PCGS Cross-over: Why not Consolidate? Please be careful with your answer !!!!!! PCGS is watching

TheRock

Over the past 3-4 weeks I have asked questions about crossing over various NGC to PCGS coins. This has become a very serious and confidential subject and have told everyone that has sent a PM that I would post this thread. Almost 20 people have sent me PM's about this subject in confidence and another 20 in the threads that I have posted.

Here is the reality, it takes (5) NGC coins or whom ever (PGS, IGC, etc.) to be able to submit a cross-over grade with out cracking open the coin. Well after talking to a ton of you, that takes a while to accumulate (5) coins. Most people that have responded think this SUCKS. I agree. So I have an idea that came out in a thread a couple of days ago. I responeded with a comment of, "Why not consolidate" your submissions to a PCGS member to get over the (5) coin minimum. I have received over 50 responces in the last 48 hours as "Lets Do It", "Great Idea", "I'm in" and such. However, I have also received various PM's that state "Be Careful, This goes against PCGS policy". Well, I have never been one to follow a lot of rules, especially since this rule is not stated by PCGS and it only benifts all of us.

Here is my idea !!!!!!!
Why not send all your coins to a trusted member of this PCGS forum and have that member submit all the coins. The cost is minimal if you think about it. Normal cost is the shipping to PCGS + the coin grade.

OK, if you add the shipping of your coins to a member (To them and Back + normal costs), what you add to the total shipping cost of $5.00, who cares if the coins you are grading is either a coin you "Have to have" or "You'r going to sell the coin for 2-3 times what you paid for it". The cost is minimal. Maybe MadMarty or Russ (Just an example) of someone that can be trusted. MAybe we give the person a coin or two to do this? Maybe a $$$$$ amount.

The member that you send them to would have to be a trusted member, maybe voted on or something, but damb, the decision to do this is plain and simple. PCGS is making enough money on us, why not take advantage of a golden oppertunity?

Please be careful with your feedback, PCGS is watching. Please advise.

K6AZ

I hate to break the news to you, but many of us have been combining submissions for some time. The drawback for someone new is that some people won't trust you to submit high value coins. But if you have one or two you want to have graded, just keep on eye on some posters and PM them. It shouldn't take much to figure out who submits coins frequently.

bgrice

Rock,

I agree with the theory whether it is kosher or not and am one of the people who PM'd you. I'm at the crossroads of starting a new series and really don't want to get too far into it if I don't have the eye that I hope I do. Although it may not be a lot of money to some the $2-1/2 gold Indians in MS-61 are going to cost me $200+ each(some more) in NGC holders and I don't want to take the dive for 5 of them and get too far into this. The NGC coins don't carry the premium that PCGS does, so I'm trying to pick the best and get them into PCGS holders. I have 2 of the easier ones so far(1915 & 1926) and if I could get those sent in to PCGS at the regular service I'd crack them out in a second to see what they grade(or don't). But, if I have to wait for 5 coins then I am going to go the route of crossover to make sure I don't end up with any bagged coins that I cannot sell off. I really don't think I have learned anything going the crossover route as it's just too easy for PCGS to agree and cross them over or just send it back in the NGC holder. It's not as if I am buying raw coins that some so-called expert has not looked at, so I'd like to see what those 2 do in front of another grading service. If they are bagged or graded lower, so be it.

TheRock

I thought it had to be going on somehow, there was just no way that it could not be. It was just amazing to see the PM's that I got over the past 48 hours. As soon as I figure out who there are, I will PM the guys that sent me the email to let them know also. I totaly agree that your must be "TRUSTED" to do this. Maybe over time. Thanks for the feedback and responding to such a delicate issue.

coinbuf

Yep this has been done before, I have an order in to ANACS that includes another members coin right now.

Chris

CarlWohlforth

Once PCGS said you need 5 coins for a regular (or economy) submission people were asking their buds if they could combine orders. That is a no brainer. It doesn't matter if PCGS is watching because they don't know where common coins are coming from. PCGS is turning business away with this policy (5 coin minimum). That is fine if they can't hire enough staff to handle the business. If I were a share holder I would write the board of directors asking why PCGS was turing down business...

CarlWohlforth

bgrice: Sorry, but it costs $$$ to attempt a cross. If you factor in risk and shipping costs it is cheaper to start out buying PCGS. Or you can be happy with the coin in a NGC holder. If you were an expert grader, or even a good 2 1/2 Indian grader you should be happy with a good coin in any holder....

Bochiman

1) Where is that a stated PCGS policy (not combining???)
2) People that submit a lot... Marty, Marty, Marty, Marty, and Russ.

TheRock

Thanks for the replay BGRICE. It's always hard to discuss a subject as touchy as this. I agree 100% with your responce. If you look at a coin "NOT THE HOLDER" and then say "DAM, THAT IS A GOOD COIN" but want it graded by the best "PCGS" for either personal satisfaction or to sell it. You have to get it graded by PCGS. I hope we find some people to agree.

nwcs

I've seen lots of people consolidate orders over the years. I don't see why PCGS would have a problem, they get paid the same either way.

TheRock

Just to clarify on the policy. I have NOT seen this in writing from PCGS. Only have been PM'ed over 20+ times that this is frowned upon by PCGS. I have no idea why, but this is what is coming from the members of this forum. Some of the PM's are from very serious members.

ElectricEye

<< <i>I hate to break the news to you, but many of us have been combining submissions for some time. >>

Yes, and I doubt PCGS could care less who, what, when, just as long as the payment shows up with the correct paperwork.



<< <i>Only have been PM'ed over 20+ times that this is frowned upon by PCGS. >>

There's 20+ people who know something the masses here have no clue about.

TheRock

CarlWohlforth, I would agree 100%. My only concern from posting this thread was to get kicked of the forum from PCGS according to the PM's that I received. That would SUCK! I have learned so much in the last 30 days, it's unbelievable. Thanks for your help.

nwcs

It would take much more than this.

littlejohn

there more persons sending in coins than just Marty, and Russ.
littlejohn

TheRock

Thanks NWCS for the info. I would hate to get AXED!!!! for asking the question.

TheRock

LittleJohn, I would agree by the replys to this thread. I did not mean to leave anyone out, especially the "GOD" like collectors. I only mentioned them because I have been dealing with them. Please take NO offense to me not mentioning others. I appoligize.

MadMarty

<< <i>there more persons sending in coins than just Marty, and Russ.
littlejohn >>



Don't forget Relayer!!!

K6AZ

<< <i>Thanks NWCS for the info. I would hate to get AXED!!!! for asking the question. >>



Nobody is going to "axe" you. And I would like some of these 20 people who PM'ed you to come out and say that here, and back up their comments with proof.

TheRock

None yet. I really needed to see what came out of this thread. I was as concerned about this subject as I stated. Being new to this forum, I just did not know. I guess asking the question and seeing the replys, has brought on some very sensitive information. Sorry about that. I look to this forum to give me some very straight answers, good or bad. Just looking for some honest help.

K6AZ

Let me try this one more time.

I've been here going on four years, I've never seen any official statement that combining submissions was frowned on. Sound to me some people who have PM'ed you have given you a lot of false information. There is nothing "sensitive" about going in on a submission with a buddy.

badger

I work in manufacturing and take a little different view on the minimum requirement. PCGS is a manufacturer - of slabs - using our coins and some plastic as raw materials. In any manufacturing operation, volume is the key driver. For the total business, annual volume drives profitability. For each lot, order size drives profitability. I'm surprised the lot size is as small as five.

For the main theme of the thread, I don't see anything wrong in batching coins into higher lots.

bgrice

<< <i>bgrice: Sorry, but it costs $$$ to attempt a cross. If you factor in risk and shipping costs it is cheaper to start out buying PCGS. Or you can be happy with the coin in a NGC holder. If you were an expert grader, or even a good 2 1/2 Indian grader you should be happy with a good coin in any holder.... >>



Carl,

Of course it cost $$$($30 to be exact/coin) to attempt crossovers. I crossed 7(1 rejected) of my walkers from NGC to PCGS holders. I've attempted to somewhat cherrypick these first 2 indians and figured in any excess costs to try to go to PCGS holders when I bought them. Plans are to just put together a nice set and at the same time have them in the best economical means should I ever decide to sell. There are no plans for that though.

nwcs

I was thinking, when you have a dealer submit for you and they combine it with their orders, isn't that the same thing? I agree, the people who have said it is frowned upon should state why they believe that. I've been here for nearly 3 years and I've seen countless "grade results" threads where people mentioned that they combined orders.

TheRock

K6AZ, maybe so. I'm only relaying information that I have received. I thought this might me Bogus, but I had to ask the question. I see no reason that this would be frowned upon by PCGS, but you never know. I would love to submit my coins with a buddy. Helps me out to the max. I just had to ask the question. I wan't to follow the ethical guildlines, regardless if they are posted or not.

TheRock

NWCS, I would agree 100%. It does seem like the same thing. Dealers vs. buyers?

littlejohn

i was not upset or anything like that.
i just know a lot more are sending in coins .
i got two gold coins up for sell now on ebay ,just to cover the cost of a order of 60 proof. , i have ready to go now. there not going to pcgs but to anacs.
as soon as i get the money for it.most likely next week.
littlejohn

TheRock

No problem, just did not want to make any enemies.

littlejohn

none made here.

TheRock

Thanks buddy. Like to keep my slate clean

CarlWohlforth

Hey, Rock, don't worry, you won't be axed for your reasonable question.

bgrice: I believe you get the $30/per coin crossover price if you submit 5 coins. Less than that you are talking $50 + costs of Registered mail shipping. This would not matter if you have a MS 66 quarter Eagle you are trying to cross. But if you are talking $200 coins I would say that a $50 fee to try a cross is too much. If you are a super expert grader and think your AU 58 coin will go PCGS MS 64 that is one thing, but I don't think that is what you are saying...

Personally if I wanted an AU 58 or MS 62 $2 1/2 Indian in a PCGS holder I would just buy one in a PCGS holder. If I were an expert grader of gold Indians (I'm not) I would buy one in a lessor holder or raw.

TheRock

Thanks Carl. Appriciate the honest answer.