I know (of) both Shylock and Snow -- Shylock through this forum and offline communications, and Snow through industry exposure. I know neither very well, but I think I can make these comments fairly:
1. Many detractors and supporters of either party do so based on very limited exposure. 2. Many people here seem not to now how to properly assess dealers; "all that glitters is not gold" comes to mind. 3. Paul may have an agenda, but why do folks automatically presume the negative? Nearly everything we do or say has an agenda. Duh! 4. Based on limited exposure to Paul, I believe he's a good guy. This opinion is based primarily on his track record of being here to contribute, not to troll for business. It is also backed by offline communications.
As an aside, I wonder if Snow's "Eagle Eye" assignation comes with a warranty? Otherwise, how is that any different from another dealer -- say BW or Andy S. -- saying that a certain coin was exceptional in either grade or eye appeal?
<< <i>Make your comments here ManofCoins for all of us to read.. the juiciest forum posts are hidden in PMs. >>
>>>
Oh yeah? Don't you need to turn on your PM option first to know that?
Of course, your comments ring true to an extent but dealers ALSO like to look "positive" in the eyes of posters as well and that is where you need to use your "advantage."
But then again, you need a pm option to be able to do that!
Posts: 4464 Joined: Feb 2001 Sunday June 19, 2005 5:59 PM
Shylock; I agree that Rick could, should have and probably would have handled things differently had he not gone through his difficult ordeal.
But there is hope for both of you. He is a gentleman and if you guys can work things out he will treat you like gold, uh copper/bronze. Go forward together.
Oreville: I appreciate your thoughtful reply but Rick's a shrewd coin dealer who knows his craft. He posts here when it suits him. One thing I've developed a knack for, as many forum members have, is a feel for the motives of dealers who post. Unfortunately many dealers come on board only when it suits them, the same way a free Coin World ad would attract them. Otherwise they can't be bothered.
Let me beat a dead horse one more time. Compare these facts to Rick's posts:
He alludes that he did me a favor by selling me this coin to begin with. It was listed in his inventory at a 300% markup. I bought it straight off his inventory. I'm still trying to imagine his regret about that. He's no dummy, he would have sent it straight in for uprade before taking the trouble to photo and post it on his site if his regret is genuine. This rings very untrue.
He posts about his regret about me not offering it back to him. Rick use to Photoseal ICG coins before he realized they were pissing their reputation away in modern high grades. Not his fault, all the ICG IH's I've seen Rick PS have been dead on. But my experience trying to sell two rare date ICG Photosealed coins back to him were not pleasant experiences. The last person I thought about offering this ANACS coin back to was Rick -- I could only imagine the "new" problems this coin had acquired.
I have no problem with dealers trying to squeeze maximum profit from their consignments. If I had coins to sell those are the type of dealers I'd consign them to. But when they go out of their way to misrepresent their coins -- and transactions -- on the forum I take that personally. That's what drove me nuts about this 1859/1859. It had little to do with the stupid coin and a lot to do with the poor display of human nature that resulted from it.
I hope I know Paul well enough to make this comment and I have had the pleasure of spending a considerable amount of time at Rick's table at FUN a few years back getting a lesson from Larry which was one of the most interesting and enjoyable times I have spent discussing Flyers and IHC. I spent an evening having dinner with Paul, Rick and Tim (lakesammam or something or other), which was a blast.
As a collector and in no way a dealer, I can relate to Paul's refrain in these threads on the subject matter we are discussing and would suggest that we avoid making this a personal discussion but learn about customer....dealer relations and what to expect and what to be cautious about.
Many years I made some wrong headed decisions about collecting and selling, given 20 20 hindsight. It was a very expensive lesson to learn that one it comes down to crunch time, i.e. the bottom line a dealer will either by necessity of running a business or for other reasons size you up and get what they think they can get. This comment is not meant to be a criticism but a comment on the reality of running this kind of business. It's not immoral, its amoral. Granted some dealers will take more from you and others less. Not going into a discussion of the morality of this, because in the final analysis its always buyer beware. In other words there is just as much responsibility on the buyers part to know what he/she is spending their hard earned dollars for. I think it would be a wise thing for dealers to remember that it is hard earned money and conduct their business that way.
My point is simple, don't be naive enough to believe that any one has your best interest at heart, regardless of your relationship with them. Sooner or later you will wonder if you were taken advantage or not. Know it will happen and be prepared to deal with it. One way is to relate to others what happened. I hear so much whispering on borse floors about this subject and while it is painful here to read some of the comments, I have no problem with the laundry being aired here, just hoping it stays away from being too personal.
"My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko, Big Moose, Cardinal.
Since you dont have your PM on, I feel good about sending this to you so everyone can read it!!
Someday we will meet and I will buy you dinner!!! Your "exposure" to coins that had earlier "bargain" prices, or had upgrades, etc., is very informative for collectors, other dealers, buyers, etc. I am all for this type of exposure. It is still and always will be a buyer beware scenario in EVERY transaction whether coins or not.
What you have done with this 1859 cent can be done on a TON of coins though. I may not be as good as you at tracking down coins from the past, and what "new slab or grade or color" they are now, but with the auction sites with their prices realized archives, and pics to go with it, it has allowed the CONSUMER (whoever it may be) with more education of coins they are interested in.
But I have a hard time EXPOSING the (high) markups on them. I will not (expose) dealers that are trying for the higher markup sales after I know that they just got the coin from ANR, B & M or wherever. I can't take the chance to burn a bridge with any dealer. If it is a coin I was outbid on, and then shows up with a 40% markup a couple days later on a dealers sight, I will keep my mouth shut - I could have bought it if I wanted to keep bidding. I will know its background, but it is up to other buyers to do their homework.
Some day, I will want them to help me get the most for my coins if I want to sell any, and they might just get a better deal with an auction house then if I did it myself. I.E., if I just wanted to sell SOME of my coins, and the total amount would not warrant any major "seller breaks" by myself.
EVERY coin I have purchased, I know quite a bit about where it came from. Thanks especially to archives. I know I could have bought Judd 1992 Half Dollar at ANR at FUN in January. I new in U.S. Patterns, (thanks Andy Lustig) it was graded the highest available, but was "dipped" a bit. (EEWW, hate that word). I ended up paying $8000 more for it then just 6 months ago, but money was into other "deals" outside of coins, and couldnt do it. But I wanted it. Furthermore, I am still chicken with bidding. Still amazed that the old saying "Have to be willing to not be shy and pay more for the rarities you really want" is what I have to do. (A phrase or similar to it is what Tradedollarnut says and does, and Laura Tells me!!!).
My modern-day idol is Laura who seems to with Bruce have the power to buy anything they want. I know they are not BILLIONAIRES, but it must be fun none-the-less!!! My other idol is another female - MRS. Norweb, who said, "it's all about the coins, isn't it?".
So keep up the good work, Paul, in a non-biased manner. It will help to try to place the dealer and the collector eating at the same table.
I argee that Paul should do much more with PM's than using the open forum to air his complaints, and then complain about it being an open forum.
I put the entire transaction history up on the message board in an earlier post, including the fact that I paid $8,000 for the coin in question. I listed it for $15,000 because of a 4 year old auction record for a similar coin. Paul complained at the price (this is what started this thing).
Now, since I fully discosed what I paid for it in that earlier post, I felt it was not wothwhile listing it for $15,000 and reduced it to $8,500. Now Paul is complaining about the large price difference. Is there nothing that will satisfy him?
I see that he is busy trashing me by using multiple posts, twisting things to his own advantage. For example, he said:
I have no problem with dealers trying to squeeze maximum profit from their consignments. If I had coins to sell those are the type of dealers I'd consign them to. But when they go out of their way to misrepresent their coins -- and transactions -- on the forum I take that personally. That's what drove me nuts about this 1859/1859. It had little to do with the stupid coin and a lot to do with the poor display of human nature that resulted from it.
I did not misrepresent anything. I put all the information here on the boards. When I was told that Paul was knocking my coin here (while I was just back from my first grafting operation) I said to myself "It's no big deal, I'll let it go". But when I saw how he listed my coin without the decency of removing my tag-line (which would make it an anonymous coin) and the way the story was twisted to make him look good and me look bad, I had to post a rebuttle. The whole thing was very mean-spirited on Paul's part. All I wanted to do was present the facts from my perspective.
First thing: We are all in agreement that listing a coin off the internet and adding something from it's history is OK. But doing it in a personal way that hurts the owner, especially a fellow board member, is just plain wrong.
Second thing: Using the message board to continue to personally attack me is wrong as well. Paul's has a grudge to settle bacause I "Outted" him on the Fly-In Club website erasure. I'm sure he's more willing to talk about this 1859 than the Fly-In club web site. I held off saying anything about this despicable action, and no one would have known about it from me. But when he starts throwing mud, and doesn't stop, I feel I need to show the spirit of the man behind the posts.
Third thing: Just an hour ago, after re-evaluated the price of the 1859, and deciding to reduce the price, it sold to a good customer. At $8,500 it was a bargain (CherryPicker's lists it at $10,000) Thanks Paul. I guess I did price it too high to begin with.
Now another thing: OK, I am a dealer. I make my living buying and selling coins. Paul is a collector/ebay dealer. You must think of what he did to me as if it was your coin, possibly on ebay:
"Look, here's sos-and-so from this board selling a coin on ebay. I think his coin is junk! what do you think?" Would you like it? Would you call the poster on it? I'm just sorry Paul doesn't recieve PM's.
Bt the way The Eagle Eye Photo seal is backed up with my high bid, or a higher offer. I photo seal the coins because I want them back. The ICG photo seal coins have a resale problem, (not because of the photo seal) so when they are offered I usually am thinking of the crossover expense. I am proud the photoseal program and that after 10 years there has not been any change in my grading standards. There was a price to pay, though. I can't buy ugly coins that don't make photo seal This eliminates 80% of the coins on any given bourse floor). It makes it tough to buy coins unless I outbid BWRC, Legend, Angel, Schweitz and any collectors for the nice coins.
But I have a hard time EXPOSING the (high) markups on them. I will not (expose) dealers that are trying for the higher markup sales after I know that they just got the coin from ANR, B & M or wherever. I can't take the chance to burn a bridge with any dealer. If it is a coin I was outbid on, and then shows up with a 40% markup a couple days later on a dealers sight, I will keep my mouth shut - I could have bought it if I wanted to keep bidding. I will know its background, but it is up to other buyers to do their homework.
Lloyd -- a very honest post that I truly appreciate. Well said. If I were a collector still in the mix I'd be sitting on my posting hands like many here do. And as many fellow dealers do for that matter, which I also understand.
The most honest responses to posts like this are in emails, PMs, or when you take a forum member out for dinner. This a great place to talk about great coins but not always the best place to talk about questionable coins. It's gotten to the point where discussing the latter isn't worth the trouble -- unless they're obvious.
Thanks Michael, Nic (the smartest coinguy I've ever met), IrishMike, EVP & RYK. Some daring replies in this thread which I truly appreciate.
The worst thing about this post was my getting down on Mgoodm3 & ManOfCoins. I love Mark's photos as much as anyone here, I think my desire for him to add some controversy to his posts got the better of me. But that's not what he's all about. When he replied to my thread with nothing but an image of a coin he bought from Rick, well, that rubbed me the wrong way. Say something! But I understand that and I truly apologize.
ManOfCoins is a poster I've always admired here, I'm sorry you got thrown in the mix. This is a thread that got very personal to me and I should have backed off about 5 posts ago. Please accept my apogogy as well.
I haven't read Rick's "out" of me on the Fly-In website, I won't go there. Maybe that's a good thing, I'm already pissed off enough. I spent the better part of two years of my free time putting the previous incarnation of the Fly-In site together. It was a labor of love. Some of you here can attest to that -- Lakesammman provided an incredible amount of images for the attribution page which I linked here many times. The last Longacre's Ledger I received was over a year ago -- it seems my membership expired despite the fact I was paying for the club's website. The dealer who profited most by it was too busy selling coins to keep up with the club's details.
If it makes you fell any better, I did invite abuse by my initial post in this thread. I was just frustrated that the issue had come back. I was hoping that things would quiet down a bit. FWIW, I like the coin history posts you do, that one was a study in unfortunate timing and spiraled out of control.
I've tried, I really have. I've read every post of this thread in essentially real-time. I've read every post of the first 1859/1859 thread in essentially real-time. I've read Rick's comeback announcement only twice; when it was first listed and then much later on. I just don't get it.
I understand the details, the chronology and the parties involved, but the source of the depth, breadth and veracity of the anger doesn't add up to me.
We go way back together, but something happened here that I'm just at a loss to understand. I'm a collector very similar to you; some coins have made me money, some coins have lost me money, some coins have made money for others after me, some coins I regret passing on and others I regret selling. I've never been intimidated by a dealer, collector, forum member or board administrator, I've always been willing to tangle when appropriate and I tell it like I see it on the boards.
Here, however, I'm not seeing a coin dispute. Here, I'm seeing a coin dispute as metaphor for a divorce.
Generally, I try not to post to a thread unless I have something constructive to add. The enigma that has been this last week has left me reading without typing. Now, I am moved to type. Maybe I'm a jerk, maybe I don't know what I'm talking about, but I'm not stupid.
I'm sending this to you also via your listed email address so that you may respond, if you feel like it, in any venue you choose.
I made a post about a coin both Rick and I owned, in an ANACS 63 slab, and posed a question about him offering it for 15K in its new NGC holder. I have questions about its originality and think ANACS did too. It's a two sentence post.
Halfway through the thread it's mentioned Rick has suffered a serious grease fire burn. I cringe, could care less about the stupid coin and kick myself for it's bad timing. After all the Rick Snow suckup threads I've posted here I make one provocative thread, linking one of his coins, and now I wish I could swallow it like an olive in a martini.
Rick makes his return thread and uses it to trash me in a very unprofessional manner. He states his regret for selling it to me, the stupidity of my resale on EBay, and professess I owed it to him to offer it back to him. Oh, and thanks for all the best wishes.
Not much more to explain. I certainly should have handled it much better.
<< <i>ttt, simply to remind the board how this works. >>
Yes, now instead of stories about "how did that crap coin get into a 65 holder" will will have stories about "how did that messed with coin get by the consortium"?
Comments
Latest purchase...
<< <i>
<< <i>Looks like we need to take up a collection for Lloyd!
I will match Russ' contribution. >>
That was pretty safe.
Russ, NCNE >>
No kidding! He could have said he would "double Russ' contribution" and it still would have been safe and the same amount
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
1. Many detractors and supporters of either party do so based on very limited exposure.
2. Many people here seem not to now how to properly assess dealers; "all that glitters is not gold" comes to mind.
3. Paul may have an agenda, but why do folks automatically presume the negative? Nearly everything we do or say has an agenda. Duh!
4. Based on limited exposure to Paul, I believe he's a good guy. This opinion is based primarily on his track record of being here to contribute, not to troll for business. It is also backed by offline communications.
As an aside, I wonder if Snow's "Eagle Eye" assignation comes with a warranty? Otherwise, how is that any different from another dealer -- say BW or Andy S. -- saying that a certain coin was exceptional in either grade or eye appeal?
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
<< <i>Make your comments here ManofCoins for all of us to read.. the juiciest forum posts are hidden in PMs. >>
oh yeah? have you been reading mine???
"Senorita HepKitty"
"I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
<<<<<<
<< <i>Make your comments here ManofCoins for all of us to read.. the juiciest forum posts are hidden in PMs. >>
>>>
Oh yeah? Don't you need to turn on your PM option first to know that?
Of course, your comments ring true to an extent but dealers ALSO like to look "positive" in the eyes of posters as well and that is where you need to use your "advantage."
But then again, you need a pm option to be able to do that!
Wow ... busy here of late
My 1866 Philly Mint Set
<< <i>OK shylock, back to coins.
Latest purchase...
That is UBER COOL!!! Man, there are just so many cool coins I'd have to buy if I were mega-rich!!
shylock
Expert Collector
Posts: 4464
Joined: Feb 2001
Sunday June 19, 2005 5:59 PM
Shylock; I agree that Rick could, should have and probably would have handled things differently had he not gone through his difficult ordeal.
But there is hope for both of you. He is a gentleman and if you guys can work things out he will treat you like gold, uh copper/bronze. Go forward together.
Oreville: I appreciate your thoughtful reply but Rick's a shrewd coin dealer who knows his craft. He posts here when it suits him. One thing I've developed a knack for, as many forum members have, is a feel for the motives of dealers who post. Unfortunately many dealers come on board only when it suits them, the same way a free Coin World ad would attract them. Otherwise they can't be bothered.
Let me beat a dead horse one more time. Compare these facts to Rick's posts:
He alludes that he did me a favor by selling me this coin to begin with. It was listed in his inventory at a 300% markup. I bought it straight off his inventory. I'm still trying to imagine his regret about that. He's no dummy, he would have sent it straight in for uprade before taking the trouble to photo and post it on his site if his regret is genuine. This rings very untrue.
He posts about his regret about me not offering it back to him. Rick use to Photoseal ICG coins before he realized they were pissing their reputation away in modern high grades. Not his fault, all the ICG IH's I've seen Rick PS have been dead on. But my experience trying to sell two rare date ICG Photosealed coins back to him were not pleasant experiences. The last person I thought about offering this ANACS coin back to was Rick -- I could only imagine the "new" problems this coin had acquired.
I have no problem with dealers trying to squeeze maximum profit from their consignments. If I had coins to sell those are the type of dealers I'd consign them to. But when they go out of their way to misrepresent their coins -- and transactions -- on the forum I take that personally. That's what drove me nuts about this 1859/1859. It had little to do with the stupid coin and a lot to do with the poor display of human nature that resulted from it.
As a collector and in no way a dealer, I can relate to Paul's refrain in these threads on the subject matter we are discussing and would suggest that we avoid making this a personal discussion but learn about customer....dealer relations and what to expect and what to be cautious about.
Many years I made some wrong headed decisions about collecting and selling, given 20 20 hindsight. It was a very expensive lesson to learn that one it comes down to crunch time, i.e. the bottom line a dealer will either by necessity of running a business or for other reasons size you up and get what they think they can get. This comment is not meant to be a criticism but a comment on the reality of running this kind of business. It's not immoral, its amoral. Granted some dealers will take more from you and others less. Not going into a discussion of the morality of this, because in the final analysis its always buyer beware. In other words there is just as much responsibility on the buyers part to know what he/she is spending their hard earned dollars for. I think it would be a wise thing for dealers to remember that it is hard earned money and conduct their business that way.
My point is simple, don't be naive enough to believe that any one has your best interest at heart, regardless of your relationship with them. Sooner or later you will wonder if you were taken advantage or not. Know it will happen and be prepared to deal with it. One way is to relate to others what happened. I hear so much whispering on borse floors about this subject and while it is painful here to read some of the comments, I have no problem with the laundry being aired here, just hoping it stays away from being too personal.
Tim (lakesammam or something or other),
<< <i>Hey Mike, I'm hurt.....
Tim (lakesammam or something or other), >>
Sorry Tim at my age any word longer than 4 letters and not in spellcheck is too much of a challenge.
Since you dont have your PM on, I feel good about sending this to you so everyone can read it!!
Someday we will meet and I will buy you dinner!!! Your "exposure" to coins that had earlier "bargain" prices, or had upgrades, etc., is very informative for collectors, other dealers, buyers, etc. I am all for this type of exposure. It is still and always will be a buyer beware scenario in EVERY transaction whether coins or not.
What you have done with this 1859 cent can be done on a TON of coins though. I may not be as good as you at tracking down coins from the past, and what "new slab or grade or color" they are now, but with the auction sites with their prices realized archives, and pics to go with it, it has allowed the CONSUMER (whoever it may be) with more education of coins they are interested in.
But I have a hard time EXPOSING the (high) markups on them. I will not (expose) dealers that are trying for the higher markup sales after I know that they just got the coin from ANR, B & M or wherever. I can't take the chance to burn a bridge with any dealer. If it is a coin I was outbid on, and then shows up with a 40% markup a couple days later on a dealers sight, I will keep my mouth shut - I could have bought it if I wanted to keep bidding. I will know its background, but it is up to other buyers to do their homework.
Some day, I will want them to help me get the most for my coins if I want to sell any, and they might just get a better deal with an auction house then if I did it myself. I.E., if I just wanted to sell SOME of my coins, and the total amount would not warrant any major "seller breaks" by myself.
EVERY coin I have purchased, I know quite a bit about where it came from. Thanks especially to archives. I know I could have bought Judd 1992 Half Dollar at ANR at FUN in January. I new in U.S. Patterns, (thanks Andy Lustig) it was graded the highest available, but was "dipped" a bit. (EEWW, hate that word). I ended up paying $8000 more for it then just 6 months ago, but money was into other "deals" outside of coins, and couldnt do it. But I wanted it. Furthermore, I am still chicken with bidding. Still amazed that the old saying "Have to be willing to not be shy and pay more for the rarities you really want" is what I have to do. (A phrase or similar to it is what Tradedollarnut says and does, and Laura Tells me!!!).
My modern-day idol is Laura who seems to with Bruce have the power to buy anything they want. I know they are not BILLIONAIRES, but it must be fun none-the-less!!! My other idol is another female - MRS. Norweb, who said, "it's all about the coins, isn't it?".
So keep up the good work, Paul, in a non-biased manner. It will help to try to place the dealer and the collector eating at the same table.
And will get rid of the WANNABES!!!
I put the entire transaction history up on the message board in an earlier post, including the fact that I paid $8,000 for the coin in question. I listed it for $15,000 because of a 4 year old auction record for a similar coin. Paul complained at the price (this is what started this thing).
Now, since I fully discosed what I paid for it in that earlier post, I felt it was not wothwhile listing it for $15,000 and reduced it to $8,500. Now Paul is complaining about the large price difference. Is there nothing that will satisfy him?
I see that he is busy trashing me by using multiple posts, twisting things to his own advantage. For example, he said:
I have no problem with dealers trying to squeeze maximum profit from their consignments. If I had coins to sell those are the type of dealers I'd consign them to. But when they go out of their way to misrepresent their coins -- and transactions -- on the forum I take that personally. That's what drove me nuts about this 1859/1859. It had little to do with the stupid coin and a lot to do with the poor display of human nature that resulted from it.
I did not misrepresent anything. I put all the information here on the boards. When I was told that Paul was knocking my coin here (while I was just back from my first grafting operation) I said to myself "It's no big deal, I'll let it go". But when I saw how he listed my coin without the decency of removing my tag-line (which would make it an anonymous coin) and the way the story was twisted to make him look good and me look bad, I had to post a rebuttle. The whole thing was very mean-spirited on Paul's part. All I wanted to do was present the facts from my perspective.
First thing: We are all in agreement that listing a coin off the internet and adding something from it's history is OK. But doing it in a personal way that hurts the owner, especially a fellow board member, is just plain wrong.
Second thing: Using the message board to continue to personally attack me is wrong as well. Paul's has a grudge to settle bacause I "Outted" him on the Fly-In Club website erasure. I'm sure he's more willing to talk about this 1859 than the Fly-In club web site. I held off saying anything about this despicable action, and no one would have known about it from me. But when he starts throwing mud, and doesn't stop, I feel I need to show the spirit of the man behind the posts.
Third thing: Just an hour ago, after re-evaluated the price of the 1859, and deciding to reduce the price, it sold to a good customer. At $8,500 it was a bargain (CherryPicker's lists it at $10,000) Thanks Paul. I guess I did price it too high to begin with.
Now another thing: OK, I am a dealer. I make my living buying and selling coins. Paul is a collector/ebay dealer. You must think of what he did to me as if it was your coin, possibly on ebay:
"Look, here's sos-and-so from this board selling a coin on ebay. I think his coin is junk! what do you think?" Would you like it? Would you call the poster on it? I'm just sorry Paul doesn't recieve PM's.
Lloyd -- a very honest post that I truly appreciate. Well said. If I were a collector still in the mix I'd be sitting on my posting hands like many here do. And as many fellow dealers do for that matter, which I also understand.
The most honest responses to posts like this are in emails, PMs, or when you take a forum member out for dinner. This a great place to talk about great coins but not always the best place to talk about questionable coins. It's gotten to the point where discussing the latter isn't worth the trouble -- unless they're obvious.
Thanks Michael, Nic (the smartest coinguy I've ever met), IrishMike, EVP & RYK. Some daring replies in this thread which I truly appreciate.
The worst thing about this post was my getting down on Mgoodm3 & ManOfCoins. I love Mark's photos as much as anyone here, I think my desire for him to add some controversy to his posts got the better of me. But that's not what he's all about. When he replied to my thread with nothing but an image of a coin he bought from Rick, well, that rubbed me the wrong way. Say something! But I understand that and I truly apologize.
ManOfCoins is a poster I've always admired here, I'm sorry you got thrown in the mix. This is a thread that got very personal to me and I should have backed off about 5 posts ago. Please accept my apogogy as well.
I haven't read Rick's "out" of me on the Fly-In website, I won't go there. Maybe that's a good thing, I'm already pissed off enough. I spent the better part of two years of my free time putting the previous incarnation of the Fly-In site together. It was a labor of love. Some of you here can attest to that -- Lakesammman provided an incredible amount of images for the attribution page which I linked here many times. The last Longacre's Ledger I received was over a year ago -- it seems my membership expired despite the fact I was paying for the club's website. The dealer who profited most by it was too busy selling coins to keep up with the club's details.
I've tried, I really have. I've read every post of this thread in essentially real-time. I've read every post of the first 1859/1859 thread in essentially real-time. I've read Rick's comeback announcement only twice; when it was first listed and then much later on. I just don't get it.
I understand the details, the chronology and the parties involved, but the source of the depth, breadth and veracity of the anger doesn't add up to me.
We go way back together, but something happened here that I'm just at a loss to understand. I'm a collector very similar to you; some coins have made me money, some coins have lost me money, some coins have made money for others after me, some coins I regret passing on and others I regret selling. I've never been intimidated by a dealer, collector, forum member or board administrator, I've always been willing to tangle when appropriate and I tell it like I see it on the boards.
Here, however, I'm not seeing a coin dispute. Here, I'm seeing a coin dispute as metaphor for a divorce.
Generally, I try not to post to a thread unless I have something constructive to add. The enigma that has been this last week has left me reading without typing. Now, I am moved to type. Maybe I'm a jerk, maybe I don't know what I'm talking about, but I'm not stupid.
I'm sending this to you also via your listed email address so that you may respond, if you feel like it, in any venue you choose.
Your friend,
Tom
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
I made a post about a coin both Rick and I owned, in an ANACS 63 slab, and posed a question about him offering it for 15K in its new NGC holder. I have questions about its originality and think ANACS did too. It's a two sentence post.
Halfway through the thread it's mentioned Rick has suffered a serious grease fire burn. I cringe, could care less about the stupid coin and kick myself for it's bad timing. After all the Rick Snow suckup threads I've posted here I make one provocative thread, linking one of his coins, and now I wish I could swallow it like an olive in a martini.
Rick makes his return thread and uses it to trash me in a very unprofessional manner. He states his regret for selling it to me, the stupidity of my resale on EBay, and professess I owed it to him to offer it back to him. Oh, and thanks for all the best wishes.
Not much more to explain. I certainly should have handled it much better.
I think you have demonstrated that you are human. You have also shown yourself to be a man among men.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
<< <i>ttt, simply to remind the board how this works. >>
Yes, now instead of stories about "how did that crap coin get into a 65 holder" will will have stories about "how did that messed with coin get by the consortium"?