Home› U.S. Coin Forum

Do you think this 1893-S morgan has been cleaned?

ERER Posts: 7,345 ✭
in U.S. Coin Forum
From DLRC
image

Comments

  • GATGAT Posts: 3,146 ✭
    Better your money then mine on this one.
    USAF vet 1951-59
  • paigowjohnnypaigowjohnny Posts: 4,257 ✭
    Market acceptable to PCGS in any event...
  • DMWJRDMWJR Posts: 6,006 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Not necessarily, but likely.
    Doug
  • wjd283wjd283 Posts: 1,406
    If I saw it on ebay without the lable,yes.
  • ERER Posts: 7,345 ✭
    Even to my non-expert eye, it's pretty harshly cleaned. Hey, not my money either.
  • raysrays Posts: 2,373 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Not much lustre evident from the photo. I like at least a trace of lustre present on AU coins, even AU50.
  • magikbillymagikbilly Posts: 6,780 ✭
    DLRC uses a scanner unless things have changed - so lustre is not going to scream off this coin - but I don't like the look of it either - label or no.

    Billy
  • coinguy1coinguy1 Posts: 13,484 ✭✭✭
    It's hard to tell from the images, but it looks pretty darned nice to me and I don't really understand the criticisms that have been voiced thus far.
  • K6AZK6AZ Posts: 9,295 ✭
    No way to tell with a scan IMO.
  • newportnewport Posts: 256
    I don't think it's possible to tell from the photo
  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Considering that very few AU-50's (even 55's) have much luster these days, it looks decent to me. Before the photo gave away the grade I thought it would be closer to MS60.

    roadrunner
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • marmacmarmac Posts: 1,437 ✭✭✭
    I like it, I have a bought a few things from DLRC and always been very happy, but I have never gotten a feel for their pictures and what the coin will look like in my hand. They have a great return policy.....
  • ERER Posts: 7,345 ✭
    Can't post their enlarged image (too big). You can view it on their website. And I need all the experts to educate me as to why it's not been cleaned. This is a serious request, and not a knock on anybody.
  • morgannut2morgannut2 Posts: 4,293 ✭
    If it was whiter or more shiney I'd say it was possibly cleaned. But nice original dollars of this vintage (when undipped) often have a light yellow original "skin" of oxidation that doesn't image or reflect well. So in a way, it may seem cleaned in part due to the nice old undipped surfaces. You need to see the luster and remaining cartwheel live to say for sure. At this price level you can be sure there are no non circulation hairlines because of the liability PCGS would assume.
    morgannut2
  • coinguy1coinguy1 Posts: 13,484 ✭✭✭


    << <i>At this price level you can be sure there are no non circulation hairlines because of the liability PCGS would assume. >>

    If I understand that statement correctly to mean that the coin cannot have hairlines due to cleaning or PCGS would not have graded it, I must strongly disagree. Even uncirculated/MS coins can be cleaned and still be in PCGS holders.

    My above comment is not meant to be a knock in any way on this particular coin. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, it looks quite nice to me.
  • DUIGUYDUIGUY Posts: 7,252 ✭✭✭
    Yes, lightly dipped. image
    “A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly."



    - Marcus Tullius Cicero, 106-43 BC
  • mgoodm3mgoodm3 Posts: 17,497 ✭✭✭
    link
    coinimaging.com/my photography articles Check out the new macro lens testing section
  • Betta285Betta285 Posts: 733
    From the larger pictures, the coin looks great. IMHO, I wouldn't even call it dipped. Original and a nice bit of circulation under it's belt, but I wouldn't at all suspect cleaning. Just a nice coin. If that hair above the ear weren't so bad an easy 53..IMHO

    jim
  • TheRavenTheRaven Posts: 4,143 ✭✭✭✭
    I am not the best for this but my uneducated eye would say No.
    Collection under construction: VG Barber Quarters & Halves
  • razorface1027razorface1027 Posts: 4,242 ✭✭
    If I saw it on ebay without the lable,yes.

    Good answer!image dittoimage



    Tom
    What is money, in reality, but dirty pieces of paper and metal upon which privilege is stamped?
  • magikbillymagikbilly Posts: 6,780 ✭


    << <i>If I saw it on ebay without the lable,yes.

    Good answer!image dittoimage



    Tom >>



    The label overrides your own opinion? That is not so good, IMHO.

    Billy
  • FatManFatMan Posts: 8,977 ✭
    No way can anyone tell from that image. Scans don't show luster very well and there is no way any of you can see hairlines in that image. I'm betting it will look much nicer in hand. From what I have seen, David Lawrence doesn't sell trashy coins.
  • razorface1027razorface1027 Posts: 4,242 ✭✭
    The label overrides your own opinion? That is not so good, IMHO

    No! My opinion is that the vast majority of AU coins graded or raw have, at one time or another, been cleaned. I guess I was consciously bashing PCGS.image
    What is money, in reality, but dirty pieces of paper and metal upon which privilege is stamped?
  • morgannut2morgannut2 Posts: 4,293 ✭
    Coinguy1 seems to be woried that it is possible the coin have hairlines due to cleaning and still be in a PCGS holder. Frankly my point is that while this is remotely possible, I think due to the bid at >$17,800 in AU-50, it is fairly safe to assume that this coin isn't whizzed or wire brush cleaned leaving dull fields and/or hairlines under the retoned surfaces. I was trying to answer the original poster's "CLEANING QUESTION" in the harshest definition of cleaning. I just don't see PCGS not closely examining such a valuable coin. Is the luster subdued due to dipping? I really don't know from the image. But as I said, original type surfaces can appear as dull in a scanner--there's just no way to tell.
    morgannut2
  • ERER Posts: 7,345 ✭
    Thanks mgoodm3 to post the link to the ENLARGED image. Now if you look at the obverse's field, why does it look like someone used a pencil eraser on it? Again, this is strictly for my educational purpose, and has nothing to do with who sells the coin. I have bought many coins from DLRC and have always been pleased with them. If I were looking for an AU 1893-S, this is one I wouldn't buy, and that's JMHO.
  • coinguy1coinguy1 Posts: 13,484 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Coinguy1 seems to be woried that it is possible the coin have hairlines due to cleaning and still be in a PCGS holder >>

    Actually, I'm not worried about it - I know that can often be the case, though I don't see any eveidence of such here.


    << <i> But as I said, original type surfaces can appear as dull in a scanner--there's just no way to tell. >>

    On that we definitely agree.image
  • Wolf359Wolf359 Posts: 7,656 ✭✭✭
    It's hard to tell from the images, but it looks pretty darned nice to me and I don't really understand the criticisms that have been voiced thus far.

    I'm glad somebody stepped up. I didn't see a problem with it either.
    Multi-channel listings of coins and inventory management

    Free Trial
  • clw54clw54 Posts: 3,815 ✭✭✭
    Seems like it would be worth using a camera when selling five figure coins.
  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 31,082 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Seems like it would be worth using a camera when selling five figure coins. >>



    image
    theknowitalltroll;
  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 31,082 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I wouldn't kick that coin out of bed for eatin crackers!!
    theknowitalltroll;
  • StuartStuart Posts: 9,761 ✭✭✭✭✭
    A key coin like this high grade 1893-S certainly is deserving of a high resolution digital photographic image so that it can be properly evaluated by potential purchasers.

    Stuart

    Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal

    "Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
  • ARCOARCO Posts: 4,396 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Eye appeal trumps a light but "technical" cleaning in my opinion. If a coin looks washed out, and dull from repeated dippings you know it, ditto for strong hairlines covering the surfaces. AU coins tend to be lighter, but in my opinion are rarely uniformly light like this coin if wholly original. 100 Years of time is going to create some patina, and the circulation necesary to wear a coin down from MS to AU50 is considerable, which is caused by greasy fingers, dirty hands etc. If uncleaned that dirt and grease go darker after 100 years.

    Tylers wooden nickel opinion: Possibly very lightly cleaned, but with eye appeal nonetheless. Since I don't believe the 93-S morgan is all that scarce, in F-AU grades, I would look long and hard for one with eye appeal that I liked. If you like it, then that might be the example for you. If you have doubts....wait.

    Tyler
  • jonesyjonesy Posts: 5,031
    image
  • ERER Posts: 7,345 ✭
    Thanks, squirrel.image
  • Steve27Steve27 Posts: 13,274 ✭✭✭
    Doesn't look cleaned to me. The color looks a little off, but I think that's just the pic.
    "It's far easier to fight for principles, than to live up to them." Adlai Stevenson
  • Dennis88Dennis88 Posts: 5,797 ✭✭✭
    Not cleaned
    VOC Numismatics
    Like VOC Numismatics on facebook

Leave a Comment

BoldItalicStrikethroughOrdered listUnordered list
Format
SpoilerCodeQuote
Heading 2Heading 1
Emoji
:):D:(;):/:o:s:p:'(:|B):#:*<3o:)>:)
Url
Image
Align leftAlign centerAlign rightToggle HTML viewToggle full pageToggle lights
Drop image/file
Home • U.S. Coin ForumComment As ...