Type 1 double eagle
Taikonaut
Posts: 165
Does anyone here specialises on type 1 $20 pieces?
0
Taikonaut
Posts: 165
Comments
1850 $20 PCGS AU-50
1855 $20 NGC AU-58
1857-O $20 NGC XF-45
1861-O $20 PCGS XF-45
I have owned others, including recently sold 1857 $20 PCGS MS-61 and 1852-O $20 NGC AU-53.
<< <i>I own a few, but I do not consider it my specialty.
1850 $20 PCGS AU-50
1855 $20 NGC AU-58
1857-O $20 NGC XF-45
1861-O $20 PCGS XF-45
I have owned others, including recently sold 1857 $20 PCGS MS-61 and 1852-O $20 NGC AU-53. >>
You are not thinking of selling or exchanging any of these? I have one an 1852 but its raw, I dont like buying them slabbed because I can get them cheaper that way.
<< <i>This is the only one I own, which is my type coin. This one is an NGC AU-58, and I agree with the grade. It would take BIG boy to colect those by date and mint. The prices are really steep if you are going to collect coins that look decent. I hate $20 gold coins when they are baggy.
How much is this valued at?
No, I am not considering selling or exchanging these.
If buying them "on the cheap" is your objective, raw still may be preferred, but watch out for problem coins!
Doug Winter's An Insider's Guide to Type I Double Eagles is widely available and an essential reference for the series.
<< <i>You are not thinking of selling or exchanging any of these? I have one an 1852 but its raw, I dont like buying them slabbed because I can get them cheaper that way.
No, I am not considering selling or exchanging these.
If buying them "on the cheap" is your objective, raw still may be preferred, but watch out for problem coins!
Doug Winter's An Insider's Guide to Type I Double Eagles is widely available and an essential reference for the series.
bgreen@parkavenumis.com
800-992-9881
Visit us at www.parkavenumis.com
Very nice original 61-O and worthy of a 45 grade.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Where can I buy it and for how much?
<< <i>Comments on this 1861-O?
From a previous Heritage auction this was the explanation which is pretty concise:
1861-O $20 AU58 PCGS. An extremely popular issue among Southern gold specialists, the 1861-O is the final Double Eagle produced at the New Orleans Mint prior to 1879. The outbreak of the Civil War in 1861 explains why three different governing authorities struck Double Eagles in New Orleans that year. In January, Union authorities delivered 5,000 examples. These were followed by an additional 9,750 pieces struck by the State of Louisiana from late January through May and a further 2,991 coins that the Confederate States of America produced after June 1. The combined mintage of the 1861-O Double Eagle, therefore, is 17,741 pieces. Numismatic legend has it that the surviving examples with soft definition on the bottom of the date are those coins that were produced by the Confederacy. This has been disproved because all survivors of this issue display some degree of weakness in this area. It seems that the date logotype was lightly impressed into the die. Extensive die polishing resulted in the prooflike finish that most '61-O Twenties display, but it also further weakened the bottom of the date. In a vain effort to correct this defect, an employee at the New Orleans Mint tried to re-engrave the lower edge of the 8. The raised die lines from this work are still evident on the present example.
While there is no way to determine which governing authority struck which 1861-O Double Eagles, the popularity and desirability of this issue remains constant among advanced collectors. Doug Winter's most recent (January 2002) estimate on the number of extant examples in all grades is 135-165 pieces, of which 30 coins grade AU50-AU58. To date, the '61-O is unknown in Mint State. ****** PCGS has now graded 3 in MS-60. I do not have NGC pop report.
Another Heritage auction description:
1861-O $20 AU50 PCGS. Struck under the auspices of the Federal government, the state of Louisiana, and the Confederacy, each example of this issue poses a historical puzzle. It's said that the weaker the strike at the base of the date, the more likely the southern origins. Most surviving examples are VF or XF, with AU pieces being very elusive. The presently offered example is sharply detailed with traces of luster still evident. It is moderately worn, for the grade, and there are numerous surface abrasions, the most notable of which rests between Liberty's nose and mouth. The striking details are especially soft on the base of the date, and are typical elsewhere. Population: 11 in 50, 27 finer (10/03). (#8934) (Registry values: P8, N5750)
Here is an old thread on the 1861-O $20's.
Old thread on 1861-O $20 gold.
<< <i>I have a few, but the one I like best is a "Presentation Piece" from 1850 that Breen referenced in his reportings of "proofs" from that date and which was once in the collection of Dr. Green. I was honored that David Bowers welcomed the opportunity to examine the coin and that he found the coin of interest during his research in preparing for his recent book titled, A Guide Book of Double Eagle Gold Coins, and appreciated his kind words in the Credits and Acknowledgements section referencing our correspondence relating to the specimen. In thanking David Bowers, I wrote, "I was surprised and honored for your having listed me among the Individual Credits and Acknowledgements in your new Double Eagle Gold Coin book. As I read your description of the 1870 Longacre Sale which "included a Proof 1850 $20, per the catalogue.." and your writing of "The Amazing Green Sale of 1949" with a complete set of date and mintmark varieties of double eagles being sold by B. Max Mehl, I couldn't help but wonder if the 1850 $20 with provenance attributed to Dr. C.W. Green that you had examined from my collection and described to me as "Special" was in fact the same coin in both of those sales." (The coin is also identified a significant example of the 1850 Double Eagle on Coinfacts.com) PR-62 1850 $20 Attributed to Dr. C.W. Green >>
Here is a photo of the 1850 "Proof" $20
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<< <i>This is the only one I own, which is my type coin. This one is an NGC AU-58, and I agree with the grade. It would take BIG boy to colect those by date and mint. The prices are really steep if you are going to collect coins that look decent. I hate $20 gold coins when they are baggy.
How much is this valued at? >>
The current Gray Sheet bid on this coin is $1,150.00. As a practical matter you would lucky if you could an attractive, smooth one like this for $1,500 to $1,600. 1861 is one of the most common dates in the series.
<< <i>I have a few, but the one I like best is a "Presentation Piece" from 1850 that Breen referenced in his reportings of "proofs" from that date and which was once in the collection of Dr. Green. I was honored that David Bowers welcomed the opportunity to examine the coin and that he found the coin of interest during his research in preparing for his recent book titled, A Guide Book of Double Eagle Gold Coins, and appreciated his kind words in the Credits and Acknowledgements section referencing our correspondence relating to the specimen. In thanking David Bowers, I wrote, "I was surprised and honored for your having listed me among the Individual Credits and Acknowledgements in your new Double Eagle Gold Coin book. As I read your description of the 1870 Longacre Sale which "included a Proof 1850 $20, per the catalogue.." and your writing of "The Amazing Green Sale of 1949" with a complete set of date and mintmark varieties of double eagles being sold by B. Max Mehl, I couldn't help but wonder if the 1850 $20 with provenance attributed to Dr. C.W. Green that you had examined from my collection and described to me as "Special" was in fact the same coin in both of those sales." (The coin is also identified a significant example of the 1850 Double Eagle on Coinfacts.com) PR-62 1850 $20 Attributed to Dr. C.W. Green >>
Sorry - haven't had success in getting the photo link to work. Photo is stuck in "my documents" - guess I could email it. However, the above link to CoinFacts describing my coin (The PR-62) works.
<< <i>It is interesting to note that a Type I in MS-65 can be had for close to $10,000, while a Type II in that same grade as a type coin is a $50,000 coin. I guess we have several notable shipwrecks to thank for that result. >>
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<< <i>This is the only one I own, which is my type coin. This one is an NGC AU-58, and I agree with the grade. It would take BIG boy to colect those by date and mint. The prices are really steep if you are going to collect coins that look decent. I hate $20 gold coins when they are baggy.
How much is this valued at? >>
The current Gray Sheet bid on this coin is $1,150.00. As a practical matter you would lucky if you could an attractive, smooth one like this for $1,500 to $1,600. 1861 is one of the most common dates in the series. >>
I actually won a ebay bid about 2 months ago of an 1864 prooflike AU58 but the seller would not sell me it and refuse to answer my emails for a long time, when he eventually replied he made daft excuses that he dont like sending gold coins overseas even though he sells worldwide. I think one for a negative feedback.
<< <i>It is interesting to note that a Type I in MS-65 can be had for close to $10,000, while a Type II in that same grade as a type coin is a $50,000 coin. I guess we have several notable shipwrecks to thank for that result. >>
Asolutely true for the type I but not for the type II.
The last PCGS MS-65 type II (1869) sold for over $200,000. You will not find a real MS-65 for under $200,000 anymore in the type II.
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<< <i>This is the only one I own, which is my type coin. This one is an NGC AU-58, and I agree with the grade. It would take BIG boy to colect those by date and mint. The prices are really steep if you are going to collect coins that look decent. I hate $20 gold coins when they are baggy.
How much is this valued at? >>
The current Gray Sheet bid on this coin is $1,150.00. As a practical matter you would lucky if you could an attractive, smooth one like this for $1,500 to $1,600. 1861 is one of the most common dates in the series. >>
I actually won a ebay bid about 2 months ago of an 1864 prooflike AU58 but the seller would not sell me it and refuse to answer my emails for a long time, when he eventually replied he made daft excuses that he dont like sending gold coins overseas even though he sells worldwide. I think one for a negative feedback. >>
Yes, I would put a negative on him big time. If you meet that minimum bid and are willing to pay your bid plus shipping, you deserve to get the coin. He deserves a negative feedback + a removal from eBay if he refuses to honor his contract.
The latest prices in MS-65 are all over the charts:
Latest auction sale========$218,500
Numismedia Retail =======$234,000
Numismedia Wholesale====$180,000
Numismedia NGC (nmn)===$160,000
Numismedia PCGS (nmp)==$165,000
Coin Universe===========$ 75,000
Coin World==============$not listed