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ICG 1909-S V.D.B. AU-58 Will it Cross? Updated with Grade

MJPHELANMJPHELAN Posts: 799 ✭✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum
What do you lincoln experts think? Will it cross to PCGS, and what grade will it cross at? My guess is AU-50. It has wood grain toning. There is some original cartwheel luster on the reverse. Thanks for your input.

image

image

The coin not only crossed, but it is graded MS-63BN!
Mark

Comments

  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 34,758 ✭✭✭✭✭
    This rates a C- for eye appeal. It does not matter to me what grade they put on it, it's not my kind of coin.

    Maybe the light is too harsh, but the coin looks cleaned to me. I know a far number of these coins have woodgrain toning, this looks like a combination of cleaned and woodgrain.
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • MJPHELANMJPHELAN Posts: 799 ✭✭✭
    The light is giving it the washed out look. It is darker in hand.
    Mark
  • WaterSportWaterSport Posts: 6,911 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I would give it a go. ICG crosses for me have been better than some of the other TPGS>

    Ws
    Proud recipient of the coveted PCGS Forum "You Suck" Award Thursday July 19, 2007 11:33 PM and December 30th, 2011 at 8:50 PM.
  • djmdjm Posts: 1,565 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Every time I have cracked out a ICG AU-58, it has come back as PCGS MS-62.
  • prooflikeprooflike Posts: 3,879 ✭✭
    it might even 55... I like it, it has interesting toning.
    image
  • MJPHELANMJPHELAN Posts: 799 ✭✭✭
    This one is not MS. There is definately a slight rub on the high points.

    Mark
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 34,758 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>This one is not MS. There is definately a slight rub on the high points. >>



    That doesn't stop the services from putting coins with a rub in MS-61 or 62 holders.
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • MJPHELANMJPHELAN Posts: 799 ✭✭✭
    Appreciate the input. It will go in next week.
    Mark
  • ERER Posts: 7,345 ✭
    Crackout, it'll come back 62.
    Crossover, it'll come back 50. Just my guess.
  • ziggy29ziggy29 Posts: 18,668 ✭✭✭
    Regardless of personal opinion of the eye appeal, in terms of technical grade it looks fine to me (though I'm not sure a crossover would still get a 58 designation).

    In my experience, ICG 58s are among the best anywhere, and if I may be so blasphemous to say so, I think the average ICG 58 is better than the average PCGS 58 -- at least based on coins I've seen.
  • Dennis88Dennis88 Posts: 5,797 ✭✭✭
    give it a shot....image
    VOC Numismatics
    Like VOC Numismatics on facebook
  • dorkkarldorkkarl Posts: 12,691 ✭✭✭
    i absolutely adore the woodgrain effect on early lincolns.

    K S
  • MadMartyMadMarty Posts: 16,697 ✭✭✭
    Ask Cameron!!
    It is not exactly cheating, I prefer to consider it creative problem solving!!!

  • ERER Posts: 7,345 ✭


    << <i>Ask Cameron!! >>

    image
  • merz2merz2 Posts: 2,474 ✭
    Based on the pic,I'd say yes it will cross.As to grade the pics aren't good enough to determine that.A guess would be XF45 or AU50 at best. The woodgrain look is common.
    Don
    Registry 1909-1958 Proof Lincolns
  • yellowjacketyellowjacket Posts: 1,809 ✭
    Doesn't look natural to me. PCGS is funny about anything unusual. "Altered surfaces" is a fave for their BB coins. That's my bet for this coin.
    YJ
  • jdimmickjdimmick Posts: 9,772 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I am not a big fan of woodgrain effect lincolns, but I agree the coin looks technically thier. I would crack and submit for an unbiased grading at PCGS. Sometimes they are funny about crossing ICG coins, especially with different type surfaces such as this coin, even though I have to agree with the other poster that a few ICGS graded lincolns are better than several grade the same in PCGS holders .

    jim
  • carlcarl Posts: 2,054 ✭
    The obverse appears as AU50 but the Reverse appears as at least AU58 or above.
    Carl
  • OuthaulOuthaul Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>This rates a C- for eye appeal. It does not matter to me what grade they put on it, it's not my kind of coin. >>


    Bill,

    In my opinion, there are far more collectors out there for this coin who just want to own one than there are who are concerned about the appearance.

    As long as it's authentic, most people chasing S-VDB's couldn't care less.

    I'm chasing a 55/55 and I don't care if it's sporting a dose of the green clap...if it's authentic, and the price is right, I'd consider it.

    Personally, I'm with you...it's just okay.

    Cheers,

    Bob
  • MJPHELANMJPHELAN Posts: 799 ✭✭✭
    I too would actually give it a C for eye appeal overall. I'm putting away a circulated example for all of my kids. I prefer to have them in a PCGS holder so that they will be more liquid in the future (My wife prefers my coins to be in PCGS holders so that they will be easy to sell if I go first).
    Mark
  • MJPHELANMJPHELAN Posts: 799 ✭✭✭
    Don't have the coin in hand yet, but it graded MS-63BN!!
    Mark
  • TAP444TAP444 Posts: 824
    way to go , congrats
    tim
    LOOKING FOR 1931-s merc that is nice for the grade and fb
  • ERER Posts: 7,345 ✭
    CONGRATS Mark.image
    The question is, does this grade change your mind about your original guess of AU-50?
  • MJPHELANMJPHELAN Posts: 799 ✭✭✭
    I'm not a lincoln expert, but I thought there was rub on the obverse. The reverse has nice luster. I will post a high resolution photo when I get it back.
    Mark
  • Coinhusker1Coinhusker1 Posts: 3,560 ✭
    Congrats!! image Nice little bump in value there!!
  • KurtHornKurtHorn Posts: 1,382 ✭
    I just had an 1932-S Washington Cross from an ICG 53 to an NGC 58.... Outside of moderns, ICG can be very conservative. Especially in circ stuff.
    "Don't bother just to be better than your contemporaries or predecessors. Try to be better than yourself." - William Faulkner
    NoEbayAuctionsForNow
  • 7summits7summits Posts: 316 ✭✭
    Mark, did you crack it out or not??????? image
    image
  • MJPHELANMJPHELAN Posts: 799 ✭✭✭
    I cracked it out. I felt good enough about the surfaces. I really expected an AU grade. I'll pass on the presidential review.
    Mark
  • fivecentsfivecents Posts: 11,207 ✭✭✭✭✭
    From ICG to PCGS with a 5 point upgrade.image You da man!!image
  • OldnewbieOldnewbie Posts: 1,425 ✭✭
    PCGS sure is tight these days.
  • RedneckHBRedneckHB Posts: 19,658 ✭✭✭✭✭
    cha-ching!!!image
    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • Coinhusker1Coinhusker1 Posts: 3,560 ✭


    << <i>I'll pass on the presidential review. >>



    image
  • flaminioflaminio Posts: 5,664 ✭✭✭


    << <i>The coin not only crossed, but it is graded MS-63BN! >>

    But ... how can that be? The kool-aid drinking dealers always told me that ICG sucks. Does this mean that I've been deceived?
  • NumisOxideNumisOxide Posts: 10,997 ✭✭✭✭✭
    That's a nice grade to get from AU58.image
  • totofrotototofroto Posts: 45


    << <i>

    << <i>The coin not only crossed, but it is graded MS-63BN! >>

    But ... how can that be? The kool-aid drinking dealers always told me that ICG sucks. Does this mean that I've been deceived? >>



    image it is a conspiracyimage
  • nccoinnccoin Posts: 606


    << <i>Don't have the coin in hand yet, but it graded MS-63BN!! >>

    That is a generous grade. I was thinking in the 58 range with 62 the very highest. I guess it is time to send in some of my Lincolns!
  • ERER Posts: 7,345 ✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>The coin not only crossed, but it is graded MS-63BN! >>

    But ... how can that be? The kool-aid drinking dealers always told me that ICG sucks. Does this mean that I've been deceived? >>



    image it is a conspiracyimage >>



    Toto, you've been right all along.imageimage
  • totofrotototofroto Posts: 45


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>The coin not only crossed, but it is graded MS-63BN! >>

    But ... how can that be? The kool-aid drinking dealers always told me that ICG sucks. Does this mean that I've been deceived? >>



    image it is a conspiracyimage >>



    Toto, you've been right all along.imageimage >>



    of course I am right.Those dealers just say that so they can get good ICG coins and send them to PCGS.Let me tell you I just got a stunning mercury dime 4 days ago.This sucker is toned and beautiful.PCI certified and I got it at a RIP price.I should send it to PCGS just to make a nice sum of money.Some folks are funny how they wouldn't touch that merc in PCI but get it into PCGS they will pawn off there first born.
  • Coinhusker1Coinhusker1 Posts: 3,560 ✭


    << <i>of course I am right.Those dealers just say that so they can get good ICG coins and send them to PCGS.Let me tell you I just got a stunning mercury dime 4 days ago.This sucker is toned and beautiful.PCI certified and I got it at a RIP price.I should send it to PCGS just to make a nice sum of money.Some folks are funny how they wouldn't touch that merc in PCI but get it into PCGS they will pawn off there first born. >>



    Were they the old green PCI holders or the gold ones?
  • AlaBillAlaBill Posts: 467
    I might have to start looking at ICG coins. I have stayed away from them until now.
    ...AlaBill
  • DJCDJC Posts: 787 ✭


    << <i>I might have to start looking at ICG coins. I have stayed away from them until now. >>



    Don't stay away from ICG, or ANACS for that matter. Haven't had that much luck with other services, except an occasional SEGS or PCI. You will come across some overgraded pieces, but compared to the accurately graded beauties you'll also find (for a fraction of if in an NGC or PCGS holder sometimes), you'll regret it. Be careful, grade it yourself, and you'll find tons of nice coins in ANACS and ICG plastic, and save money.

    Holder makes no difference to me anyway. They're all getting cracked out and placed in albums. image
  • ziggy29ziggy29 Posts: 18,668 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I might have to start looking at ICG coins. I have stayed away from them until now. >>

    Please continue to stay away. I don't want the competition.

    Seriously, though, ICG is seriously underrated as a service when we're not talking about high-grade mint-state coins. They are too lenient with grades above 64, but for low mint state and circulated coins, they're as good as anyone. It's my experience that ICG AU-58 coins are generally the nicest and most typically a "true" slider than any other TPG.
  • mgoodm3mgoodm3 Posts: 17,497 ✭✭✭
    Nice outcome
    coinimaging.com/my photography articles Check out the new macro lens testing section

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