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Soriano v Arod

joestalinjoestalin Posts: 12,473 ✭✭
What would of been the better keep for Geroge??

36 hits, 8 homers, and .283 for 7.5 mil or
36 hits 10 homers and .290 for 25.7 mil??

...and Alf batted lead off for the first 3 weeks of the season!

JS

Comments

  • ctsoxfanctsoxfan Posts: 6,246 ✭✭
    Wow - I had no idea it was that close. Soriano will probably wind up back in NY anyway, but it's not looking like a such great swap right now.

    Plus, if he kept Soriano, they wouldn't have the curse of A-Rod to deal with.
    image
  • AxtellAxtell Posts: 10,037 ✭✭
    Arod hands down.

    I know you are a huge Soriano fan stalin, but come on, who in their right mind wouldn't want a player who's going to hit his 400th HR before his 30th birthday, who's a gold glove at shortstop (and likely will win it at third), and is arguably the greatest player in the game today?

  • I think the arguement Axtell is that Arod gets that much money, compared to what Soriano makes. I have to agree with JS on this one, Arod is certainly not earning him money. When you get paid that much, you should be winning games for your team, not having another a-typical season. I think if Steinrenner ever had to shave money off his club (say for instance there was a salary cap), that would be the first guy he'd let go.
    Jay
  • Gemmy10Gemmy10 Posts: 2,990
    I have to admit for the money spent on A-Rod I also agree with JS but hey it's not my money.
  • AxtellAxtell Posts: 10,037 ✭✭
    Let's start with 2001, when soriano became a full time player.

    Soriano is batting .285 in that span, with 123 HRs, and 357 RBIs. His OPS is .820.

    Arod is batting .301, with 192 HRs, 501 RBIs, and OPS of .890.

    Arod has won an MVP in this time, and finished second once (both times on a last-place team). Arod won 2 gold gloves, and was a 4-time all star.

    Soriano hasn't even sniffed a top 10 MVP finish, 3 time all star, NO gold gloves.

    Yes, Soriano is a great value, but saying you'd rather have him over Arod is just showing your anti-Yankee sentiment too much. I despise the yankees as much as anyone, but Arod is the best player playing today.
  • joestalinjoestalin Posts: 12,473 ✭✭
    You missed the point. You put up all those stats but failed to mention that Soriano spent most of his time as a lead off
    hitter! He would naturally have less chances at RBI's...oh and he also made just 750,000 bucks his first year and a half
    in NY...Im not sure what Arod was making in Seattle but I think it was a bit more!

    You also failed to mention that Soriano was close to 40/40 both his first two years in the bigs..Ill give you Arod as far as defense, but
    speed can win you games too and at that price tag, he is better worth the money. Arod just aint getting it done since joining George!

    Kevin
  • AxtellAxtell Posts: 10,037 ✭✭


    << <i>You also failed to mention that Soriano was close to 40/40 both his first two years in the bigs..Ill give you Arod as far as defense, but
    speed can win you games too and at that price tag, he is better worth the money. Arod just aint getting it done since joining George!

    Kevin >>



    Man are you out of your mind? He hit 37 bombs last year, drove in over 100 runs, hit .287, all while adjusting to life as yankee and the incredible scrutiny that comes with playing as the biggest name with the most controversy?

    And after you're a year, you're saying 'he ain't getting it done'?

    He's leading the league in HR and RBI this year, and did something that only TEN other people in the history of the game have EVER done (10+ RBI in a game).

    And you still say he ain't getting it done?

    Are you really that delusional, or do you just play ignorant on these boards?
  • Gemmy10Gemmy10 Posts: 2,990
    Yes, Axtell Rose missed the point. But don't get on his case too badly. He needs to go back to 2nd grade for Reading Rubrics.
  • AxtellAxtell Posts: 10,037 ✭✭
    Spammy you truly are an idiot.

    If you had read my post:

    "Yes, Soriano is a great value..."

    What do you think Soriano is going to demand pricewise when his contract is up? You think it will be the same bargain basement prices he is getting now?

    You are comparing Arod after he signed his megadeal before Soriano signs his.

    All that being said, I still want the best player in the game, no matter the price difference between the two.
  • Gemmy10Gemmy10 Posts: 2,990
    <<I still want the best player in the game, no matter the price difference between the two.>>

    Axtell Rose, you can't have it both ways, Hypocrite with a capital "H".
  • AxtellAxtell Posts: 10,037 ✭✭
    Dude what are you talking about?

    I said yes, Soriano was a great value in the final year of his first contract.

    And then I said that no matter the price difference between soriano and arod, I still want arod.

    How is that hypocritical?

  • Gemmy10Gemmy10 Posts: 2,990
    Boss George would be damn proud of you.
  • AxtellAxtell Posts: 10,037 ✭✭


    << <i>Boss George would be damn proud of you. >>



    Way to dodge the question spam boy.

    I'll make it easy for you:

    "hypocrite

    n : a person who professes beliefs and opinions that he does not hold."

    Next time KNOW the meaning of a word before you try to use it and look all grown up, ok spammy?
  • Gemmy10Gemmy10 Posts: 2,990
    n : a person who professes beliefs and opinions that he does not hold."

    Axtell Rose does not like Boss George to spend a lot of money yet he "still wants the best player in the game, no matter the price difference"

    Hmmmmm. Sounds like a poster boy for a hypocrite to me.
  • AxtellAxtell Posts: 10,037 ✭✭


    << <i>n : a person who professes beliefs and opinions that he does not hold."

    Axtell Rose does not like Boss George to spend a lot of money yet he"still wants the best player in the game, no matter the price difference"

    Hmmmmm. Sounds like a poster boy for a hypocrite to me. >>



    Ugh. I feel like I am trying to teach a third grader here.

    I said that Arod is the best player in the game. And for the services of that player, I would pay the difference.

    I never said that paying the most money for EVERY position player was an admirable thing to do. Have I said that paying a 42 year old pitcher (your man crush big unit) $17 million a year was a smart investment? What about Kevin Brown's 15 million? Wrong again spam boy.

    There's a vast difference in affording the best player and foolishly spending $200 million (a la queen george).

  • joestalinjoestalin Posts: 12,473 ✭✭
    Soriano just crushed two more tonight...thats 4 homers in 2 nights!!

    Ax....Ill break it down as easy as it gets......if 7.5 mil get close to 40/40 stats...then shouldn't 25.7 mil get you 60 or 70 homers??? Or at least it
    should get you ring right?? Arod's bonehead slappy play last year cost his team when he needed it. You failed to mention that
    in your bevy of numbers.

    ...and actually Soriano already had a contact come up after his first two stellar years and he is now making less than a third of
    what Arod is making and is out hitting him!

    again, Ill ask and I hope I don't blow your mind with this, but if you were putting a team together and you didn't have George-like money
    to throw around, would you take Arod and his 10 homers for 25.7 mil or Soriano and his 10 homers for 7.5 mil??

    Let me know

    JS
  • AxtellAxtell Posts: 10,037 ✭✭


    << <i>
    again, Ill ask and I hope I don't blow your mind with this, but if you were putting a team together and you didn't have George-like money
    to throw around, would you take Arod and his 10 homers for 25.7 mil or Soriano and his 10 homers for 7.5 mil??

    Let me know

    JS >>



    That ISN'T what you said in your first post...you said " What would of been the better keep for Geroge??" (and yes, that's your misspelling, not mine).

    You said for the YANKEES which would have been a better fit, now you are trying to change your argument? Come on now, you can't change the debate halfway through.

    And did you forget the rangers are paying a goodly portion of Arod's contract? According to SI.com, the yankees are paying $16 million per, not $25 million per. So essentially the yankees are paying double for Soriano, and Soriano is a free agent after next year. If Soriano is going to continue his numbers as is (and doesn't look he will slow down), he will command close to $15 million per year.

    So Stalin, when you are ready to debate in a conventional manner (meaning one in which you don't change the topic midway through), let me know.

    edit: completely forgot to add in what the rangers are paying of Arod's salary to Sorianos...which works out to $9.5 million per. So they yankees are paying Arod $16million per year, the Rangers are (in essence) paying Soriano $17 million per year.

    So yeah, I'd rather have Arod.

  • Gemmy10Gemmy10 Posts: 2,990
    joestalin, you did not change the subject. Axtell Rose is rationalizing and making up stories yet once again.
  • joestalinjoestalin Posts: 12,473 ✭✭
    ahhh actually that is what I said in my first post, it took me to put it in sentence form for you to understand, or at least your mom
    to understand enough to tell you what it meant!

    I wouldn't expect disgruntled Mariner fan to understand this, afterall you had two of the greatest offensive hitters of the decade and
    one of the greatest pitchers and still couldn't do squat. Now you have Ichiro the wonder player and when you finally make it
    to the playoffs you lie down like girls!

    Soriano is a beast, you know if George could do it over he would rather of had Soriano running down the first base line in that
    ALCS game rather than purse carrying, panty wearing Arod...slapping at their first basemen like a 14 year girl.

    Perhaps your Mariner's Arod jersey is getting to tight...maybe you need to trade it in for a Joel Pineiro or something.....maybe something in
    a....we win the divison every year shirt...

    Its never too late to get on the Alf badwagon Axy! LMK if you need some cards or something!


    JS
  • CardsFanCardsFan Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭
    A major point that I haven't seen brought up is defense. Even though A-Rod has made a couple of crucial errors he far and away a better fielder. Soriano is now getting the benefit of the ballpark at Arlington which is much easier to hit in then Yankee stadium. I agree that Soriano is the value pick but the Yanks don't care much about value. I think the better question would be would you rather have Soriano or Jose Reyes, who the Mets refused to give up for Soriano before the season started last year.
  • AxtellAxtell Posts: 10,037 ✭✭
    Stalin-

    No wonder people say you're nuts. You try to insult my intelligence or ability to understand your posts, yet you misspell and out-of-context your entire post!

    In your first post, did you not say 'who would George rather have?' that would imply essentially unlimited funds? Then you say 'if you didn't have George money'?

    Tell me how that isn't changing the basis of the debate?

    Also, tell me how you feel that Arod is costing the yankees the same amount of money that Soriano is costing the Rangers? Why won't you answer the questions? Is it because I've shot down your argument?

    Look, Arod isn't costing the Yankees 25 million this year. As stated before, Texas is picking up over 9.5 million per year for the rest of his contract. So take that 9.5 from 25 and you end up 15.5 million, right? (I am trying to go slow...basic math must be a tough course for you to understand). Ok, so now you take Soriano's contract, 7.5 million (By your own numbers!), and add in that 9.5 that texas is paying for Arod's deal, and you come up with Soriano costing the rangers 16 million per year.

    So now, who would you rather have:

    Arod at 15.5 million per year
    Soriano at 16 million per year?

    AND DON'T DODGE THE QUESTION THIS TIME!

  • joestalinjoestalin Posts: 12,473 ✭✭
    where in my first post did I mention the Texas Rangers??? Who cares what they are paying who, Arod takes home 25 mil and
    Soriano less than a third of that! What- now you are telling me that 25 mil should get you a ring but 16 mil...urrrr you are not so sure???

    LOL, come on, I know you aren't that stupid. You have a secret Arod fetish and you don't want anyone to know about it, ok I won't
    tell, but why can't you see that both are leading the league in homers yet one is paid 3 times what the other is? You think
    even the George can see that?? You think George is seeing "value" in Arod, when his only decent home grown player in the last
    5 years also has the same number of home runs but could of been had at 1/3 rd the price??

    So when you are done clowning around with all the numbers, telling me which bank in Texas is paying which player, then maybe you
    can address the fact that Soriano is matching Arod in all the major offensive stats, yet is getting much less money.

    .....and no one here cares about spelling, the only people who bring that up are people who don't want any part of the argument! Stick to the
    argument, admit you are wrong, and then go have a tea party with your blow-up Arod doll. You are finished here.

    JS
  • AxtellAxtell Posts: 10,037 ✭✭


    << <i>where in my first post did I mention the Texas Rangers??? Who cares what they are paying who, Arod takes home 25 mil and
    Soriano less than a third of that! What- now you are telling me that 25 mil should get you a ring but 16 mil...urrrr you are not so sure???

    >>



    Joe-

    I am going to go reallllly slow, just for you.

    Your argument was 'what would have been the better keep for George'

    then you listed their stats and salaries, implying that George is paying Arod 25 million this year. HE ISN'T. He is paying Arod the SAME AMOUNT OF MONEY as Soriano. I know the math is tough for you to understand, but who in their right mind wouldn't take Arod over Soriano if the cost to them was the same?

    Then you tried to change the argument and say 'well if you didn't have George's money, who would be a better value?' That still doesn't change the answer. Both players are costing their teams EXACTLY the same. You can't just look at their salaries to determine their value, you have to look at what it's actually costing their teams.

    Look, Joe, you sit there and try to say I have some sort of fetish for Arod, well, I think the same could be said about you and Soriano. You want to sit there and compare him to one of the greatest players playing today is well, foolish.

    I can't put it any more simply than I have Joe. Your lack of basic mathmatical understanding prohibits me from simplifying this any further.

    I'd like to ask any outsiders reading this (and if there aren't any, I dont blame you...Joe's incoherent ramblings and failure to connect the most basic of concepts is tiring)....if the Rangers are paying a good portion of Arod's annual contract (approximately $9.5 million annually), wouldn't you say that Arod's cost to the Yankees would be ($25million - that $9.5) equalling $15.5 million? And then wouldn't you say that $9.5 cost should be added to Soriano's contract to come up with about the same figure?

  • when a team arod is on wins a championship(which will be never) he will be worth the money he is making,until then he's just not worth it. he is a great player,but not a great team player.the yankees would have been better with soriano and any decent 3rd basemen on that team. also,no one thinks arod is the best player in baseball in 2005.
  • Gemmy10Gemmy10 Posts: 2,990
    <<no one thinks arod is the best player in baseball in 2005.>>

    Axtell Rose does. Oh, I forgot you said no one.
  • StingrayStingray Posts: 8,843 ✭✭✭
    All this arguing just makes me want to puke, forget those two we have the best player here in Detroit - Carlos Guillen!

    Stingray
  • KOBEcollectorKOBEcollector Posts: 3,873 ✭✭
    Your all wrong

    The best player thus far has been Dontrell Willis

    6-0

    1.07 ERA

    0.86 WHIP

    8 BB - 35 K's

    3 CG
  • VLADDY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    The best there is, the best there was and the best there ever will be!!!
    Jay
  • AxtellAxtell Posts: 10,037 ✭✭
    Spammy-

    When are you EVER going to contribute something useful to a discussion, instead of making stupid, childish comments?

    I think you and stalin would make great friends in real life.
  • markglickermarkglicker Posts: 1,486
    Alphonso.
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