Was it just me or was the Baltimore Show lousy?

phosphat

I went to the Baltimore show on Saturday at about 2:30p and most of the big dealers were hurriedly packing up. I asked why they were leaving and I was told that the Brinks truck was coming. I understand the need for the services of the likes of Brinks but when they cut into the prime time of a show I wonder why the 'service' provider gets to dictate the show times. How long will the dealers will put up with this?

Additionally, I found that there was a dearth of modern proofs in any grade but especially none in the high grades (69 or 70 DCAM). When I asked about this, I was told that when folks have to travel far to a show the modern proofs aren't worth the trip.

Two things about this bug me:
1. this implies that dealers are only bringing the high dollar stuff and the off-the-street collector is left out in the peanut gallery; (if this is true, then it is very bad for the coin collectors new folks are usually interested in collecting from being able to get a not-so-expensive start.)

2. I am not convinced as I did see a bunch of less 'high dollar' stuff out there - and was just getting wind blown up my ...

Although there seemed to be plenty of gold, and a few nice MS coins there just were very few modern proofs.

Just some thoughts from a disappointed show attendee.

CLif

Cnitas

I was there Sat. afternoon and I too was a little dissappointed about seeing almost nothing but high end coins.
I an a fairly new collector on a tight budget. I was told by one dealer that it was not worth bringing Silver Ikes in less than MS68 because they are low-dollar coins. While I was rushed and could not properly review all the tables (I was with non-coin loving family), I could not find a single Silver Ike in MS67! I saw several in 68 (of course for 3x-4x the price of a 67).

I was also looking for a 1938 d Buff nickel. I saw many, but everyone wanted $65+ for them. I passed, and just bought one off ebay for $48. Go figure.

I did pick up 2 nice coins for my Dansco circulated type set...a 3c silver and a 2c at a very reasonable price, plus I got one of the new Buff nickels!

This was my fist show and I was very surprised at the vast quantity of Morgan dollars every dealer seemed to have. You would think that with quantity like that, the prices would be lower.

Next time I am going alone and I plan to devote the 'proper' time to reviewing the tables

morgannut2

Actually I found a lot of interesting modern material on Friday morning--but not a wide general selection. I think your post is a bit impractical. There are a lot of dealers that just lack the motivation now days to hand carry volumes of lower gross value coins through airport security. I had one in fact offer me a bit more for a heavy package of circulated silver if I would just mail it to him after the show. Taking it all through the airport was just too much aggrevation--and I see his point.

oreville

The internet has also reduced the absolute importance of hauling coins and slabs across the country.

This combined with the increasing cost and time element of hauling coins/slabs with Brinks, airports, etc. is reducing dealer's incentive to bring most of their inventory with them. Just as Morganut2 said.

This is what a number of dealers have told me face to face.

Makes sense to me.

mademan

Hi, I am new to this and was wondering about the plaque at the bottom of your comment( I don't know the proper term for a response to a comment) - Can you share some info as to what the gatekeeper is and the story about theplaque--thanks Mademan

DeepCoin

I also went to the show on Saturday, about noon. Generally I go on Friday and I will never make the mistake of going on Saturday again. I have no problem with dealers leaving early as I know what it is like to be on the road. It is always disappointing to know that you will get about 2/3rds of the dealers material to view. This is just life as it now is, anyone wanting to get the full benefit of all the dealers present will have to get there on Friday.

All things considered, the show was about the same as most Baltimore shows in my mind. I do enjoy going and seeing old friends there.

calgolddiver

Got this -

kieferscoins

Interesting thread.

Cameron Kiefer

calgolddiver

My purchase suppports Oreville's observations - internet bidding - didn't get closer to the show than my laptop.

phosphat

To follow up on some of the thoughful comments that have been made and to ask another question:

DeepCoin - your statement 'I have no problem with dealers leaving early as I know what it is like to be on the road. It is always disappointing to know that you will get about 2/3rds of the dealers material to view." simply ignors that Saturday is day 2 of the 3-day show! This is more than just leaving early in my opinion. The only rational reason is the Brinks truck is setting the hours.

Morgannut2 - your statement "I think your post is a bit impractical. There are a lot of dealers that just lack the motivation now days to hand carry volumes of lower gross value coins through airport security." implies that all the dealers come via airline. I agree that flying is a huge hassle especially with a large inventory of coins, and I would not do it either. However, there were plenty of more local dealers at the show who drove. I asked around - and there seemed to be tons of Morgans and Gold but little else in slabbed coins.

Calgolddiver - really nice!

Now my question: Was the recent Baltimore show much like the others held around the country?

Clif

PS I did pick up a few nice SMS sets and a couple of decent proof sets from '57 & '58 so it wasn't a total bust.

DeepCoin

Phosphat, I think you miss the point of the show from the dealers perspective. Saturday is the 3rd day of the show and Thursday is probably the most important day for them as it is the dealers only day. Also, the auctions are an important part for the dealers and less for the smaller collectors.

I saw more material than I had money to buy. However, I am working on a type set now so there are many things that interest me. I would also agree that Morgans were out in force, high grade certified, mid grade certified and raw. The really good stuff was packing up when I arrived, so I am not sure exactly what I missed. If I had known that the Brinks truck was coming in the early afternoon I would have been at the show when it opened. My advice to collectors is to take a couple of hours off on Friday if you can. That will be my strategy in the future.

keets

so what you guys seem to be saying is that the Bull Market is pricing smaller collectors out of the larger shows, right?? if that's true it makes no sense for the future when things slow.

for myself, i've learned that if i go to a large National or Regional show it's primarily for the social interaction and relaxation as well as an oppurtunity to see some high end stuff i might not otherwise have an oppurtunity to see. i no longer get worked up about finding fillers for my collection. on the other hand, at smaller local shows and smaller shows i may have to travel short distances to i often make the biggest scores and find the nicest coins that are still affordable. also, even though some may scorn the "Bargain tables" at the major shows, it behooves me as to why collectors don't visit them. cha ching!!!!!!!!!!!!!

al h.

RYK

for myself, i've learned that if i go to a large National or Regional show it's primarily for the social interaction and relaxation as well as an oppurtunity to see some high end stuff i might not otherwise have an opportunity to see.



I no longer go to a coin show to shop for coins. In fact, I expect not to buy coins at shows, unless I am buff nickel hunting with my son.

michael

Was it just me or was the Baltimore Show lousy?

it was just you

flykite

I live in Philly, and I learned the hard way that the only day to go is Friday, and EARLY as material goes
quickly. I was there at 10:30, talked with many dealers, and they told me the dealer-to-dealer stuff on
Thursday was intense!

In this rising market, many had material not for sale as they were filling want list. I saw one dealer buy
4 complete Franklin sets WAY above the going rate, and these were junk!

At the Heritage booth, they had people waiting in line consigning coins for future auctions.

morgannut2

Phosphat--I see your point about the lack of a reason for LOCAL dealers not to bring anything but Morgans or Gold. I'm guessing-- but perhaps part of what is going on is dealers view the show as a way to sell their stale inventory. From what I can see, there has been a massive volume of Morgans put on the market, prices have gone up anyway, and dealers a trying to get rid off their excess inventory in the series. In gold, I think there is just a lot of action and price swings with the bullion changes, resulting in a desire to quickly flip gold. The certified miner coinage you want seems more stable, with a steady list of regular customers for dealers--hence no rush to "push" the coins that are easy to sell to their old-time customers at home.

dpoole

Shows have very much changed complexion, in my experience. This is my first "boom" close-up, but it does seem to me that collector-from-dealer buying on the bourse (the ostensive premise of a show, after all) has dropped a great deal in priority.

Activity at the shows now appears to be early, and dealer-to-dealer as dealers try to expand quality inventory and fulfill want lists. Buyers head off to auctions, or stay home and do everything on line.

It's still fun to go to shows to see vast numbers of coins and to schmooze. But one does measure the shift in emphases by the earlier-and-earlier disappearance of dealers from the bourse after the dealer-to-dealer trading is done. For the guys who stay, it's almost as though they are doing the hobby a favor by sticking around for the great unwashed.

flyingcougar13

In this market, shows are for dealers not collectors. Serious collectors (not investors) need to relax and wait for the shift.

SellStock

I learned a LOOOOOOOONG time ago that if you want anything good, you need to be there on Friday. Period.

With that said, I was at the Baltimore show from 10am - 2pm on Friday and I think the show was VERY active. Some participation dropped as the Bowers and Merena auction started at 1pm. WHY they do this during the show is beyond me. It's just not smart as it cannibalizes dealers trying to sell coins. My recommendation: Keep ALL of the auctions to the evenings or late afternoon.

As usual, some dealers are asking way too much for some nice coins (50% above trends). I went back to one dealer 3 hours later and showed a similar coin that another guy tending the booth showed me earlier (same guy wasn't there, must have been on lunch break). I was curious what they would offer. He made some comment about while the market was "hot" for early gold, he could only offer me 75% of trends for the exact same PCGS graded coin his partner had showed me earlier -- and mine was nicer!! Why? "Because the market is overheated," he said. When I asked how he could market HIS coin 50% above trends, he got very defensive and snotty. I just left, shaking my head.

It's a crying shame that there are more than a few dealers that try to fleece the public. Fortunately, I stick with 1/2 dozen or so of the dealers I've developed relationships with over the years. Been in this business over 40 years and some things never change. Caveat Emptor!

EagleEye

If you are looking for lower end coins, chances are you'd find it on Saturday and Sunday. The local dealers are the only ones who would bring that kind of bulk and they are usually the ones who stay through to the end. If you want the better grade coins you'll have to take off work and go on Friday, and if you are really serious, get a Super Bourse badge and go on Thursday.

As for dealers asking too much, it depends on your perspective. I had a 1909-S Indian MS-64RB PCGS, which I bought at the show for $1300 (bid = $950). Although it was put out of view, I had a few requests, so I pulled it out twice and offered it for $1,500. I first guy snickered at my asking price and left and not ten minutes later another guy inquired about it and was overjoyed for finding such a beautiful coin.

morgannut2

A year later now, the Brinks truck arrived at 12:30 Saturday---Most dealers had to leave as they were there since Sunday for the ANR Auction.

tcmitssr

I think it's essential to get to Baltimore on Friday if you want to find most anything PQ in any grade/price range. By Saturday afternoon, the dealers are tired and racing to pack for flights home. It's not fair but it is reality. If you want the top stuff you can afford, you almost need to make sure you can be there on Friday.

In classic commems, I saw great stuff in PCGS MS 63 through MS 67 on Friday.

cladking

Shoot. Missed this thread.

There are a couple things I can add though. Shows vary a great deal with how good they
are for moderns. Sometimes there will be almost nothing at the largest shows and a local
show can blow them away. Regional shows tend to be best especially for the raw stuff
since dealers don't mind hauling a lot of stock across town but won't haul it cross country
or get on an airplane with it.

Slabbed stuff would be in sight but for raw you often have to ask. Dealers don't want to
take up a lot of space on their tables so it will be out of sight or behind the counter. Some-
times this can be a good way to make a contact since they will have it "back at the shop".

There's more and more slabbed stuff available and more and more dealers willing to stock
some so keep your eyes open. Everyones right that you have to get there early. You can
still see most of the stuff that traded dealer to dealer before the show opens but the best
stuff disappears in the first couple of hours on the first day.

The best shows to look for are regional shows during poor market conditions and terrible
weather. If there's something to keep most people home it's best. The dealers will still show
up but they'll be at your mercy.