Options
Bonds may retire????
CardsFan
Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭
in Sports Talk
Bonds story
Out for awhile and I heard on ESPN radio they were talking about him maybe retiring. I bet all those people who bought tickets trying to time his historic home run are dissappointed.
Out for awhile and I heard on ESPN radio they were talking about him maybe retiring. I bet all those people who bought tickets trying to time his historic home run are dissappointed.
0
Comments
<< <i>Bonds story
Out for awhile and I heard on ESPN radio they were talking about him maybe retiring. I bet all those people who bought tickets trying to time his historic home run are dissappointed. >>
Bonds will start the season late, but he will still play this year. He has too big of an ego not to surpass Aaron. Plus, time is against him. If he misses a season, it will have a material effect on his HR chase. He is just trying to create a drama and so is the media.
Remember these Chuck Norris Facts
1. When Chuck Norris does a pushup, he isn't lifting himself up, he's pushing the Earth down
2. According to Einstein's theory of relativity, Chuck Norris can actually roundhouse kick you yesterday
3. There are no such things as lesbians, just women who have not yet met Chuck Norris
I guess the steroids have caught up to him?
<< <i> I guess the steroids have caught up to him? >>
As usual, your comments about the effects of steroids are just that....GUESSES. Randy Johnson also underwent knee surgery, so I guess he must be on steroids, too.
Remember these Chuck Norris Facts
1. When Chuck Norris does a pushup, he isn't lifting himself up, he's pushing the Earth down
2. According to Einstein's theory of relativity, Chuck Norris can actually roundhouse kick you yesterday
3. There are no such things as lesbians, just women who have not yet met Chuck Norris
<< <i>
<< <i> I guess the steroids have caught up to him? >>
As usual, your comments about the effects of steroids are just that....GUESSES. Randy Johnson also underwent knee surgery, so I guess he must be on steroids, too. >>
Uhm I guess Bonds TESTIFYING (!!) under oath that he took steroids (unknowingly, yeah right) doesn't mean anything to the unenlightened and ignorant masses.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i> I guess the steroids have caught up to him? >>
As usual, your comments about the effects of steroids are just that....GUESSES. Randy Johnson also underwent knee surgery, so I guess he must be on steroids, too. >>
Uhm I guess Bonds TESTIFYING (!!) under oath that he took steroids (unknowingly, yeah right) doesn't mean anything to the unenlightened and ignorant masses. >>
Testifying under oath that he used steroids and a knee injury and subsequent knee surgery are completely different events. Putting forth a "cause-effect" comment that steroids caused his knee injury is plain ignorant.
Remember these Chuck Norris Facts
1. When Chuck Norris does a pushup, he isn't lifting himself up, he's pushing the Earth down
2. According to Einstein's theory of relativity, Chuck Norris can actually roundhouse kick you yesterday
3. There are no such things as lesbians, just women who have not yet met Chuck Norris
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i> I guess the steroids have caught up to him? >>
As usual, your comments about the effects of steroids are just that....GUESSES. Randy Johnson also underwent knee surgery, so I guess he must be on steroids, too. >>
Uhm I guess Bonds TESTIFYING (!!) under oath that he took steroids (unknowingly, yeah right) doesn't mean anything to the unenlightened and ignorant masses. >>
Testifying under oath that he used steroids and a knee injury and subsequent knee surgery are completely different events. Putting forth a "cause-effect" comment that steroids caused his knee injury is plain ignorant. >>
Who used 'cause-effect' statements? I simply hypothesized...but the Bonds-backers will always overreact and read more into what was said than actually was.
<< <i>comment that steroids caused his knee injury is plain ignorant. >>
much of what is said here by any of us on almost any topic is ignorant. that is the funny part. we are all "forum jockeys" and have no real idea what is actually happening in these situations. and remember that opinions are like ass holes, every body has one (some around here just seem to have diaraha!)_
<< <i>at the minimum, he'll want to pass the "white" guy. >>
who is the white guy of which you speak? - everyone knows that Ruth was just a light skinned black man that "passed" - that is how he did so much better than all the geeky white dudes playing against him. You know it is true - just look at him really really closely. you will see it.
<< <i>Who used 'cause-effect' statements? I simply hypothesized...but the Bonds-backers will always overreact and read more into what was said than actually was. >>
I love Barry as a player (esp. the roided version), but don't care much for him as a person. He tends to blame everyone for everything and seems to motivate himself as a result. But people on this board (you esp.) tend to think that sticking one roid needle somewhere in a body causes someone to fall apart immediately and die. Just not true.
Remember these Chuck Norris Facts
1. When Chuck Norris does a pushup, he isn't lifting himself up, he's pushing the Earth down
2. According to Einstein's theory of relativity, Chuck Norris can actually roundhouse kick you yesterday
3. There are no such things as lesbians, just women who have not yet met Chuck Norris
<< <i>
<< <i>Who used 'cause-effect' statements? I simply hypothesized...but the Bonds-backers will always overreact and read more into what was said than actually was. >>
I love Barry as a player (esp. the roided version), but don't care much for him as a person. He tends to blame everyone for everything and seems to motivate himself as a result. But people on this board (you esp.) tend to think that sticking one roid needle somewhere in a body causes someone to fall apart immediately and die. Just not true. >>
Anyone can look at the breakdown of steroid users late in their career (Sosa, McGwire, now Bonds) and it's not a tough jump in logic to see the effects steroids have on breaking down these athletes.
And do you think honestly these roid users did roids one time? They just don't work that way. These users have used for a long time to maintain their strength.
But I suppose having a debate with those blind to facts is pointless...isn't it mega?
<< <i>Who used 'cause-effect' statements? I simply hypothesized >>
Mickey Mantle - big guy, retired because of chronic knee problems. Juiced? I don't think so.
unless you think the Mick was roided hypothesis false.
Mark McGwire - really big guy, retired because of knee problems and a long list of other injuries more then likely juiced.
hypothesis holds up.
Countless number of other players who juiced and did not retire because of knee problems and countless number of players who retired because of knee problem who were not juiced I think destroys your hypothesis. IMO there was no reason to bring it up.
<< <i> IMO there was no reason to bring it up. >>
Yes, let's not question as to why Bonds, who has seen but one serious injury in his career, is suddenly breaking down after an MVP season last year.
Let's not show that there are dire consequences to be paid for those athletes who wish to indulge in steroid use. If Bonds was a true man he'd fess up in public, say yes, I juiced, and this is what is happening to my body as a consquence.
But we all know he can't even admit to himself that he knowingly took steroids, let alone fess up to it in public. That he is so highly regarded by so many fans sickens me. Not only is he a grade-A jerk to everyone, he sets the wrong example for kids looking to sports heroes.
I think anything that brings the dangers of steroid use to light (and yes, the big name athletes' bodies breaking down is part of that) is a great thing.
<< <i>Yes, let's not question as to why Bonds, who has seen but one serious injury in his career, is suddenly breaking down after an MVP season last year. >>
The problem is that the guy is 40+ years old. Steriods or not your body begins to break down at a certain age, especially if you are an athlete. So there is no way to directly say it is just steroids. Sure he had a career year last year but did you see him run around in the outfield? There is a reason athletes usually retire before they reach 40, because their bodies can no longer take it.
<< <i>I think anything that brings the dangers of steroid use to light (and yes, the big name athletes' bodies breaking down is part of that) is a great thing. >>
If you want a poster boy for the ills of steriods then use Giambi. Someone in the height of his career who had serious health issues that can most likely be attributed to steriods.
<< <i> I think anything that brings the dangers of steroid use to light (and yes, the big name athletes' bodies breaking down is part of that) is a great thing. >>
Like everything else, too much of something can do damage. You seem so focused on steroids and neglect the effects of alcohol and tobacco. I won't reason with your ignorance any longer, because I won't sink to that level. I have studied the effects of steroids for approximately five years and can say that there are negative effects, but it is no where near what alcohol abuse, drug abuse, and tobacco abuse can do to your body. Proper administration and regular checkups, coupled with high quality steroids can actually improve the health of an individual.
Bringing up the health issue will cause you to lose 99.9% of the time. Steroids were not banned for health reasons, but for "cheating" reasons after the 1988 Olympic scandal.
However, it is fruitless to get that into your propaganda infested mind. Believe what you will. It is what America stands for even if those ideals are represented by a bunch of idiots.
All those ignorant souls ready to commit their lives to the preaching of Minister Axtell, please follow him to the hallowed gates of saving human lives from the effects of steroids. The individual is on a mission.
Remember these Chuck Norris Facts
1. When Chuck Norris does a pushup, he isn't lifting himself up, he's pushing the Earth down
2. According to Einstein's theory of relativity, Chuck Norris can actually roundhouse kick you yesterday
3. There are no such things as lesbians, just women who have not yet met Chuck Norris
Do you think Bonds would walk away because he doesn't want to deal with media scrutinity as he nears the record? With Balco coming out he knows that people have a reason to root against him breaking the record now more then ever, I can imagine he may get more death threats then Hank did. Bad knees could be a convienent way to walk away from the game.
<< <i>To get this thread back on track-
Do you think Bonds would walk away because he doesn't want to deal with media scrutinity as he nears the record? With Balco coming out he knows that people have a reason to root against him breaking the record now more then ever, I can imagine he may get more death threats then Hank did. Bad knees could be a convienent way to walk away from the game. >>
I don't think Bonds cares about the media. He justs wants to be the best at any cost. However, it is interesting that the phrase "mid season" keeps coming up. By coincidence, that is the approximate time frame that would possibly allow him (depending on what he was on) to clear his system for steroid testing. Does anyone know if the steroid policy applies to those on the DL as well as active roster?
Remember these Chuck Norris Facts
1. When Chuck Norris does a pushup, he isn't lifting himself up, he's pushing the Earth down
2. According to Einstein's theory of relativity, Chuck Norris can actually roundhouse kick you yesterday
3. There are no such things as lesbians, just women who have not yet met Chuck Norris
One thing you guys do need to know about steroids and building muscles is that ligaments and tendons do have a tendency to break down because of the unnatural load they are being forced to carry. Axtell is partly correct in saying steroids could have caused it. Steroids itself may not cause the problems, but the fact that muscles are being built up bigger than what the body is built for can certainly cause lots of ligament and joint problems, hence more breakdowns.
<< <i> By coincidence, that is the approximate time frame that would possibly allow him (depending on what he was on) to clear his system for steroid testing. >>
Interesting theory. I can't believe it takes them that long to get out of your system. Isn't there anything you can take to hurry the process? I'm used to regular illegal drugs where it is a month tops.
Skinpinch, you were smart not to take him, luckily my drafts haven't started yet. I may try to get him cheap and hope he comes back for the second half.
<< <i>
All those ignorant souls ready to commit their lives to the preaching of Minister Axtell, please follow him to the hallowed gates of saving human lives from the effects of steroids. The individual is on a mission. >>
Wow I must have hit a sore spot with you?
All I asked was if this was the effects of the steroids breaking down Bonds' body. It was a hypothetical question that those who are either too ignorant or too blind to understand.
I think the general feeling in America is that we want these athletes to come clean about what they did, not pushing it away. Look at how the general public has come behind Giambi...he admitted he screwed up, he's asked for forgiveness, and he wasn't arrogant or in your face about denying it.
Does anyone remember the stigma in this country the communist countries' athletes faced in the 80s? Does anyone remember the whispers about so many of them being juiced, or using chemicals that were against the rules? How ironic is it that our best athletes (not just in baseball, but in track and field too) have now reveresed those roles.
Mega-nice attempt at derailing the post about steroid use, but I doubt anyone would classify alcohol and tobacco as performance enhancing.
Some steroids are oil based (more potent, but take longer to leave), while others are water based. Things get more complicated as you define ingestion methods. Oral is very toxic for your liver (depending on steroid), but leaves quicker. Needle is not toxic, but takes longer (this is why I assume most players took a needle - lower risks and who cares if traces remained since no testing was available anyway). Topical (what Barry took) is an animal all into itself. Add in the "drug designers" whose job is to stay one step ahead of detection, and who knows how long that stuff stays in your system. And even if it does, will a test detect it?
Remember these Chuck Norris Facts
1. When Chuck Norris does a pushup, he isn't lifting himself up, he's pushing the Earth down
2. According to Einstein's theory of relativity, Chuck Norris can actually roundhouse kick you yesterday
3. There are no such things as lesbians, just women who have not yet met Chuck Norris
<< <i>
<< <i>
All those ignorant souls ready to commit their lives to the preaching of Minister Axtell, please follow him to the hallowed gates of saving human lives from the effects of steroids. The individual is on a mission. >>
Wow I must have hit a sore spot with you?
All I asked was if this was the effects of the steroids breaking down Bonds' body. It was a hypothetical question that those who are either too ignorant or too blind to understand.
I think the general feeling in America is that we want these athletes to come clean about what they did, not pushing it away. Look at how the general public has come behind Giambi...he admitted he screwed up, he's asked for forgiveness, and he wasn't arrogant or in your face about denying it.
Does anyone remember the stigma in this country the communist countries' athletes faced in the 80s? Does anyone remember the whispers about so many of them being juiced, or using chemicals that were against the rules? How ironic is it that our best athletes (not just in baseball, but in track and field too) have now reveresed those roles.
Mega-nice attempt at derailing the post about steroid use, but I doubt anyone would classify alcohol and tobacco as performance enhancing. >>
I have no problem with getting steroids out of the game to clean its image. I prefer a steroids based game, but I'm fine with a clean playing field - although i think it is impossible.
However, bringing in health related issues related to steroids just makes me laugh at how hypocritical people and this government really are.
Remember these Chuck Norris Facts
1. When Chuck Norris does a pushup, he isn't lifting himself up, he's pushing the Earth down
2. According to Einstein's theory of relativity, Chuck Norris can actually roundhouse kick you yesterday
3. There are no such things as lesbians, just women who have not yet met Chuck Norris
<< <i>Mega-nice attempt at derailing the post about steroid use, but I doubt anyone would classify alcohol and tobacco as performance enhancing. >>
This thread wasn't about steroids until you brought it up. Now like every baseball thread you've turned into steriods argument.
Megatron, sometimes I wonder if you are pro or anti Bonds. Sometimes he is cheating, and other posts you say you like him as a player??? Don't get me wrong, your posts make sense and raise some good points but it appears that you go back and forth on the Bonds issue.
Bonds is drained. He knows what is coming ... in visiting ballparks, on every swing, and in the courtroom. It is coming, and it is coming fast.
Although it is quite possible that he really is injured, does anyone really not think that his steroid controversy is not the MAIN reason?
<< <i>Randy Johnson also underwent knee surgery, so I guess he must be on steroids, too.
Megatron, sometimes I wonder if you are pro or anti Bonds. Sometimes he is cheating, and other posts you say you like him as a player??? Don't get me wrong, your posts make sense and raise some good points but it appears that you go back and forth on the Bonds issue.
Bonds is drained. He knows what is coming ... in visiting ballparks, on every swing, and in the courtroom. It is coming, and it is coming fast.
Although it is quite possible that he really is injured, does anyone really not think that his steroid controversy is not the MAIN reason? >>
This is where I stand on Bonds. I have absolutely nothing against him for taking steroids. As a matter of fact, I applaud him if the steroids/growth hormone were administered in a safe dosage and taken in a responsible manner. I prefer to watch a bigger Bonds hit mammoth home runs because I find it more entertaining even if he has become a liability in the field and on the base paths.
As a person, I'm not too keen on him. I stated a long time ago (one of the first) to state that he caould not of gotten this big just by working out. It had to be working out coupled with another factor. He (and the other ball players) thinks we fans are just idiots. Here is a guy who inquired about every meal he eats and tells us that he didn't know that it was a steroid or "designer drug" he was taking? C'mon. That insults my intelligence.
Having said this, I think he will go down as one of the best ever, (with or without roids) and as long as he continues to play I will tune in. When he gets interviewed, I will also watch until he starts with his known, "all of you are to blame", "I'm black, and Babe Ruth had it easy, etc. etc, etc." Even though it is based in some truth, he exaggerates greatly.
As far as him being a cheater, I suppose it is based on envy from my part. For all of us who bust our butts in the gym for years to get to where Barry got in 6 months is unfair, especially considering that Barry did it administering chemicals deemed illegal (total BS, however) by the government. As after all that and admitting it, he gets no punishment. That is cheating the system in my book as regular people need to spend a fortune defending themselves.
Remember these Chuck Norris Facts
1. When Chuck Norris does a pushup, he isn't lifting himself up, he's pushing the Earth down
2. According to Einstein's theory of relativity, Chuck Norris can actually roundhouse kick you yesterday
3. There are no such things as lesbians, just women who have not yet met Chuck Norris
<< <i> I have absolutely nothing against him for taking steroids. >>
Where do you stand on Pete Rose? What about OJ? Would you have been ok if he had killed his wife and her lover if he had done it while rambling up 2000 yard rushing seasons? After all, killing people isn't in the rulebook of the NFL. Nor is gambling outlawed everywhere in America.
Steroids are illegal (whether you agree or not) in America. Whether or not they were implictly banned by the game is irrelevant-they are outlawed in American society.
You have nothing against him for taking steroids? Are you sure you want to continue to support that stance?
<< <i>What about OJ? Would you have been ok if he had killed his wife and her lover if he had done it while rambling up 2000 yard rushing seasons? >>
It is a good point but a little extreme. There alot of illegal things that athletes do that I could care less about. Did I care that Stoudamire and Sheed were getting high (or a large number of athletes for that matter)? No. Speeding is illegal too but I'm not concerned if athletes I like to watch do it. Now killing your wife - that's a whole different ballgame.
He broke a rule, but didn't cheat.
He can retire after topping the HR record of the best player ever, and then continue a rant about racism. He can dodge media controversy about steriods. It can all be deflected against racism and eras. This would be his best move. Outside of topping Hank Aaron as the HR King, this is his best avenue. He is a disgarace to baseball.
Unfocused, impulsive collector of everything ...
This would maintain some degree of integrity to the game and the records.
The Single Season HR record may be tarnished but atleast the career HR record could stay intact.
Why? Through advice and "back channel" communication from MLB he agreed to suspend play instead of take the heat for his steroid use.
In doing this he will not break Ruth or Aaron's record and this will be his punishment.
I believe that some sports leagues impose this type of silent punishment instead of making the issue public. NASCAR does it when they find an infraction. When you hear of a driver who misses the last practice because of a migraine or some other strange reason it's usually because the car did not pass tech inspection or the driver did something in the last race that needs to be addressed. We can debate on the sports aspect of racing but just used this as an example. Teams also handle their player problems in this manner.
On the other hand - if you take out Bond's above average years and replace those years with his average HR totals would he still have over 600 HRs? That's enough to get him into the HOF even if he had not been juiced.
MLB does not want to take away records or stats from current players. There is no way to do it in a fair manner across the board. The legal aspect would kill the league.
In this way they will transition into a cleaner game - if they can create and enforce a truly strong drug policy. Personally when it comes to illegal drugs I feel they should have one, maybe two chances then they are out. Unfortunately the strength of sports collective bargaining is different than other labor collective bargaining.
My buck two fifty.
Keith
He is way to egotistical to quit and not continue padding his juiced up numbers. He WANTS to break the All-Time HR record.
He WANTS it and he KNOWS he can get it. Taking a few months won't be enough to prevent this.
Everyone might as well get used to the fact that Bonds will retire with the All-Time HR record.
How we all view his all-time stats is going to be the tricky part. How he ranks to the greatest of all-time is going to be the tricky part.
Their is no current easy way to determine this and take into account everything like steroids and growth hormones.
Bonds took steroids (and whatever else), this much is now a FACT. Wether he knew or not (I think he knew), he took them.
With the BALCO trial potentially looming in the near term and possible IRS problems coming also, Bonds has his hands full.
But he brought it ALL ON HIMSELF. Don't fall for his "whoa is me...." Pity Party antics like he tried in his interview recently about everyone (like the media) going after him and causing all his problems.
<< <i>For what it's worth, comparing what Rose did as a manager and what Bonds did/is doing as a player is completely different. I am biased because I am a fan of Pete's, but his gambling didn't hurt the game.
He broke a rule, but didn't cheat. >>
EXACTLY!! And look how SWIFTLY they dealt with Pete Rose. No beating around the bush and dragging feet like with the steroids scandal.
It's funny when you think about it - if you cork your bat (gives the ball some extra pop when you hit it), it is considered cheating, and IF CAUGHT you will be suspended. I think Sosa got about 6 games or so for his corked bat incident.
It is possible Barry Bonds was on steroids or growth hormones since the time when he first started with his personal trainer Greg Anderson (directly linked to the BALCO Labs) back in 1999, which is VERY LIKELY because his home run numbers exploded way beyond his career average starting in that SAME YEAR (1999-2004) as he got older.
This would mean that Bonds possibly cheated for 4-6 seasons of MLB in his career. So it gets me thinking, 6-8 games for ONE corked bat incident, how much for steroid use for 4-6 SEASONS?? For anyone who says it cannot be proven for that period, okay then, how about 1 season (we know he took steroids atleast one season, that is fact proven by the Federal Investigators, and MANY seasons if you go by the log books and supplement schedules for Bonds that they obtained during the Federal raids at BALCO). So what is the punishment?
So far it is NOTHING. Absolutely NOTHING. MLB wants this whole thing to just slowly go away, and they are hoping that we will just forget about it. Normally that might be possible for a normal player, but for a guy on the verge of breaking the All-Time HR record....it is pretty NOTICEABLE and hard to ignore.
I don't think Bonds would be the all-time HR king but for a decade or so.
like the article i read tonite about palmeiro, every player from 1985 to now will be always ????? bc you never know the truth!
i know a lot about roids and some players! My wife went to south hills highschool in cali!! look it up guys she is 32! there is about 5 very well known players that came out of that school, when she went there!
Take a guess!
<< <i>how you guys so sure arod didnt juice?? >>
Not sure, but recently someone said that his accomplishments were are all the more astounding now with the steriods scandal. I can't remember who said it or where I read it but I think it was a current player (maybe Schilling, or at least a columnist I respect the opinion of).
I don't think you can be certain of anyone being clean anymore but I don't think A-Rod has. Griffey is one that nobody thinks has juiced but with all of the injuries and types of injuries I'm surprised no one has tried to accuse him even though his body doesn't appear to be steriod pumped.
I do believe Junior is steriod free that is just an observation, since the steriod witch hunters try to find anything to point a finger at I'm surprised no one has tried this.
<< <i> I view steriod witch hunters and true baseball fans as one in the same ... >>
So did you approve of Wayne Hangon's comments when he said Helton was Juiced? I have no problem with people bashing known abuser's but those who speculate and accuse players who are not juiced are not good for the game, they only turn more people against it.
Unfocused, impulsive collector of everything ...