heritage bullet vs signature auctions

mhammerman

It seems from perusing the history on my series that signature auction coins go for 20%-30% more than the bullet auctions. The coins seem to be in similar conditions (ms 61 & 62) so this price difference is a bit of an anomaly. Do the signature auctions just bring more because there is competitive live bidding on the floor and the bidders have buyers at certain levels? Why do the bullet and internet only coins bring less than signature coins? Hummmmmm...anyone got an answer to this one?

Longacre

I just think there is less competition. Sometimes you can get a good deal in the bullet auctions. I also think a lot of time items that did not sell in the signature auctions are offered in a bullet.

RYK

My admittedly elitist opinion is that the Bullet Auctions are the "sloppy seconds" for the Signature Auctions.

yellowjacket

Bullet Auctions are geared more for dealers in how the coins are featured and catalogued. Groupings and opportunities for dealers to view the lots at major shows without the live floor bidding, make them appealing to dealers. Lower prices, though.

mozin

<< <i>My admittedly elitist opinion is that the Bullet Auctions are the "sloppy seconds" for the Signature Auctions. >>

You got it!

Elcontador

Agree w RYK.
1) There aren't as many lots offered in the Bullet Sales
2) They typically aren't described nearly as well as the Signature lots
3) You can get a lot consultation from a numismatist re Signature lots
4) I find that the selection in the Bullet Sale is much poorer than the Signature lots, and
that as a % of the total, there are more ugly coins in the Bullet than Signature sales.

Boom

Since I recently endured the sale of a Registry Set at the Long Beach Sale this past Feb- March, allow me to share with you how it really is. I am speaking of an 83 coin PCGS Washington Quarter Registry set, OK?

First there was the Internet Exclusively part of the sale. In this venue were all the lesser valued pieces, something like 60 out of the 83, although they graded PCGS 66 and a few 65s. They were...shall we say, the more "common" pieces.

I should first say that I only put reserves on coins I felt merited it. If I were to give you advice I would not out ANYTHING to any auction without reserves because the lesser valued few which I did not place reserves on were practically stolen from me with a couple actually selling for $1, with of course Heritage's 15% Buyers' Fees and S/H tacked on. This literally made me nauseous.

The second part of the sale was the Signature Sale. The pieces that went into this venue were all the expensive key dates and mint marks ( the MOST expensive coins). By then you'd better believe I'd learned my lesson and placed reserves on the 11 keys which brought in the biggest of the 3 checks.

The Bullet Sale was comprised of the mid range semi key coins...not common but not the most expensive either. I believe there were roughly 10 coins that fell into this group and yes...I placed reserves on all of these as well. All but two sold and the weird part of it all is this. When placing reserves, you the seller become high bidder. In the event your reserves are not met, you are high bidder and buy your own coins back at 15% of your reserve.

There is also a part in the agreement that states, in so many words, that once you've consigned you've basically lost ownership and cannot change your mind. I do not think I want to endure this again any time soon. My own coins I had to buyback for 15%. Either 9 or 11 didn't meet the reserves yet the odd thing about all this is once I had them back in my posession I sold them for considerably more than the reserves that were not net at the auction! Go figure!!

That Numismedia sheet and studying recent completed auction results are good places to start your reserves as seemingly all who attend these auctions are educated greysheet toting collectors or dealers. I find it better to sell on my own because from the buyers' viewpoint they MUST take into account the 15% juice that is going to get tacked on and will lowball everything they get the chance to do so on.

The real winner at these auctions is Heritage. They make sellers' fees, buyers' fees and or buyback fees on things they do not even own. What a novel cocept....making 20% (at least) on any and eveything they sell, yet own nothing. BE CAREFUL... BE SURE YOU READ THAT AGREEMENT AND FULLY COMMPREHEND IT because once YOUR coins switch hands you have lost control of them and cannot call all bets off and get your coins back!

northcoin

Boom - a welcomed report. Somehow I suspect there are other auction houses out there that would be more accomodating.

Barry

I should first say that I only put reserves on coins I felt merited it. If I were to give you advice I would not out ANYTHING to any auction without reserves because the lesser valued few which I did not place reserves on were practically stolen from me with a couple actually selling for $1, with of course Heritage's 15% Buyers' Fees and S/H tacked on. This literally made me nauseous.

The problem with their Internet Only auctions, as I see it, is bidders only have the pictures to go by, and we know the quality of Heritage's pictures. At least in the Signature and Bullet sales, floor bidders can get live view of the coins.

Keyrock

The Signature autions are also posted 3-4 weeks in advance of the other auctions, thus longer exposure time. These are the coins (I feel) Heritage thinks the big dollars will come from and want the people to constantly view, drive up bids etc...

Once the Signature is established along comes the bullet to finish killing your wallet (14 to 10 days advance posting). Maybe you don't get that 65, but the bullet has a 64, 63 or 62 so you pick that up out of frustration.

Then the weekly auction to drain a little more money from you, followed by the overlapping continuous auctions (raiding the kids piggy bank now).

RYK

...Then the weekly auction to drain a little more money from you, followed by the overlapping continuous auctions (raiding the kids piggy bank now).

The problem for me is that there is so much stuff coming at me from Heritage that it is much easier to tune out all of it than to make the effort to check out any of it.

Longacre

Boom--

Very interesting post. Thanks for sharing the details.