A Question of toning...
Sylvestius
Posts: 1,584 ✭
As many will remember i posted this earlier...
Victorian Jubilee issue.
Why you ask?
Well take a look
Firstly the whole idea that such a product is on the market makes me want to avoid these toned coins all the more than i already do...
As i stated below when i let the cat out of the bag orginally on why i'd posted this, i suspected it was Artificially Toned due to it being used in the context on ebay. If i had come across the coin say in a coins hop or on the internet in general then i would have to admit i would have thought this was one of the few genuine colourfully toned coins. Many members below thought the same as i would have!
Looks like we all need to sit down and have a re-evaluation, does it not?
For those that did know it was AT, how exactly did you know? Can you point me to exact areas on the coin that i should have spotted as the 'tell tale' signs?
Victorian Jubilee issue.
Why you ask?
Well take a look
Firstly the whole idea that such a product is on the market makes me want to avoid these toned coins all the more than i already do...
As i stated below when i let the cat out of the bag orginally on why i'd posted this, i suspected it was Artificially Toned due to it being used in the context on ebay. If i had come across the coin say in a coins hop or on the internet in general then i would have to admit i would have thought this was one of the few genuine colourfully toned coins. Many members below thought the same as i would have!
Looks like we all need to sit down and have a re-evaluation, does it not?
For those that did know it was AT, how exactly did you know? Can you point me to exact areas on the coin that i should have spotted as the 'tell tale' signs?
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I'm afraid to be alive without being aware of it
BTW, isn't that what you term a 'slicker'?
Nice coin, anyway.
FOR SALE Items
I have one in blues, purple, some red ...
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Tom, formerly in Albuquerque, NM.
Ditto? All right, another convert to the oil slick!
is that you end up being governed by inferiors. – Plato
<< <i>But, but, but, ... I thought you liked them white?
Ditto? All right, another convert to the oil slick!
Ah you presume too fast!
This coin i found interesting (no i haven't bought it). Not so much for the coin itself but for the way it is being used to advertise a coin related product. A product that i was amazed to even know existed...
Link
So the question lays, is this an AT coin or is it a Natural toned coin picture the guy has 'borrowed' to promote what he's selling?
If it is a genuine AT, then you might uderstand why i stay clear of coins with such colour.
I think we should stop always complimenting all the coins without exceptions,I know Darksiders are supposed to be real gentlemen, but it will be helpful to sometimes indicate serious defects if we think we see any, the buyer will benefit in the future. Sylvestius, great trick, as for the product I won't comment.
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What i wanted was to see if anyone could actually tell the difference between AT and NT coins.
I'll admit here and now that i haven't got a clue. Which is the reason why i play it safe and consider all colourful coins to be AT until proven otherwise and i thus avoid them, that and i find alot of them ugly anyhow.
I do know of some of the tell tale signs to look out for, unrealistic colours, sudden changes, colours out of sequence etc. But for some reason when i see an actually coin there and then i find the diagnostics hard to apply.
For the one above i couldn't tell you if it was AT or not before you confirmed it. I believed it to be AT based mostly on the fact of two things;
1) The context the picture was posted in
2) I dunno if it's just me who's imagining it, but i think there's some hairlines on that coin in front of Vicky's forehead?
I agree with you Syracusian that we should be more honest. I do endeavour to be as honest as possible on whether i like something or not, as many of you will testify to. If i don't like it i usually try to say so in a polite and subtle manner, although oft i totally fail miserably and come across a tad hostile... but i try.
09/07/2006
<< <i>After me own heart I love the Victorian Jubilee issues
On a side note i actually started on Jubilee coins. My first attempt at trying to collect a set with some actual focus was an 1887 Jubilee head date set minus the top two gold coins. I never completed it... came pretty close though, i was two coins from completion, the Roman I double florin and the sovereign, although i had an 1889-S sovereign filling in.
<< <i>But, but, but, ... I thought you liked them white? >>
Ish, i really prefer them grey scale... light greys or dark greys with a subtle hint of blue. The one thing with me and toning that is or dire importance is that the toning must be even, i can't stress that enough. A nice all-over light subtle tone that gently highlights the features.
<< <i>2) I dunno if it's just me who's imagining it, but i think there's some hairlines on that coin in front of Vicky's forehead? >>
Definitely, looks like it's been dipped and retoned artificially to cover it up.
Nice little exercise, I should have thought of something like this when I found it. Evidently you seize the initiative!
<< <i>I think we should stop always complimenting all the coins without exceptions,I know Darksiders are supposed to be real gentlemen, but it will be helpful to sometimes indicate serious defects if we think we see any, the buyer will benefit in the future. >>
I like the idea, but it would sadden me greatly to see this lovely oasis of civility turn into a cesspool like the liteside
Why not give some serious consideration to pointing out flaws (real or imagined) in others' coins posted here via PM ??? I, for one, would be thrilled to get such comments through a private message. I believe that method could best serve all of us, and the Darkside Forum would continue to be an enjoyable place to visit. Comments of a negative nature usually lead to verbal wars. Do we really want to start that here???
Now, as for the coin you posted, Syl ... I like it, whether it's "AT" or not. The fact that it might be artificially toned does not change my personal opinion of its appearance. Given the context under which you found this coin, I'd have to say it has about a 99.9% chance of being "AT". But, sadly, I can't spot AT coins anyway.
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Tom, formerly in Albuquerque, NM.
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<< <i>But, sadly, I can't spot AT coins anyway. >>
Neither can i! That's why i posted this whole thread for.
No one's actually come forward yet and explained why and where the AT shows best. All i've got so far is "i could tell it was AT a mile off cos it's ugly".
Well sorry but i've seen supposed NT coins that i thought were even uglier! So ugly doesn't necessarily mean it's unnatural, that and i actually kinda happen to like this one!
I dunno why but AT coins often look nicer than naturally colourful coins, the AT ones look so much neater.
Syl, maybe this old thread will help:Various ways of detecting AT coins
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It would be very difficult to determine that the coin shown is AT based on the single picture. For me, the giveaway that a coin is AT, is that both sides look the same. NT coins tend to have one side nicely toned, while the other is either not toned at all or is only moderately toned. Additionally, AT coins tend to have very vibrant colors which change rapidly; this coin does not show that particular attribute, so I can understand why most people thought it was NT.
If you do a search over on the lightside, you should be able to find a thread or two by a guy who was able to AT silver proof commemoratives (he created a nice uniform gold color), which he then was able to get PCGS to slab (he completed an entire registry set). So not even PCGS can tell NT from AT all the time.
P.S. I collect white cions, toned coins are oxidized (i.e. damaged).
Now - would you think those pics are of the very same coin ? Well they are - just different lighting and angles. Here's the obverse images - again the very same coin. And it came right in the original mint case.
Now none of the set match the coin that Syl pictured - but there are many similarities.
I agree in principle with this statement. Unfortunately, if we practice what this preaches, there will be backlash. There is an unwritten and correct rule on this forum is that you never tell a person who posts a coin that his or her coin sucks (now telling the person that they suck for having such a nice coin, that's different
Now, if the coin has not yet been purchased, then it makes sense to level more of a critical opinion - and you do get that here.
When Sylvester first posted this thread and its picture, he seemed to suggest the coin was one of his own, newly puchased. The second post suggests it was purchased from Emperor. That was how I chose to read it at first.
If Sly had posted this picture asking "what do you think of this coin, I am thinking about buying it?" I would have responded that the toning coloration suggests harsh cleaning and retoning. Why? Because I have held coins with that particular color and many of them are that way.
GDJMSP had a great post in this thread. You can make a toned coin look just about any color you like depending on how the coin is photographed. One of the major differences between his absolutely superb proof set and the JH piece of this thread is that you can clearly see underlying lustre on his halfcrown, but there is a flat appearance on the JH.
It is difficult to distinguish between AT and NT, even the definition of which is which. Is it AT when I forget about a coin I left in my leather briefcase, and the coin tones because it sits in that environment for a year? Yes, but AT is an evil practice when the coin's owner does it to attempt to hide other problems or simply increase its market value. There is no reason in my mind that a product like the one being sold in that ebay auction is a good thing.
Anyhow Victorian ain't my era, let alone the toning issue.
For example, here's a bag toned Morgan I bought last week. Not only does it have the right colors in the right order, there's even a textile pattern from the mint bag on it. Nobody would ever "question" the toning on this coin!
(sorry for the lousy pics, am out of town and used my web cam.
Too true, but I didn't want to make any assumptions either.
I do not know how to put it into words about Real Tone versus Artificial Tone. Its just something you learn and remember. I guess a picture is worth a thousand words on the subject.
I have made this post before going past more than 15 of the replys so if it duplicates some other post I appoligize.
Ken
As far as not running down a members coins I totally agree if it is put up for Show and Tell. If it is put up for discussion don't you think the "Truth", or a Truthful Opinion, should be told ?
By the way I try to buy toned coins every time I see one that I like. I have been fooled by pictures on Ebay after receiving coins. Two that stand out were in NGC slabs. As soon as the coin was seen in person AT slapped me. Both were cracked out and bathed quickly in acetone. After about a one second the tone went "Poof". Both coins had the crude brown look of the coin that was first shown in this thread. Needless to say I stay a mile away from this off brown color. It signals AT to me immediately.
Ken
<< <i>Now I have read most of the replys. I'm sorry for calling the coin a piece of junk but seems how the coin is not owned by a member here it seems the statement is Okay. >>
Well, the blue one on the left belongs to me
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Tom, formerly in Albuquerque, NM.
<< <i>Well, the blue one on the left belongs to me
In my opinion its the real deal and a coin I would not mind to have in a collection. Very sorry for not saying this before.
Ken