Would you buy from an online retailer that has a lot of pieces in inventory denoted as "cleaned

Longacre

I was checking out one website with a lot of raw inventory. A relatively high percentage of the items were noted as "cleaned". All of the coins in inventory were uncertified.

Would you buy from a retailer like this? What comfort do you have that an item that is not denoted as "cleaned" merely slipped through the cracks and is, in fact, also a cleaned piece? Or does a consumer just take the risk in buying any uncertified coin that it may be cleaned, whether it is disclosed or not?

Steve27

I go to a local coin show twice a month where several dealers have harshly cleaned coins. They make no reference to it, and they price them as if they perfect. A guy who goes out of his way to separate the cleaned ones should be applauded. I would have no problem buying from him.

Heywood

Good question.

while the first reaction may be "at least he discloses it" and may give some comfort, your second thought about the cleaned ones that slipped through would also be a concern.

I think the answer would ultimately depend on the return policy. Even if there is a slight premium for the approval service.

kranky

As long as there's a return privilege, that's fine.

BillJones

Usually I would not bother because "cleaned" is not my thing UNLESS it's a hard to find item that I rarely see. It's similar to the situation years ago when there was a copper dealer who dealt pretty much in rough, corroded copper. He was wll known in the field, and a lot of people, who had smaller budgets, worked with him, but his stock was not my thing.

Usually I'd say if guy is willing to own up to the fact that a lot of his coins are cleaned, he is probably running an honest business in his nitch.

AlaBill

I think it is laudable to distinguish between cleaned and non-cleaned coins.

I would buy with a return policy and carefully make my own decision about purchased coins being cleaned. With any appearance of being cleaned, back they go. Any problems with the return policy and no more purchases by me.

AgMe

Sure, as long as they had a decent return policy.

~g

ziggy29

Depends on the seller. For example, the raw coins Collector-USA (Dale Williams) offers on eBay are often cleaned. And they're just about always disclosed, even when the cleaning is minor. And the grading tends to look very accurate. And as I'd trust their return policy, I'd not worry about it.

In other cases, I'd be quite a bit more wary.

au58

Dick Osburn is a good example. Denotes lots of coins as cleaned. Provides peace of mind when perusing the inventory.

roadrunner

Typically an inventory consisting of many cleaned coins (attributed or not) is a warning sign. I usually won't even bother. I want someone who avoids cleaned stuff and is looking for better quality
(even for rare dates there are exceptions...but not many). Same comment for off brand slabs.

roadrunner

stev32k

My limited experience is that the majority of raw coins over 50 years old have been cleaned. It's very hard to find non-modern original coins that are not in holders. It has got to the point (for me at least) that I assume every raw coin AU or better has been cleaned. If they are good no problem coins they are going to in holders because of the increased selling price compared to raw.

OKbustchaser

<< <i>My limited experience is that the majority of raw coins over 50 years old have been cleaned. It's very hard to find non-modern original coins that are not in holders. It has got to the point (for me at least) that I assume every raw coin AU or better has been cleaned. If they are good no problem coins they are going to in holders because of the increased selling price compared to raw. >>



You will also find that the majority of SLABED "non-modern original" coins have been cleaned. The question shouldn't be
"Has this coin been cleaned" --you can pretty well take it for granted that if it is a non-Morgan dating prior to 1900 it has been--it should be"Does this coin look like it has been cleaned?" or "Does this look like a 100+ year old coin?"

Jim

AlaBill

<< <i> My limited experience is that the majority of raw coins over 50 years old have been cleaned. It's very hard to find non-modern original coins that are not in holders. It has got to the point (for me at least) that I assume every raw coin AU or better has been cleaned. >>



This is probably contentious but with my limited experience I now think...

... that the majority of ALL COINS over 50 years old have been cleaned to some extent. The amount off cleaning that has been done determines the slabbability of the coin by the TPGs. Too much cleaning in their minds equals a body bag. Not quite this much, maybe a lower grade. Less that this grades as normal.

I say this from personal experience examining coins through a zoom, stereo microscope usually using powers of 3X to 10X and pure halogen light. This setup allows you to examine the coin, using both eyes, magnified enough to determine if there are any hairlines due to cleaning or anything else. Raising the power to 8-10X easily allows you to determine if marks on the coins are hairlines or are die polish marks. You must view the coin from all directions and you must tilt it properly to allow the light to show the hairlines. They will not show from some directions and they will not show if the lighting is not properly adjusted.

I know I am going to get killed for talking about using a microscope, but I am not using it to grade the coin. It is useful if you want to determine if it is cleaned or not. From my examination, mostly in the AU to lower MS grades, I find the majority of coins to have cleaning hairlines and I have mostly slabbed coins.

I used to say I would not buy cleaned coins, but after my experience I now believe to complete any reasonable collectible series, this is an impossible task.

It appears to me that the TPGs determine for us their level of unacceptable cleaning and I find this varies by grading company and when it was graded. Some days they pass through and some days they are body bagged.

291fifth

At least he is admitting that it is cleaned. Perhaps he just bought a collection that contained many cleaned coins. Such collections are quite common.

Robgetty

As long as there is a return policy, I'd do it.

I agree with the comment about Dick Osburn. Plenty of scarce, rare dates in his inventory where
a little damage or being cleaned is expected, and differentiating between problem free and
cleaned coins is helpful.

jdimmick

I agree with some of the above comments.

When I see a large listing of cleaned and/or off brand slabs in a dealers inventory, that tends to give me the felling that this dealer has a tendency to buy and sell marginal coins or lower end coins. It makes me question whether he /she knows what a good coin is or whether they have the eye for quality coins when they see them. ( It shouldnt but it does.) I feel the same way at shows, several times when I walk by a case that's full of off brand slabs, I keep walking. Its not a good idea as thier may be a good coin or two intermixed in the bunch, but it just gets me overly cautious??

I myself on ocassion have to take some marginal low end coins in to be able to get the good items, and some I blow out on the bay disclosed, others I sell in the local club auction (where they buy that type junk anyway)

jim

RYK

I would rather it be disclosed as cleaned than passed off as original. Dick Osburn is a good example of a reputable dealer who sells cleaned coins and discloses it. It is likely that some of his "cleaned" coins would end up slabbed. In a word, depending on the circumstances, I would indeed purchase coins from a seller who has "cleaned" coins in his inventory.

KurtHorn

Let's face it lots of early type stuff was cleaned. Maybe 100 years ago and re-toned, but much of it was cleaned. A dealer who takes notice of the cleaning is at least trying to be honest. Why would he try then to deceive on another coin?

There may be many other reasons not to bid on this guy's stuff. Being honest would not be one that would keep me away.

DJC

<< <i>Depends on the seller. For example, the raw coins Collector-USA (Dale Williams) offers on eBay are often cleaned. And they're just about always disclosed, even when the cleaning is minor. And the grading tends to look very accurate. And as I'd trust their return policy, I'd not worry about it.

In other cases, I'd be quite a bit more wary. >>



Perfect example. I've purchased many coins from Collector-USA (Dale Williams), and they've always been dead on in their assessment. But in your scenario, Longacre, I don't know.... probably not. I don't mind lightly cleaned pieces, especially on harder to find coins, but they better be graded, noted and priced as cleaned. I've seen a few who pull that "I'm honest 'cause I labeled these as cleaned" but neglected to mention the tougher to detect cleanings, especially on the more expensive pieces. Tread carefully.

Longacre

Regarding Dale Williams/Collector USA--- I think they are a great outfit, very reputable, and I highly reccomend them.

Millertime

<< <i>Regarding Dale Williams/Collector USA--- I think they are a great outfit, very reputable, and I highly reccomend them. >>



How about a link to this eBay seller please. I'm always looking for eBay sellers that are reputable.

Millertime