Nice card...
downgoesfrazier
Posts: 1,515 ✭✭
Another Beaut!
It's amazing how my cards never seem to find the blind guy in the grading room
......Spare me the "everyone makes mistakes" business--this is pure folly and PSA should be ashamed of themselves. Just awful business.dgf
0
Comments
Looks like PSA really wants to keep Walt and Deb's business right where it is. SGC 86, anyone!?! My Perez was virtually perfect aside from 36/64 LR centering and they had no problems assigning it a deserving 8...wonder what happened here. Ridiculous eyesore.
BTW, fifty-bucks say's it has a soft corner and chipping on the bottom edge to boot. Should be NM 7.
dgf
WTF? Niiiiiiice Brock!
Love the fish-eye, extraneous print, edge chipping and poor centering. Fantastic!
Yeah baby!
Low AND right complete with LR corner touch and light edge chipping yours for only $19 bucks if you act NOW!
Walt's cards are too easy to make fun of these days. It's a shame. With SGC he was solid. He knew he couldn't get away with this garbage.
GO MARLINS! Home of the best fans in baseball!!
Ugly Sam Huff rc
I've been looking for a nice Huff rc for around 6 months - and this one has been for sale longer than I have been looking. It's on the verge of being miscut. It should be an 8OC or a 7 - not an unqualified 8. Ugly card.
Greg M.
References:
Onlychild, Ahmanfan, fabfrank, wufdude, jradke, Reese, Jasp, thenavarro
E-Bay id: greg_n_meg
That's a cake-taker. Gee-Merry-Christmas. Absurd.
dgf
It's simple really.
If you don't like the looks of a card then don't bid on it .
I managed to not bid on these ugly SGC graded cards that were recently auctioned off :
Don't like the SGC 8 Lincoln ? No problem ! Grab the one that's a 9 :
And here's a couple of beauties to finish off your set with :
"How about a little fire Scarecrow ?"
Stingray
As for Walts cards DGF i agree he has been getting much stuff graded that he would have never thought about a couple years ago but to his credit he always lists nice scans of both sides of cards for you to decide for yourself.
Lots of people collect RAW cards, If you get so worked up about misgrades and such, then just collect RAW. Its just late 70's baseball cards. Maybe change grading services, or just start your own.
seriously every single post that you make its about how PSA gives you lousy grades, and how much better your PSA 8 is than the PSA 9 sold by DSL.
You have a great reputation of picking high quality modern cards and many board members have praised your sharp eye, that would mean more to me than what PSA thinks.
I would like to think that we pay for the expertise of PSA which is detecting doctored cards and not so much for PSA's opinion on what the card grades.
I could see what a card looks like, regardless of the grade. However detecting rebuilt corners, bleached borders and slight trimming its a bit more deceptive than condition.
Groucho Marx
I agree 100% but why would you send in your 77 or 81 topps, not much to alter lol. I used to think the same till sosas 88 star card jumped from a pop of 5 to 35 in a day in psa 10. Any other modern card I wouldn't blink this one only 2500 produced last card in the set Id have to say there fakes. But what do I know only owning 3-5 and seeing maybe one every 2 years. Now one a week!!!!!!!
Gator
I have a few of my favorite ones in binders..they bring really nice memories.
But quite frankly besides a few rookies of major HOF'ers there its nothing worth grading.
They are just too over produced...they are never going to be rare, not even in gem mint.
That doesnt mean they are not great cards, it just means that when you can buy a particular player by 100 ct lot, then maybe grading really adds nothing to that card.
Gator,
i really dont know a thing about the sosas..but 35 psa 10's out of 2500 cards seems normal for modern.
Groucho Marx
As for the PSA bashers, I really wonder sometimes. Where do these noxious people get off telling PSA how to do their job? Seriously. Do they even know what the "P" in PSA stand for? It stands for PROFESSIONAL!! As in trained and certified experts who do this for a living! Professionals who are ethical and among the most respected and accomplished hobbyists in the world!
Sorry, just because a person has a card or two on the Set Registry does NOT make them qualified to tell the learned PSA how to do their business.
GO MARLINS! Home of the best fans in baseball!!
Yeah 35 for 2500 would be reasonable but only 2500 were ever produced so
Im not hear to pick a fight just stating what I know and call it like it is.
Your statements of modern lets say era of 72-82...15% of the set will always be sought after...Now thats in a true collecting form not just something that slides in a holder with a grade assigned from any grading company.
Gator
<< <i>
WTF? Niiiiiiice Brock!
Love the fish-eye, extraneous print, edge chipping and poor centering. Fantastic!
That isn't a fish eye, Brock is blowing a "smoke ring"
Mike
Late 60's and early to mid 70's non-sports
You and I never see eye to eye as you are very unenlightened. Everyone is entitled to their opinion: True.--YOU ARE NOT, however, entitled to your own set of FACTS...
<< <i>seriously every single post that you make its about how PSA gives you lousy grades >>
That FACT is: I rarely--if ever--complain about MY grades. I get more 10's than Mary Lou Retton. I'm not sure anyone here gets the percentage of 9's and 10's I get. It's well above 95% for 1970's baseball. It's the 10's and 9's that others get on INFERIOR cards that bother me. Don't post a response to me again if you can't add anything to the discussion of merit that you can substantiate. I've got over 1200 posts and I doubt there are two where I directly complain about MY grades. You don't get to make up your own set of facts when voicing your opinion. I deal in real life and facts. My information is straight and informed. I can't say the same for you.
Wolfbear,
Those cards are BRUTAL. In ANY holder. I found your commentary on "don't like the 8--buy the 9 pretty f'in funny. Your comment that if it's not to your liking don't bid is silly, however. These companies are PAID to get it right. If we're going to use our eyes and talent and taste anyway, who needs the grading companies. Perhaps you do--I don't. I like to point out these poorly graded examples to hopefully pull some very thick heads out of some very considerable a$$es so you guys take notice. I can always tell who the meatheads are by the guys who take issue with FACTS. The cards I pointed out suck. The grader who graded them, therefore, sucks....certainly did THAT day. Shame on SGC as well. We may all make mistakes but those are over the line. Don't give me "within guidelines"--they're not, certainly not for the "average Joe" who submits a couple hundred 81 topps cards at a time. This is an argument you're starting, but can't win. The facts are what they are. It's simple--if you don't like the post--don't respond.
Gator,
How many 9's or better have YOU gotton on cards like the ones I pointed out? None? I thought so.
dgf
You seem to be forgetting business 101: without customers, you have no business! Frankly, I'm more than a little surprised at your flippant attitude. The customer tells you how to do your business by choosing to utilize or not utilize you services.
Jim
100 PRISTINE: A "virtually flawless" card. 50/50 centering, crisp focus, four sharp corners*, free of stains, no breaks in surface gloss, no print or refractor lines, and no visible wear under magnification.
98 GEM 10: 55/45 or better centering, sharp focus, four sharp corners*, free of stains, no breaks in surface gloss, no print or refractor lines, and no visible wear. A slight print spot visible under close scrutiny is allowable if it does not detract from the aesthetics of the card.
96 MINT 9: 60/40 or betting centering, sharp focus and four sharp corners*. A minor flaw may exist upon close examination. A minor flaw may be, but is not limited to: a slight nick to one corner, a small gloss break or surface scratch, a minor print line or minor refractor line, a minor focus or color imperfection, or a small print spot.
92 NM/MT+ 8.5: 65/35 or better centering, four sharp corners*. A few minor flaws may exist upon close examination. A minor flaw may be, but is not limited to: a slight nick to one corner, a small gloss break or surface scratch, a minor print line or minor refractor line, a minor focus or color imperfection, or a small print spot.
88 NM/MT 8: 65/35 or better centering, corners sharp to the naked eye but may exhibit slight wear under closer examination. A few small flaws may exist upon close examination. A small flaw may be, but is not limited to: very minor wear on one corner, a gloss break or surface scratch, a print line or refractor line, a focus or color imperfection, or a print spot.
86 NM+ 7.5: 70/30 or better centering, a few small flaws may exist upon close examination. A small flaw may be, but is not limited to: very minor wear on one corner, a gloss break or surface scratch, a print line or refractor line, a focus or color imperfection, or a print spot.
Stingray
I have really been enjoying collecting since going with raw product. I still buy PSA and SGC graded cards, but need to see a large scan and know the seller. The hobby is great, but I think third-party authentication has lost it's place a bit. Standards aside, PSA's integrity has to be in question here. There are two choices: 1. They are not competent or consistent -or- 2. They--or their standards-- lack integrity. Those are the only ways to explain these cards that have been flooding eBay the last eighteen months. In SGC's case I would say the former (although I feel they are more consistent than PSA) in PSA's case I would say all of the above. Again, I have hard data to support my claims. It's been posted here and elsewhere a thousand times so I'll spare you the length and simply refer you to eBay to see the overwhelming percentage of overgraded cards.
dgf
God bless you. You're a well-meaning dude and you're trying...I appreciate it. Fact is, Wolfbear threw those in my face and he's right. I have NO argument there. Those are not within' their standards and if they are they SERIOUSLY need to re-think those standards. In ANY holder those cards/grades are unacceptable. If you can't buy the card, unseen, and have some idea what you're getting, third-party opinion has little worth.
dgf
Stingray
Dude dont snap at me ive been stating this for a long time. I have no answers I just watched some of my best raw go for less than 35 cents a pop and some of my best graded go for 2 bucks a pop. Not to burst your bubble but I wouldve never even submitted the brock would be sitting in my nrmt pile raw for someone that would get it for 50 cents instead of 25 smacks, now would I like to get 25 but not for that card 3 bux would surfice would I get that, heck no noone would believe me its nrmt
Personally I laugh at alot of comments made here I make no heads or tails of the grading game its all treated me well I have no desire to collect plastic anymore in any companys name, it all comes down to cash. Simple fact why would I go to the grocery store to pay 3.00 for brown eggs when I can go to the farmer and get them for 75cents. What, I need someone to package them for me hmmm why? Put them up to the light no living beings eat on lol!!!!!!!!! You think someone really grades eggs hahaha come on its either we get them for a and sell them for b or b sell them for c.
So when you see the sudden inflation rise in b's what would you think that means i guess a's arent selling so we make ab's cd's and de's hence the sudden rise of the psa 10. All we need to do is change the package no biggy we just take a glance anyway.
Some of these guys just don't get it. They don't understand our quality and the quality of of the stuff we're comparing it to. I bailed on my 81's I had graded when I did because the writing was on the wall then and it's getting worse every day. For you to realize any value on your stuff, the guys on here would have to see it live and then compare it to the stuff these big boys are peddling. It's like when you pay $25 for an 81 common from me. You get and they don't. Buy the card and not the holder? Those same guys say it because they wouldn't know the difference half the time. The Rose will get bids and the sun will rise again tomorrow with or without us. The good news is the guys with the heads up their backside won't see it either.
We do are best, but calle try finding a true klutts in a 9 or bench without the smudge that can make 9 watched that go from 5-35 in a week lol. Bottomline is, we know more than psa with this issue (70-85) am I proud kinda. When you invest this type of money for building a set of this magnitude you would have thought they would have thought about the little guy. They dont, standards are standards correct then why do you see 6040 oooooooooorrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr 6535. 65-35orrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr7030 come on man wtf the door is open and open it is to anyone with a load of cards willing to submit for its the dollar at the moment. If it wasnt they would employ alot better modern graders at least try an get a master set or work with the people willing to work.
Ps sorry for my more than hick performance for I lack in english excell in math and intelligence or just tell it how I see it.
Cheers, Gator
So basically its all a crapshot when it comes to grading cards?
I agree.
Downgoesfrazier,
its true that you dont complain about your grades...you just complain when someone gets the same grades you do..but of course your cards are superior.
I mean after all you do spend time searching those 1.2 million modern cards...just to find that elusive GEM MINT PRISTINE PERFECT card.
Most people would donate those cards to charity..or burn them ...but you dig through all those .05 cents cards in order to find one that has razor edges that could cut through metal and colors that could blind a nocturnal bat.
But what happens when the almost never ending supply of these modern cards start turning up a few more PSA 10's...oh yes..you come and post it on this board and proudly compare your examples to let everyone know how vastly superior your cards truly are....hell even your PSA 8's beat whatever its out on ebay.
then of course blame it on PSA incosistency, and praise GAI or SGC depending on your particular mood that day.
Try finding inner peace, try collecting RAW or maybe swtiching to another company...i hear BGS caters to this modern crap.
PSA its not perfect...and many people believe it or not have learned to live this fact.
Most people realize that all grading systems are flawed...most guys in here do pay attention to eye appeal and pay accordingly.
Groucho Marx
why grade these cards at all unless you are a dealer?
outside of a few cards there are almost no chance that these cards are fakes or doctored?
Why pay 10 dollars to have PSA tell you what you already know...a MINT card its a MINT card.
I would think that most people use PSA for their authentication services, paying for a service which actually makes sense, an expertise on doctored and counterfit cards and the grading part which basically should give a basic idea of how the card looks.
is it the goal of having the best on the registry? well then play the game..but dont complain about it...PSA is the equivalent of an umpire when it comes to calling the grades. good days and bad days.
Groucho Marx
<< <i>I would think that most people use PSA for their authentication services, paying for a service which actually makes sense, an expertise on doctored and counterfit cards and the grading part which basically should give a basic idea of how the card looks. >>
Dude,
What PLANET are you on??? Also, your next line IS my argument. Why do people keep paying PSA $10 per card to get it wrong as often as they do. I'm not saying they merely disagree with ME, they actually don't apply their OWN standard.
Calleocho,
You can't keep your personal feelings aside here...that's obvious. Matt basically echoed every f'in word I've written. You seem to not have as big an issue with him. I find THAT interesting. I don't need a collecting baby pissing vinegar to tell me how to collect. PSA has shown to be a moving target in terms of consistency and engages in special interests where the dollars are concerned. I will and DO collect raw--that suits me. Matt gets it as well as a handful of other collectors here, but they are few and far between. You obviously don't. No crime. We'll agree to disagree. I do understand that the truth makes some uncomfortable and appreciate that. I still don't like you but I DO appreciate your time on this. Take care,
<< <i>Most people realize that all grading systems are flawed...most guys in here do pay attention to eye appeal and pay accordingly. >>
Very true all grading companies are consistantly inconsistent. I will not buy a card without a scan from any of them
Great to hear from you! That pinging sound ringing in my ears is a big hammer landing squarely on the head of a nail.
<< <i>
<< <i>Most people realize that all grading systems are flawed...most guys in here do pay attention to eye appeal and pay accordingly. >>
Very true all grading companies are consistantly inconsistent. I will not buy a card without a scan from any of them >>
Same here.
I have a theory about the centering standards (since that's what I pay attention more than anything else):
In order to make a market for graded cards, there have to be a general "bell curve" on distribution on grades. In other words, for a given vintage year, the bulk of the grades have to be below the high ends (and purely by economics, above the low ends). Knowing the way Topps had cut cards from their sheets, a great many of them do not have perfect centering. Therefore, the upper end of the bell curve (say, 9 for true vintage) have to allow some degree of off-centeredness (60/40 to 65/35). If the standard was higher, there would so few PSA 9 (let alone 10) that it would not create a viable market for high grade cards. In my opinion, the research (or knowledge) of centeredness (and taking into consideration age/wear) dictated what the standards would be, not the other way around. Makes sense?
On another note, I have been perceiving a trend that the market for raw vintage cards have been plummeting in the past year, while the market for graded have been getting stronger. I think there are several reasons for this which I will not get into (they are obvious). I think there are a plethora of graded cards that would fall into the high-end of the grade that we shouldn't have to worry about the low-end examples. If we are buying the card, why does it matter what the label says?
<< <i>If the standard was higher, there would so few PSA 9 (let alone 10) that it would not create a viable market for high grade cards. In my opinion, the research (or knowledge) of centeredness (and taking into consideration age/wear) dictated what the standards would be, not the other way around. Makes sense? >>
One thought/opinion on this. I don't/doubt PSA/SGC/GAI/BGS or whoever cares about this? The only thing they are concerned with are incoming cards?They We often forget PSA gets paid once and doesn't get a commission on a card that DSl sells on ebay. If they were to kill /downgrade cards for having PRINT(JOCK AREA) / CENTERING(BACK) problems like these they would never get these types of cards for revenue?
MO
John
ON ITS WAY TO NEWPORT BEACH, CA 92658
GO MARLINS! Home of the best fans in baseball!!
dbh: Very good. Now just move that pic down to your sig.
Stingray
My problems are not with the vintage graders I find them to be very fair and consistent and do think they are the best in the hobby at the vintage game. Now what I do have a beef with is how they let the same submitters keep going that continue to fill the invoice with trimmed cards. For instance ev,ev,ev,ev,ev,9,evevveev10, you get my point. Why doesnt that throw a flag.
Crapshoot is what your going to find in the modern grading they really missed the boat on this one. Collectable they could have been now theres nowhere to go the 35 benchs which 30 of them have the smudge. They graded my smudges 6 and 7. Ok so you can have a smudge in a psa 10 ie molitortrammell but if you have a speck of snow its a 7 or some print and its an 8. Thats just one flaw to mention. Centering is the other one day its 6040 but on a 2000 card submission its 6733 why????????? Because its a 2000 cards submission at a discount and dont have time measure or the bigsubmitter factor its definitly not the eyeappeal deal weve seen 1000s of cases on that. Is that fair we pay for a service the service should remain the same for everyone if Im plopping down this amount of money for the assurance my investment will hold instead of being flooded with subpar cards.
Would I jump back in if I thought things were to spec yes I would but not at this point. Im not claiming that Im better than anyone or take sides but this is a forum and making the industry better is what Im looking for.
I would also like to add does anyone have the scan of the 71 seaver in a 10 that ran in the superiours auction 2yrs ago. Now that cards a piece of work. If you want to talk about centering then post the scan and figure out what standards were used that day.
Gator
Point-Counter Point
"Jane you ignorant slut!"
Julen
RIP GURU
The problem boils down to the cards themselves.
If you buy a common 50's PSA 8 it would probably cost you around 20 bucks
If you buy the same raw card it might cost you 10-15 dollars.
There is value there, the slab only enhances that value of the card.
the condition is the same, the buyer knows that, but he might be unsure of wether the card its altered or not, therefore he pays a premium for the authentication and the protection of the holder
So the buyer finds a card in the condition he wants, pays a premium " for the card itself" and enjoys the side benefits such as liquidity in the market and the set registry as well.
Thats why i prefer grading for these reasons and why i choose PSA.
Now, when it comes to modern cards...its a whole different game.
Raw cards are basically worthless, so the buyer is mostly buying the holder.
why doesnt he buy the card if the collector thinks it will grade high...well this is the main problem.
Defining high grade cards when it comes to modern its impossible to do in a consistent manner.
NO grading company could do it.
I dont know if im making my point clear enough....when it comes to vintage any card with decent centering, sharp corners and a clean surface will most likely be an 8...they ignore minor imperfections and rightly so since thats what a MINT vintage card should look like.
But when it comes to modern...most cards that people send in have decent centering, almost all of them have sharp corners and most of them have clean surfaces and none of them are counterfit.
So..PSA has to start nickpicking little imperfections in order to create some type of market for high end cards...the problem is that since every card could have some miniscule imperfection they could always find a way to downgrade your card and its also true that many times since the imperfections are so insignificant to begin with they simply miss them.
so you get a bunch misgrade cards which are both undergraded and overgraded.
PSA and others are not trying to be greedy by getting you to resummit...the problem has come trying to over analize these minute differences in the form of grades.
You can not consistenly divide MINT cards into three grades...a Mint card is a mint card...but graders have to divide these cards into an 8, 9 or a 10
I used to do the same thing when i was in high school... my friends and i would compare pretty girls and give them numbers...we would have a scale and we could never agree on some girls final grade even though they were very pretty one of us would always find something not quite right, the hair, skin tone, all minor crap and therefore the prettiest girls would always score between 8-10.
Now when we would check out their mothers we usually agreed on their score, we knew right away which ones where hot and which ones were not.
modern just can not be graded properly...when the grading gets a little soft..Grading comapnies will tighten the outflow of high grades given ...if it gets too hard they will soften up somewhat.
If DSL sent 10,000 cards during when of their particular "soft" period then you will be seeing a lot crap on the bay and when the grading gets "tough" again...you will have a lot of people rather impressed with how high end their cards are.
For a big time summitter they can ride these "grading" waves by simply logic of statistics... over all they will probably come ahead.
For a small summitter if they get caught during the tough part of the wave..you are screwed, you can afford to lose a 1000 dollars and consider it part of life.
You will take it personal and it will make you bitter.
Groucho Marx
<< <i>Calle:
Ok so you can have a smudge in a psa 10 ie molitortrammell but if you have a speck of snow its a 7 or some print and its an 8. Thats just one flaw to mention.
Gator >>
I have thought about this very same point many times. The best that I can come up with is that the notorious Molitor/Trammell smudge is a print defect that is found its way onto a huge percentage of the sheets on that card only. Snow is a printing problem much more variable and no card is exempt. The graders obviously treat the smudge differently than other print problems IMO.
Dan
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
First, it's ridiculous to say 'if you don't like it, don't buy the card'. As Gator pointed out, lax grading standards will bring down the value of existing slabs. Does anyone here want to break the bank on '71 baseball PSA 9's, then watch as DSL or whoever makes a huge submission, gets a grading break, and puts another 400 mint 9 slabs on Ebay? If the standards are not properly applied the value of those cards already slabbed is compromised. So, if grading standards are deteriorating it's everyone's problem.
Second, I can't see why anyone would have a problem with dgf's post. It's sportscard related, and it's an issue that affects the hobby-- which means fair game for these boards. I get sick of 'look at this '59 Mantle in a PRO holder' threads, or 'here's another shill bidder' threads, but I recognize the right for posters to initiate these threads. If I don't like it I can quietly drive on.
Third-- and I'm surprised nobody has brought this up-- the central problem here is not PSA, per se, but rather the grading standards that they initially set. Sorry, but nobody can consistently tell the difference between 60% of the '8's out there and the 9's, or any of the 9's and the 10's. Why? Because there just isn't any meaningful difference. There are bound to be inconsistencies when you have people assigning grades based on this kind of minutae. I think PSA is a legitimate company, and it would surprise me if they didn't do their best to apply fair standards-- but it's unrealistic to expect them to succeed. True, the cards that have appeared in this thread (the '77 Brock, etc.) are just terrible, and PSA should be embarrassed. But these exceptions aren't really the point. PSA gives an acceptable grade for 99% of the cards that run through Newport Beach, and you have to expect some bad apples when a company is dealing with this kind of volume. The larger problem is simply the fact that because the grading standards are so ridiculous inconsistencies are bound to occur.
A year ago or so I proposed that the collecting world would have been much better off if PSA had gone with a 5 point system in the beginning instead of the 10 point system, essentially assigning a grade from 1 to 5 for fair/poor, good, excellent, near mint and mint. That's all you really need, and with a system that simple most cards could be easily and accurately slotted. Thus, these 'DSL 10's' that we hear about would be considered low-end 5's, while dgf's blazing 88 Topps would be considered high-end 5's. We complain about these DSL grades because they make thousands of extra dollars by getting their cards into 9 holders. If we had a 5 point system this wouldn't occur, and the 'volume submitter' conspiracy would be a non-issue.
I get a bang out of threads where somebody says something like 'I turned in my first submission last week, pored over every card for 20 minutes with a 10x loupe, and submitted only the 'lock 9's'. So imagine my horror when they all came back 8's! What do I need to do differently!' Well, nothing! You want to tell me that a guy who goes over his cards like this is somehow missing something that the guys at PSA can detect? Hogwash. The guy got 8's because there's no substantial difference between high end 8's and 9's, and the grader--for whatever reason-- decided to hang his cards with 8's. That's all there is to it, and no 'tours of the grade room' or 'report cards to tell me exactly what's wrong with the card' is going to change that. Grading cards is not rocket science, folks. Take anyone here and give them a 20 minute training seminar and they'll do just fine.
Anybody who's done any serious cracking and resubmitting will doublessly agree with me. Cards switch holders all the time. I know that plenty here think DSL gets preferential grades, but I genuinely doubt this is the case. Instead I suspect that they just send in the same cards over and over until they finally get into an acceptable holder. If you have a high end 65 Mantle in a PSA 8 holder, and you think there's 15% chance that the card would be in a 9 holder if you resubmitted, then you're a stone fool if you don't send that card in over and over and over.
About two years ago I had the opportunity to meet a volume submitter who used to be very active on Ebay. I remember when he went to Tuscon, Ari., to close on a deal for 600 '89 UD Randy Johnson RC's, all in PSA 9 holders. He paid 6$ each for them. You think he resold them as is? Guess again. He cracked them out, sent them back through PSA, and got something like 80-100 Gem Mints back. This is the kind of stuff that big dealers (like DSL) do all the time. They know that virtually no cards can be handily slotted into a particular grade, but rather exist on a continuum of possible grades. There are no raw '9's' for instance. Instead, there are cards that, if submitted, will end up in a 8 holder 40% of the time, a 9 holder 55% of the time, and a 10 holder 5% of the time. If it's profitable to resubmit it they do--otherwise they move it.
Boopotts - That's one of the best posts about grading that I've ever read.
You make some great points. Can't really find anything that I don't agree with.
One question. Can we assume you'd be against PSA going to the half point grading system ?
"How about a little fire Scarecrow ?"
Stingray
<< <i>
I get a bang out of threads where somebody says something like 'I turned in my first submission last week, pored over every card for 20 minutes with a 10x loupe, and submitted only the 'lock 9's'. So imagine my horror when they all came back 8's! What do I need to do differently!' Well, nothing! You want to tell me that a guy who goes over his cards like this is somehow missing something that the guys at PSA can detect? Hogwash. The guy got 8's because there's no substantial difference between high end 8's and 9's, and the grader--for whatever reason-- decided to hang his cards with 8's. That's all there is to it, and no 'tours of the grade room' or 'report cards to tell me exactly what's wrong with the card' is going to change that. Grading cards is not rocket science, folks. Take anyone here and give them a 20 minute training seminar and they'll do just fine. >>
Do you really think it's that easy to become a PROFESSIONAL authenticator of sportscards? There's a reason why thousands upon thousands of dealers/collectors send MILLIONS of dollars worth of cards to PSA to get authenticated. That's because the trained and certified experts at PSA know their craft. The certification process for PSA authentication experts is long and arduous.
While you and I may not be able to tell the difference between PSA 8s and 9s, the experts at PSA can. That's what they're trained to do. You wouldn't trust a plumber to give you a medical evaluation, would you? Then why would you think you can grade cards professionally like the experts? This is why people send cards to PSA, because most times, they're just too inexperienced in this field. Most collectors can't tell the difference between PSA 8s or even 6s. That's why PSA is so successful.
When you couple this with the fact that each and every card is carefully scrutinized by the graders at PSA for 5-10 minutes each and must pass through multiple graders before a grade is assigned, you know that the grade of your card was determined scientifically and not by some hack who spent 5 seconds looking at your card before slabbing it (like some other companies do "across the street")
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I worship your posts.