<< <i>When you couple this with the fact that each and every card is carefully scrutinized by the graders at PSA for 5-10 minutes each and must pass through multiple graders before a grade is assigned, you know that the grade of your card was determined scientifically and not by some hack who spent 5 seconds looking at your card before slabbing it (like some other companies do "across the street") >>
God I hope you're either tongue in cheek or smoking something real sweet, because if you honestly believe that, you are not with us on planet Earth.
I usually glance over dabighurts posts and now that I read it you are correct he is smoking some good stuff! BTW what grading company is across the street from PSA?
Do you really think it's that easy to become a PROFESSIONAL authenticator of sportscards?
When you couple this with the fact that each and every card is carefully scrutinized by the graders at PSA for 5-10 minutes each and must pass through multiple graders before a grade is assigned, you know that the grade of your card was determined scientifically and not by some hack who spent 5 seconds looking at your card before slabbing it (like some other companies do "across the street") >>
Yep!!!! maybe not for someone who has never handled cards, but if you've been collecting cards (both vintage/modern) for several years, I believe that it could be that simple!
There is no way they spend 5-10 minutes per card, maybe on something rare (T-206 Wagner), but not on some 2000 Topps Jeter...
What gives? I know you have been disillusioned by PSA lately. That's cool. But why come on this board to just bash? I think you are correct that the standards aren't being consistently applied to all, but that is not just with PSA. I think we can all find many examples of over-graded cards from all grading companies. For me, I have had terrifically poor luck crossing SGCs over to PSA. Still, that is just my experience. I respect your choice to go over to SGC but I don't really know why you feel the need to semi- insult guys over here who like and use PSA (like me). It is nice that you are really good at submitting winners, but that doesn't mean much other than you are really good at submitting winners. We all know you are an expert at cards, grading, etc. but all of us don't feel the same way about PSA. Sorry. That being said, I apologize if I am misreading the true intent of your posts but they seem awfully bitter to me.
Your friend, Bobby
p.s. I agree that DBH is obviously busting balls in all of his posts. Either that or he is certifiably insane.
<< <i>First, it's ridiculous to say 'if you don't like it, don't buy the card'. As Gator pointed out, lax grading standards will bring down the value of existing slabs. Does anyone here want to break the bank on '71 baseball PSA 9's, then watch as DSL or whoever makes a huge submission, gets a grading break, and puts another 400 mint 9 slabs on Ebay? If the standards are not properly applied the value of those cards already slabbed is compromised. So, if grading standards are deteriorating it's everyone's problem.
Second, I can't see why anyone would have a problem with dgf's post. It's sportscard related, and it's an issue that affects the hobby-- which means fair game for these boards. I get sick of 'look at this '59 Mantle in a PRO holder' threads, or 'here's another shill bidder' threads, but I recognize the right for posters to initiate these threads. If I don't like it I can quietly drive on.
>>
Thanks Boo. Also, you DO raise some good points of your own. While I respectfully disagree that PSA gets it "right" 99% of the time (I would say closer to 70%), You're approach is one that is informed. While I don't have to agree with all of what you post, I can respect that you understand the big picture as relates to collectors of graded cards.
Calleocho, As much as it kills me, you raise some interesting points and quality food for thought. Thank you.
One thing to remember guys, To change the rules MID-STREAM is OK for the collector with his head up his a$$, but for a consistent submitter and set builder who built the bulk of his sets when the standards were MUCH stricter, I'm not sure where cracking/subbing at $6 a pop plus shipping is really in that collector's best interest. Also, assuming one DOES crack and re-submit and DOES get the 9's & 10's he deserves, their value is STILL hurt by the sub-par copies sharing the population. A company that does what PSA does cannot afford to make changes in the standard without being called on it. There is a lot of money at stake with graded cards. This affects everyone with graded cards--in particular cards from the mid-60s and later, where the standards have really gone into the toilet. For guys who simply tell me to re-submit my cards to get more 10's, I will, when PSA does it for free...how 'bout it Joe?
I guess I am just without proper perspective here. I honestly collect for fun and the enjoyment of the cards. I do not collect based on economics which could certainly change my opinion on this matter. (I am not implying that any of you are taking a solely economic perspective when it comes to your collections, I am only stating that I place very little emphasis on that variable when it comes to my collection). If I was concerned with losing a significant amount of money here due to unfairness, I would likely be far more bothered (though I admit that the inequity in grading still bothers me some....but heck, that's life).
Good luck collecting DGF; I know your collection is tremendous no matter what anyone else says. Bobby
Agreed Bobby, I do not collect for investment purposes either. As probably stated before, if for some reason I need to sell of my card, God forbid, I feel at this point in time that PSA graded cards will give me the best liquidity. I think that stating that PSA gets it right 70% is way off base. As I said before since they grade on a whole point system there can be a variance among a certain grade itself. PSA gives me the peace of mind that the card is authentic a if I have an PSA 8 it can be a high end or low end 8. That is fine with me.
<< <i>PSA gives me the peace of mind that the card is authentic >>
Huh? Dude, there are more hack-jobs contentedly cushioned for eternity in those holders than shards of plastic that don't belong there either.
On a final note, my personal favorite (not necessarily most offensive--but actual favorite) PSA moments would be....
5. Seeing Matt Morse magically turn half an invoice from 8's to 9's & 10's. 4. When Peter Ma insulted me when I asked for CS1's at a show for a submission. He said "They're 10 bucks a pack--if I knew who you were I could give them to you, but you know (says with a half grin)." He had only been around a couple of weeks at that point and COULD have simply introduced himself... 3. When I sent an overgraded 10 to them for review and they kept it for 2 months and returned it--never even being opened and checked...that was awesome. 2. When my entire 35 card submission came back with foggy and speckled holders--one contained a pubic hair...niiiiiiiiice! SIDE NOTE: Pubic hair was sent back and was returned still INSIDE the holder...that's one magic hair with quite a few FF miles. 1. Joe Orlando telling me with a straight face "A PSA 8 can have much better eye-appeal than a 10."
It's all in fun and it IS a hobby. I don't want anyone to really think I take it as seriously as all of this. I will continue to purchase accurately graded PSA and SGC sprtscards. Take care all!
Every single post from DGF lately is the same old crap.
It has not always been that way. This all started when DGF did not win a registry award for the best modern set category. A few months later he pulls his set from the registry and starts a tirade about how his 1977 set is better than the Deckle Edge award winner. Stop whining and try to enjoy the hobby.
A quality perspective from a quality guy. Kobe, I forget more daily about vintage cards than you'll ever know in your lifetime. This didn't start over a registry award, either. The waters run much deeper than your little mind could comprehend. To assert this was about something so insignificant shows your simplicity as a human being. A commendable trait when rendering a decision but not so when attempting to share and discern information. "This" started when PSA became wildly inconsistent and carelessly started to devalue their market by whoring their standards. As for the "new guys", that reflects guys who just started posting here this year--there are quite a few. They now greatly outnumber the "old guard". I would also like to take this opportunity to say that you are worthless as pertains to imparting useable information on this forum. Many would agree, but I will speak for myself, that you are the most unliked personality here and I could only guess in "real life" as well. I have often defended you on other forums as a guy who simply doesn't understand the inner workings of reality as the majority sees it. Those days are gone now. I wasn't addressing you prior to your response so your jabs were unwarranted and uninformed...as is your existance. Cheers! dgf
dgf, psa is lucky you dont reside in orange county, much less newport harbor area.
i have been watching this thread and wonder why jrdolan hasn't added anything edgewise to the conversation(s)? lmao at every time you say goodbye and somebody chimes in to bring you back
this has to be the thread of the year thus far (at least to me).
I have always felt DGF had a good eye for eye balling 77's as well as most cards. If I had a card in my possession and had a "meeting" to assign a grade before I submitted, it would be as follows; DGF Eagle eye kid Soft parade -and some guy who complains about not being on the list. If they call it a duck, 99% of the time it'll quack. As far a judging from scans, you be the judge! Seems that many items are popping up from CERTAIN sellers which are questionable. "Maybe they submit more, sell their lower grade 9's on the bay, and sell the higher grade 9's for a premium...." my own idea of "wwds" What would dabigskort say
I would say 99% are graded fairly. Not perfectly, perhaps, but accurately enough to where you don't see the card and think 'wtf'. If you look at 100 randomly selected PSA slabs, I don't think more than one of them is going to be horribly over-graded.
Also, I don't know about PSA falling asleep now more than they used to. Plenty of total dogs popped up in PSA holders pre-2004 (the '72 Clemente and the '78 Carew spring to mind, although there were others). Granted, these '77's you linked to are terrible, but it's important to remember that when you're looking for dogs you're going to find more of them (a la the 'when you buy a blue car you see more blue cars on the road' phenomenon).
"If we are buying the card, why does it matter what the label says?"
Buccaneer-
I address this in my earlier post. If more dogs end up in high end holders, the card which have a legitimate claim to those holders will decrease in value. That's why this matters.
Comments
<< <i>When you couple this with the fact that each and every card is carefully scrutinized by the graders at PSA for 5-10 minutes each and must pass through multiple graders before a grade is assigned, you know that the grade of your card was determined scientifically and not by some hack who spent 5 seconds looking at your card before slabbing it (like some other companies do "across the street") >>
God I hope you're either tongue in cheek or smoking something real sweet, because if you honestly believe that, you are not with us on planet Earth.
ebay id: nolemmings
ON ITS WAY TO NEWPORT BEACH, CA 92658
Julen
_____
Kneel before Zod son or Jurel!!!!
RIP GURU
<< <i>
<< <i>
Do you really think it's that easy to become a PROFESSIONAL authenticator of sportscards?
When you couple this with the fact that each and every card is carefully scrutinized by the graders at PSA for 5-10 minutes each and must pass through multiple graders before a grade is assigned, you know that the grade of your card was determined scientifically and not by some hack who spent 5 seconds looking at your card before slabbing it (like some other companies do "across the street")
Yep!!!! maybe not for someone who has never handled cards, but if you've been collecting cards (both vintage/modern) for several years, I believe that it could be that simple!
There is no way they spend 5-10 minutes per card, maybe on something rare (T-206 Wagner), but not on some 2000 Topps Jeter...
Reread his posts, folks. His clearly being facecious.
What gives? I know you have been disillusioned by PSA lately. That's cool. But why come on this board to just bash? I think you are correct that the standards aren't being consistently applied to all, but that is not just with PSA. I think we can all find many examples of over-graded cards from all grading companies. For me, I have had terrifically poor luck crossing SGCs over to PSA. Still, that is just my experience. I respect your choice to go over to SGC but I don't really know why you feel the need to semi- insult guys over here who like and use PSA (like me). It is nice that you are really good at submitting winners, but that doesn't mean much other than you are really good at submitting winners. We all know you are an expert at cards, grading, etc. but all of us don't feel the same way about PSA. Sorry. That being said, I apologize if I am misreading the true intent of your posts but they seem awfully bitter to me.
Your friend, Bobby
p.s. I agree that DBH is obviously busting balls in all of his posts. Either that or he is certifiably insane.
Late 60's and early to mid 70's non-sports
<< <i>I apologize if I am misreading the true intent of your posts >>
Bobby,
Apology accepted.
dgf
<< <i>First, it's ridiculous to say 'if you don't like it, don't buy the card'. As Gator pointed out, lax grading standards will bring down the value of existing slabs. Does anyone here want to break the bank on '71 baseball PSA 9's, then watch as DSL or whoever makes a huge submission, gets a grading break, and puts another 400 mint 9 slabs on Ebay? If the standards are not properly applied the value of those cards already slabbed is compromised. So, if grading standards are deteriorating it's everyone's problem.
Second, I can't see why anyone would have a problem with dgf's post. It's sportscard related, and it's an issue that affects the hobby-- which means fair game for these boards. I get sick of 'look at this '59 Mantle in a PRO holder' threads, or 'here's another shill bidder' threads, but I recognize the right for posters to initiate these threads. If I don't like it I can quietly drive on.
>>
Thanks Boo.
Also, you DO raise some good points of your own. While I respectfully disagree that PSA gets it "right" 99% of the time (I would say closer to 70%), You're approach is one that is informed. While I don't have to agree with all of what you post, I can respect that you understand the big picture as relates to collectors of graded cards.
Calleocho,
As much as it kills me, you raise some interesting points and quality food for thought. Thank you.
One thing to remember guys,
To change the rules MID-STREAM is OK for the collector with his head up his a$$, but for a consistent submitter and set builder who built the bulk of his sets when the standards were MUCH stricter, I'm not sure where cracking/subbing at $6 a pop plus shipping is really in that collector's best interest. Also, assuming one DOES crack and re-submit and DOES get the 9's & 10's he deserves, their value is STILL hurt by the sub-par copies sharing the population. A company that does what PSA does cannot afford to make changes in the standard without being called on it. There is a lot of money at stake with graded cards. This affects everyone with graded cards--in particular cards from the mid-60s and later, where the standards have really gone into the toilet. For guys who simply tell me to re-submit my cards to get more 10's, I will, when PSA does it for free...how 'bout it Joe?
Click Here for Joes reply
dgf
Good luck collecting DGF; I know your collection is tremendous no matter what anyone else says. Bobby
dgf - Looks like you're attempting to achieve banished martyr status.
Them's that ask for it, usually get it.
ta-ta ...
"How about a little fire Scarecrow ?"
Stingray
A sad day, indeed. It's been a hoot. To the new guys, best of luck and we'll see you down the road!
dgf
<< <i>PSA gives me the peace of mind that the card is authentic >>
Huh?
Dude, there are more hack-jobs contentedly cushioned for eternity in those holders than shards of plastic that don't belong there either.
On a final note, my personal favorite (not necessarily most offensive--but actual favorite) PSA moments would be....
5. Seeing Matt Morse magically turn half an invoice from 8's to 9's & 10's.
4. When Peter Ma insulted me when I asked for CS1's at a show for a submission. He said "They're 10 bucks a pack--if I knew who you were I could give them to you, but you know (says with a half grin)." He had only been around a couple of weeks at that point and COULD have simply introduced himself...
3. When I sent an overgraded 10 to them for review and they kept it for 2 months and returned it--never even being opened and checked...that was awesome.
2. When my entire 35 card submission came back with foggy and speckled holders--one contained a pubic hair...niiiiiiiiice!
SIDE NOTE: Pubic hair was sent back and was returned still INSIDE the holder...that's one magic hair with quite a few FF miles.
1. Joe Orlando telling me with a straight face "A PSA 8 can have much better eye-appeal than a 10."
It's all in fun and it IS a hobby. I don't want anyone to really think I take it as seriously as all of this. I will continue to purchase accurately graded PSA and SGC sprtscards. Take care all!
<< <i>Wolfbear & Other Friends,
A sad day, indeed. It's been a hoot. To the new guys, best of luck and we'll see you down the road!
dgf >>
New guys?
Aren't you the guy who collects 1977 Topps cards? Welcome the the hobby.
It has not always been that way. This all started when DGF did not win a registry award for the best modern set category. A few months later he pulls his set from the registry and starts a tirade about how his 1977 set is better than the Deckle Edge award winner. Stop whining and try to enjoy the hobby.
Cheers!
dgf
dgf
I'm surprised that this post has lasted so long to be honest...I dont know what else you could do to try to get kicked off.
Try Wiwag, someone's kid...or maybe complain about the SMR...those have worked before
Groucho Marx
http://www.clark22murray33.com
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
i have been watching this thread and wonder why jrdolan hasn't added anything edgewise to the conversation(s)? lmao at every time you say goodbye and somebody chimes in to bring you back
this has to be the thread of the year thus far (at least to me).
Cheers
Julen
____
RIP GURU
DGF
Eagle eye kid
Soft parade
-and some guy who complains about not being on the list.
If they call it a duck, 99% of the time it'll quack. As far a judging from scans, you be the judge! Seems that many items are popping up from CERTAIN sellers which are questionable. "Maybe they submit more, sell their lower grade 9's on the bay, and sell the higher grade 9's for a premium...." my own idea of "wwds" What would dabigskort say
I would say 99% are graded fairly. Not perfectly, perhaps, but accurately enough to where you don't see the card and think 'wtf'. If you look at 100 randomly selected PSA slabs, I don't think more than one of them is going to be horribly over-graded.
Also, I don't know about PSA falling asleep now more than they used to. Plenty of total dogs popped up in PSA holders pre-2004 (the '72 Clemente and the '78 Carew spring to mind, although there were others). Granted, these '77's you linked to are terrible, but it's important to remember that when you're looking for dogs you're going to find more of them (a la the 'when you buy a blue car you see more blue cars on the road' phenomenon).
Buccaneer-
I address this in my earlier post. If more dogs end up in high end holders, the card which have a legitimate claim to those holders will decrease in value. That's why this matters.