nickel.
This auction is a DUTCH Auction. Your bid is for one, two or three certified coins ----> PCGS MS65 2005-D "Speared Bison" Reverse Die Gouge Error Nickel. These are the very last PCGS Speared Bisons that will ever be sold by me. >>
Emphasis mine.. interesting...
Sean Reynolds
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
Nicknames such as "speared bison" serve no useful purpose other than to denote a particular case of die damage.
Here is a case of extraordinarily severe die damage which makes the speared bison look laughable by comparison:
Link
It has no nickname and that's just as it should be. The coin stands on its own merits.
I am in complete agreement with the sentiments expressed by Seanq and Coppercoins.
And? Your point?
<< <i>
Would you mind giving me the technical name for "Three-Legged Buffalo"...that sure sounds like a "nickname" to me! Perhaps you can fill me in on the proper numismatic term for "Speared Bison?"
>>
The "three-legged" buffalo nickel represents nothing more than a case of overzealous die abrasion ("die polishing") by a mint technician. Far more severe cases in other years and other denominations can be purchased for a few dollars. Lincoln cents from 1972 and 1974 have some really severe cases.
The "speared bison" appears to be a die gouge, but one cannot exclude a linear die dent. It's a fairly clear defect, but I've seen stronger. I generally pay a buck or two for similar die gouges that have not been hyped.
"Senorita HepKitty"
"I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
<< <i>bring back KINGKOIN I say! >>
That's right, he tried to push the PMM (there are only 9 known) and got his ass kicked off of here for it!
His passion was as strong as anybodys for any collectible item...
"Senorita HepKitty"
"I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
<< <i>There have been people here trying to get PCGS and NGC to attribute the Bugs Bunny Franklin and still nothing. >>
And the 1964 Pointed 9 dime.
Edit: PCGS anyway. NGC does attribute it.
Russ, NCNE
"Senorita HepKitty"
"I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
<< <i>There is always the Ultra rare LucyBop Frankie, several know examples escaped the mint and command a crazy premium..
<< <i>There is always the Ultra rare LucyBop Frankie, several know examples escaped the mint and command a crazy premium..
] >>
...as well they should.
<< <i>This has been a very interesting thread. I remember a whack-job forum member who got bammed for pushing the pissing minuteman die crack! I argued with him that is was just a stinking die crack. If neptune make millions on the stupid buffalo, more friggan' power to her! There have been people here trying to get PCGS and NGC to attribute the Bugs Bunny Franklin and still nothing. If neptune got PCGS to put her SB on the slab, more friggan power to her! She got away with something the rest of us could only dream of! We took a run of the mill, almost worn out die error and turned it into CASH! and got the top grading services to buy into it! I don't care if it's an error or a variety, or a mint workers snot on the coin. She walked the walk and did what the whack-job couldn't with the PMM! So leave her be! In a year or so you'll be able to buy them in the sale bins, unless she talks PCGS into adding them into the registry!! >>
Marty's funny!
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>
<< <i>This has been a very interesting thread. I remember a whack-job forum member who got bammed for pushing the pissing minuteman die crack! I argued with him that is was just a stinking die crack. If neptune make millions on the stupid buffalo, more friggan' power to her! There have been people here trying to get PCGS and NGC to attribute the Bugs Bunny Franklin and still nothing. If neptune got PCGS to put her SB on the slab, more friggan power to her! She got away with something the rest of us could only dream of! We took a run of the mill, almost worn out die error and turned it into CASH! and got the top grading services to buy into it! I don't care if it's an error or a variety, or a mint workers snot on the coin. She walked the walk and did what the whack-job couldn't with the PMM! So leave her be! In a year or so you'll be able to buy them in the sale bins, unless she talks PCGS into adding them into the registry!! >>
Marty's funny!
I call them like I sees them!!
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>This has been a very interesting thread. I remember a whack-job forum member who got bammed for pushing the pissing minuteman die crack! I argued with him that is was just a stinking die crack. If neptune make millions on the stupid buffalo, more friggan' power to her! There have been people here trying to get PCGS and NGC to attribute the Bugs Bunny Franklin and still nothing. If neptune got PCGS to put her SB on the slab, more friggan power to her! She got away with something the rest of us could only dream of! We took a run of the mill, almost worn out die error and turned it into CASH! and got the top grading services to buy into it! I don't care if it's an error or a variety, or a mint workers snot on the coin. She walked the walk and did what the whack-job couldn't with the PMM! So leave her be! In a year or so you'll be able to buy them in the sale bins, unless she talks PCGS into adding them into the registry!! >>
Marty's funny!
I calls them like I sees them!! >>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>This has been a very interesting thread. I remember a whack-job forum member who got bammed for pushing the pissing minuteman die crack! I argued with him that is was just a stinking die crack. If neptune make millions on the stupid buffalo, more friggan' power to her! There have been people here trying to get PCGS and NGC to attribute the Bugs Bunny Franklin and still nothing. If neptune got PCGS to put her SB on the slab, more friggan power to her! She got away with something the rest of us could only dream of! We took a run of the mill, almost worn out die error and turned it into CASH! and got the top grading services to buy into it! I don't care if it's an error or a variety, or a mint workers snot on the coin. She walked the walk and did what the whack-job couldn't with the PMM! So leave her be! In a year or so you'll be able to buy them in the sale bins, unless she talks PCGS into adding them into the registry!! >>
Marty's funny!
I calls them like I sees them!! >>
>>
That was weird.
(oh, were we supposed to be talking about "name calling"?)
<< <i>Speaking of play calling, Big Ben has been given more latitude this season with audibles and improvisation.
(oh, were we supposed to be talking about "name calling"?) >>
This IS about name calling! They call him "Big Ben"!! Isn't that name calling???
I thought this was a thread of someone trying to reach out for help about name calling?
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
Is that true?? I heard last that cowher wasn't planning on giving ben more pass plays, but was going to keep relying on the running game..... but I could easily be out of the loop.....
<< <i>Speaking of play calling, Big Ben has been given more latitude this season with audibles and improvisation.
Is that true?? I heard last that cowher wasn't planning on giving ben more pass plays, but was going to keep relying on the running game..... but I could easily be out of the loop.....
I read that very thing!
Neptune was informing us about a letter she wants to send in criticism of an "elitist" evaluation of certain error coins which contribute to her income.
Personally I enjoyed Neptune's letter. I don't agree with all of it but it's civilized and does raise issues that need to be brought up for the good of our hobby and the good of the profession of some of us.
Before going any further, let me clarify that I don't collect error coins of any kind. Also I am not interested in coins, stamps or other things that get "promoted" on eBay, TV, magazines or any place else. I'll buy things in many places including eBay if those "things" relate to a specific need of mine, if that something "fits" my quality requirements AND if the price is right.
Cladking said << Certainly we should all collect what we find interesting and no one should be told he's doing it wrong since it's impossible to do it wrong if you're having fun or learning something. >>
Neptune ends with << I think the more knowledgeable error collectors should quit being so darn elitist with the new collectors. >>
I don't think it is a matter of belonging to an elite or not. The concern everybody has or should have is that excess hype is dangerous for the hobby and for the professionals and amateurs that deal with the coin collecting hobby.
Excess hype can group all kinds of surreptitious coin things under a "not so honorable" flag or some other classification that "sounds" negative and "looks" negative. It drives people away. Let's not mix things up here.
The fact is that if people get ripped off the noise factor is much more effective than the behavior of the tons of honest and reputable dealers, auction houses and collectors around.
I don't think we will see many threads on how honest dealer A is or dealer B is. Nor do I think that such a thread would have much following. It just would not be "sensational enough".
When there is a "fight" or a "potential" fight, then we'll all read about it and some of us will join in too. Who can truly resist the attraction of a good scrap?
In the 1870's and later there were people selling the Brooklyn Bridge to unwary newbies visiting New York City. In the 1880's there were people selling gold-something plated 1883 nickels as $5 dollar gold pieces because some wise guy (or wise guys) at the U.S. Mint had thought it smart or artistic or "elitist" to make 5 cent pieces without placing the word "cents" anywhere on the coin and using the Roman V to represent the number five.
Are these modern error coins to be classified with similar forms of skullduggery? I don't think so. You have to be at least 18 (as far as I know) to bid at auction or use a credit card. The "error" is there to be seen even if not always that obvious. The grading service (or services) have given the patent of authenticity to those coins. The most I would have to say about such coins is "Go figure?!".
There will always be people that believe in get-rich quick schemes. If people buy things thinking that they are going to "make a killing", is the seller exclusively at fault or can some blame be put on the lack of scruples of the buyer as well? People that bought Argentina bonds with double figure interest rates should at least have "wondered" why the offer was so much higher than other offerings.
Neptune is supplying a service in answer to a market request for that service. Using a means such as eBay the price paid will eventually be what Mr. Somebody will consider in line with his or her tastes and his or her wallet. The issue of "fun" applied to a commercial
I would probably suggest buying other kinds of coins if I were asked about it. The point is that generally neither I nor others are being asked about what to buy.
Often newbies view things as "easy" and scoff about how people with more experience than they have are "boring", "dull", "a pain", etc. When I started buying coins I was no different. I paid the price of inexperience as I am sure most everybody else has. And to be truthful I am sure that I will make more mistakes as time goes on. Hopefully every once in w while I'll get some things right too.
Power corrupts and hurts people that don't have it. Those that wield power relish it and thrive well because of it.
I think that as long as nobody gets ripped off, most sales activities are acceptable. Nobody is forcing anybody to buy anything.
This sort of error coin collecting is a fashion or fad today that will either pass or stay on.
<< In a year or so you'll be able to buy them in the sale bins, unless she talks PCGS into adding them into the registry!! >>
Time will tell.
I'll continue with my Morgan Dollars and other coins that I enjoy.
Collecting since the 1980's
Morgan Dollars Circ. Strikes
- Basic Set - Varieties - Prooflike Basic Set - Date Set
- Carson City - Early S Mint Short Set - Mintmark Type Set
Morgan Dollars Proof
- Basic Set - Varieties
Peace Circ.