Vietnam Gold and Silver coins wanted/UPDATE 3/15/06 W/PICS

mrearlygold

If anyone has or can point me in the direction of someone who has information and authentic gold and silver coins from Vietnam, I'd be much obliged.

This is a fairly new endeavor for me and for my own personal collection.

Thanks in advance!

Tom

akdrv

http://art-hanoi.com/collection/

mrearlygold

Thank you for the info. The real thing is difficult to come by. I lived full time in Saigon and then Vungtau between late 2000 and late 2002 and actually placed ads in the english language Vietnam News ( yes they allowed the ad for nearly 6 months, once a week!) and only saw one authentic gold coin from the 1830's which was not for sale and an abundance of what appeared to be fakes. But I did meet someone who supposedly knows of a real collection and I remain in touch with him. Who knows what the future may hold!

My wife has told me stories and legends about what happened to some of the early stuff which is facinating to me. I have a collection of Vietnamese paper, but have been trying albeit unsuccessfully at getting connected with a specialist in early coinage ( at least early 1800's, not the cash type). I just started asking for help from Coin Galleries.

Rgrds
Tom

Stork

This is probably not what you're after...but it is gold and from Viet Nam...Linkage
For what it's worth anyway. Sounds like an interesting collection!

Cathy

mrearlygold

Thanks Cathy, you are right, that's not what I'm looking for. It's really tough material to connect with. But thank you for trying to help!

Rgrds
Tom

cosmicdebris

Give Panda America a shot.

mrearlygold

Thanks Bill but they only have new stuff.

Hey, like your medals!

Tom

sumnom

Mr. EG, tell us how your search develops. You have a tough row to hoe.

mrearlygold

Will do Mr sumnom
and I sure do know it!

Tom

mrearlygold

Been awhile, howz about a

gxseries

Wow you sure developed a very difficult taste. Those are ridiciously hard to find, and so far I have only come through ONLY one such gold "coin", which was in an Asian Museum... lemme see if google can help...

What is the range of years that you are looking for? Pre-Indochina era? Am I going to assume large Vietnamese silver "bars"?

sumnom

Any progress?

mrearlygold

In the early 1800's and I know this is a virtually impossible area. Help!


Tom

harasha

Back in November of 2002, Stack's/Coin Galleries had several nice pieces. I snagged one; just hope it was genuine!

gxseries

You mean something like this?

Vietnam 1841-47

It's going for at least 4 figures, not that cheap...

sumnom

Beautiful! Do you know what the legend says?

mrearlygold

<< <i>You mean something like this?

Vietnam 1841-47

It's going for at least 4 figures, not that cheap... >>








Cool, how about more info?

gxseries

What other infomation are you looking for?

That's the only old Vietnanese coin that I can find with the dealers here.

I am honestly not too sure of the inscription, but to the best of my knowledge of my little chinese that I know of,

On the left: "long live and be safe"
On the right side of the image, it seems to be an inscription of some philisophy story.

Pm me if I missed anything important.

sumnom

I will take a shot at it in the next day or two, if someone else doesn't get to it first.

mrearlygold

I'll pass. Thanks anyway.

Someone else want to take a shot?

sumnom

Well, this was a lot harder than I expected but I will share with you the limited fruits of my labors.

The text in the right hand image is a poem consisting of four five-character lines (I think...). I am not sure what the first two characters mean so I guesstimated my way through it.

Here is a preliminary attempt:



A thousand years of continuous [moral] transformation,

Refined gold transmitted to ten thousand generations.

There is virtue in recognizing merit and illuminating [it],

Only the worthy are to be treasured.



One needs a poet to translate poetry and I am no poet!


The first character (we are reading top to bottom, right to left) is an ornamental jade ring. Some dictionaries indicate only that it is a ring while others also mention that it is a ring with a slot cut out of it such that it is not continuous (used for pulling back and releasing a bowstring). The first meaning denotes continuity (a circle) while the second denotes discontinuity. I am choosing the first meaning.

The second character means "flowing, moving." I therefore think the first two characters together mean something along the lines of "endless, continual, repeated." This is just a WAG though. Someone with better Chinese than mine needs to take a look at this.

The fifth character means "change, transformation" and is often taken to mean a moral transforation through study and self-cultivation.

The sixth character, and the beginning of the second line, is to clean by moving about in water, especially when the water is mixed with something abrasive like sand. This would be like polishing in a rock tumbler. The seventh character means "pure gold" or "high quality gold." Here we have an image of cleaning gold of a high purity, removing all stains. I chose the word "refined" but "polished" might be better.

The first two lines then describe the product of the sages' thousand years of study and reflection. Their refined wisdom, their pure polished gold, is transmitted to ten thousand generations. Ten thousand generations essentially means "forever."

The second two lines are the bits of wisdom passed down by the sages over endless generations. The first is that it is virtuous to recognize meritorious deeds and make them known throughout the world (to illuminate them). The second is that worthiness/wisdom is the only thing to truly be treasured.



The left image contains two lines. The first is simply the name of the currency, Thieu Tri Thong Bao, or "Currency of the Thieutri Reign," which I think would be 1841 to 1847.

The second line reads, "Ten thousand generations eternally rely." I think this refers to the poem. Ten thousand generations eternally rely upon the wisdom of the sages achieved through a thousand years of continuous self-cultivation.




I am sorry I could not do any better than this. As I said, someone with better Chinese needs to take a look at this. I am sure I have made some errors here. I suspect this is a famous passage but I do not have a concordance nearby to check. It could be from the classics, it could be from a poet of reknown, I do not know.

brendanlam

here is the Link










if you can find any of this coin let me know.
have everyone see those coin before ?

mrearlygold

Cam on! But those are not offerings. Just information.


Tom

brendanlam

well, if you really like those coins that I had post. I guess you have to go back vietnam and find it. but it's no easy.
In 1996 vietnam had release a gold coin "300 yrs anniversary of saigon", and I'm still trying to find it. but It's leave no trace, if you can find one let's me know. vietnam collectors different then here. when they have something valuable, keep it for themself, even if you pay for a high prices.

but I guese those coins I posted. it's really rare, and because of gold, most of it have been melt it. same as silver.

secondrepublic

I'm intrigued enough by these posts to ask a few questions:

1. Who minted these coins?

2. Is is easier or harder to get these coins now that Vietnam has begun to develop economically and "open up" socially?

3. What is the mintage of these various coins, and why are they so rare?

mrearlygold

<< <i>I'm intrigued enough by these posts to ask a few questions:

1. Who minted these coins?

2. Is is easier or harder to get these coins now that Vietnam has begun to develop economically and "open up" socially?

3. What is the mintage of these various coins, and why are they so rare? >>







Which coins are you specifically referring to?

No

Invasion forces from the Chinese to French to Americans who either ripped the coins off from the country or forced people to bury the coins so they can't be found.

Lots of reasons.

I ran advertisements for over 6 months in Vietnam News while living in Saigon which didn't net me much at all.

brendanlam

well, because those coins that you interest in are gold and silver which is really valuable and rare. what I have understand is those coin only use to honor officer in that period, and only rich person can have or use it. like mrearlygold said vietnam have been through long war time, difficulty economy in vientnam. and most those gold/silver coin are trade it for food, and sell to jewerly store to melt it.
to vietnam collectors, not all of them can effort one piece of gold coin in their collection. that's all of the reason why those gold/silver can't survive. but if you go back 20-30yrs back, I guess you can find some because that's what my uncle did.( he has some of it)

I guess today you still can find it, but you have to go back in vietnam and find someone that really understand about a coin and known collectors, they can direct you to find it. but the chance that you can have it very slim, and really expense.

secondrepublic

<< <i>

<< <i>
1. Who minted these coins?

Which coins are you specifically referring to?
>>



I was referring to the four in the pictures posted by BrendamLam. But more generally, I was asking about what decades/centuries Vietnam minted its own coins.

mrearlygold

I guess today you still can find it, but you have to go back in vietnam and find someone that really understand about a coin and known collectors, they can direct you to find it. but the chance that you can have it very slim, and really expense. >>








Not really. I ran ads in the Vietnam News for 6 months while living there full time between late 2000 and 2003. I saw several "collections" of fake nonsense, and was shown a couple pieces of gold that were not offered for sale but rather as a sign of friendship. Had the owners of those coins been caught with them he would have been jailed and the coins seized. If I was there when it was found out I would have been deported. So it was definitely a leap of faith on the part of the owner as well as the people who connected me.

It's a most interesting place and people. The people have a lot in common with Polish people. At least the best of my knowledge of Poland tells me that nobody ever wanted to leave Poland alone. It it wasn't the Germans it was the Russians or the Swedes or Tatars invading and the Poles never gave up despite the odds and despite the despicable unbelievable horrors inflicted on them. In the end it was Poland who started the domino effect of communism's fall in eastern europe. Certainly socialism is alive and well thruout the world but the visible "actions" against it were obvious in Poland just as the resistance to the Nazi's 50 years before that while almost every other country and people in europe bowed before the German war machine.

It's very similar in Vietnam whereas the people who were dominated by the Chinese finally rose up under the direction of the Trung sisters and threw the shackles of Chinese bondage off them. The of course the French had their thumb on Vietnam for 100 years until they were militarily humiliated and defeated, only to be replaced unfortunately by us...........( don't get me started) and they are of course still suffering the effects of chemical poisoning in the water table bringing the country horrifically defected babies and other health problems while the Vietnamese I think just try to keep on keeping on while smiling from ear to ear and it would not surprise me in the least if we see a big change there in the future, as the average Vietnamese is vehemently against socialism.

Sorry for the o/t posting although Numismatics does take into account the history of places, people, things etc right? The coins are tough tough tough man. Real ones are for sure. Please offer me any you find including IN country as I'll be back in Saigon in february.

Tom

Stork

<< <i>Sorry for the o/t posting although Numismatics does take into account the history of places, people, things etc right >>



I don't think of this as OT, not on this board anyway. The history of the coins is compelling, and a huge part of what makes the darkside interesting. At least to me.

I have very much enjoyed this thread.


Cathy

secondrepublic

Thanks for the history, Tom. Very interesting and certainly some important parallels to Poland. My wife and I were in Vietnam in Sept. 2001 for two weeks. During the trip, shortly after we arrived, 9-11 happened, and Vietnamese people could not have been any nicer, more supportive, and friendlier, both before and after. One of the most surprising things was the incredible friendliness of the people toward Americans - much friendlier than the people in other Asian countries we visited. And their positive attitude towards life, even though the country is still poor and run by communist dictators, was really impressive. I think they will do well there in the long run, they have all the elements to build a very successful society.

mrearlygold

<< <i>Thanks for the history, Tom. Very interesting and certainly some important parallels to Poland. My wife and I were in Vietnam in Sept. 2001 for two weeks. During the trip, shortly after we arrived, 9-11 happened, and Vietnamese people could not have been any nicer, more supportive, and friendlier, both before and after. One of the most surprising things was the incredible friendliness of the people toward Americans - much friendlier than the people in other Asian countries we visited. And their positive attitude towards life, even though the country is still poor and run by communist dictators, was really impressive. I think they will do well there in the long run, they have all the elements to build a very successful society. >>







There's more chutzpah in Vietnam than anywhere in Asia. But for the most part, the average Vietnamese just wants to be left alone, farming, raising a family.........

I was living in Tan Binh District before and after 9/11. When it happend I called the US consulate who told me to stay indoors, that they didn't know to what extent these attacks would be on a world level. Never being one to listen ( ) I was out on my motorcyle with a Flag T-shirt on the next day figuring if we're gonna get it on, then let's get it on right away.

The only thing to "get on" was the bowing and gratitude I showed to strangers who came to my place with baskets of fruit and other foods, with heads bowed, expressing their sorrow.

Contrast that to the demonstrations AGAINST the US government ( demonstrating is generally not allowed there) in protest to the invasion of Iraq.

My sister in law is trying to find "old coins" for me now that I'm back in the States. Sent me a couple dozen pieces of string money ( cash pieces) but their contemporary stuff......but she's looking and one of these days I bet she scores although I'm sure I'll have to be on an airplane for that one and that won't be so bad

Stork

Picture of

New Vietnam 1848-83 Gold Tien Schroeder-353B PCGS MS62 Very rare denomination in gold, only lists up to extremely fine in Krause. An opportunity not to be missed. $5,500

from NEN

mrearlygold

Neat coin, I don't agree with the price at all.

mrearlygold

brendanlam

well I guess that price is reasonable. because it's not easy to find old coin anymore, and gold is extremely rare.

1jester

<< <i>well I guess that price is reasonable. because it's not easy to find old coin anymore, and gold is extremely rare. >>



I agree; the price is extremely reasonable. It's a no-brainer, in fact.

mrearlygold

Wow, a no brainer? Based on what?

sumnom

Does anyone know if my attempted translation was on the mark?

mrearlygold

sumnom, I thought you quit this gig?

sumnom

I just quit the Open Forum.

mrearlygold

<< <i>I just quit the Open Forum. >>




Smart.

brendanlam

here is new website that has couple of vietnam coinLink

mrearlygold

Thanks Brendan

mrearlygold

Vietcoins

There is a Tu Duc gold coin for auction at:

http://www.ponterio.com/137/137-075.html

mrearlygold

Annam Coin[/L]

sumnom

This link?

sumnom

mrearlygold

Shhhhhhh!

sumnom