Poll: Do you think I'll get negative feedback on this?
relayer
Posts: 10,570 ✭
I listed a 1960 set and showed a large scan (600x800) of both the obverse and reverse of the set along with this picture of the cent
After paying with PayPal, he received it Feb 17th.
Yesterday I get an email from him:
I received the 1960 small date proof set and was surprized by the amount of oxidation on the penny's edge. This is not visible on the pictures provided nor was it listed in your description of the item. I would prefer to discuss with you and resolve before I leave feedback. Would you prefer that I call or simply discuss via email?
So I replied
Well, Kristopher, it’s like this.
I use money in exchange for goods and services. I tried to buy a house, a car and even just a dinner using eBay feedback, but no one will accept it in trade so it’s pretty useless to me.
Within the scope of the eBay User Agreement, our Contract was formed based on my offer in eBay auction number xxxxxxxxx and your acceptance by being the highest bidder at the close.
If you view the auction you will see the link “Click here for complete terms, my feedback and other auctions" which takes you to my eBay “About Me” page.
Please review the return policy. As the set was delivered to you on Feb 17th you have slept on your rights as outlined in my return policy.
Now, 12 days later you want to open up some negotiations to modify our contract in which I would give you some monetary settlement in exchange for you not posting negative feedback on the public eBay system.
Under those conditions I am afraid there is nothing I can do for you.
Enjoy your time eBay!
Regards,
Doug
After paying with PayPal, he received it Feb 17th.
Yesterday I get an email from him:
I received the 1960 small date proof set and was surprized by the amount of oxidation on the penny's edge. This is not visible on the pictures provided nor was it listed in your description of the item. I would prefer to discuss with you and resolve before I leave feedback. Would you prefer that I call or simply discuss via email?
So I replied
Well, Kristopher, it’s like this.
I use money in exchange for goods and services. I tried to buy a house, a car and even just a dinner using eBay feedback, but no one will accept it in trade so it’s pretty useless to me.
Within the scope of the eBay User Agreement, our Contract was formed based on my offer in eBay auction number xxxxxxxxx and your acceptance by being the highest bidder at the close.
If you view the auction you will see the link “Click here for complete terms, my feedback and other auctions" which takes you to my eBay “About Me” page.
Please review the return policy. As the set was delivered to you on Feb 17th you have slept on your rights as outlined in my return policy.
Now, 12 days later you want to open up some negotiations to modify our contract in which I would give you some monetary settlement in exchange for you not posting negative feedback on the public eBay system.
Under those conditions I am afraid there is nothing I can do for you.
Enjoy your time eBay!
Regards,
Doug
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Comments
Russ, NCNE
U.S. Nickels Complete Set with Major Varieties, Circulation Strikes
U.S. Dimes Complete Set with Major Varieties, Circulation Strikes
<< <i> That is the most well written, "pound sand, you moron", I've ever read!
Russ, NCNE >>
I'll second that ! Well done !
You're sort of missing the point here. It's not the desire to return the set that's the issue, it's the feedback threat.
Russ, NCNE
There is only one way to read this:
<< <i>I would prefer to discuss with you and resolve before I leave feedback. >>
You're far too nice, and trusting of human nature.
Russ, NCNE
Can't tell you how strongly I feel about sellers who do not describe the coins ACCURATELY or image them well enough for me to make my own determination as to their condition and THEN refuse to refund for WHATEVER reason.
Just MHO
Edited to add: To answer your question, NO, if you do the right thing, probably if you don't.
<< <i>Bill,
You're sort of missing the point here. It's not the desire to return the set that's the issue, it's the feedback threat.
Russ, NCNE >>
Maybe the buyer is getting ready to use feedback extortion, and if he is, shame on him. The problem is that the cent in the set had a problem, and the cent is worth more than half the value of the set. The seller should have mentioned the problem. If he had, he would be perfectly within his rights to send the "go pound salt" message. Since he did not do that, he's not totally off the hook.
Yes the buyer did wait too long, but the seller did not totally cover his butt when he failed to note a major problem in his description.
<< <i>You're far too nice, and trusting of human nature. >>
Perhaps, but perhaps not. But, why not politely force the buyer to come out with a specific/overt feedback extortion threat, rather than escalate hostilities? That way, if negative feedback is left, Relayer will have proof of what transpired.
Edited to Add: This is precisely why I do not leave feedback first for unknown buyers. He already got his postive for the auction, so he makes a veiled threat to leave bad feedback if he doesn't get a partial refund. This is nothing short of extortion.
<< I would prefer to discuss with you and resolve before I leave feedback. >>
Threat? I think he would have said NEG feedback if a threat. He would like to resolve before leaving feedback. Wouldn't you?
If I buy a coin with paypal and the seller won't leave feedback until I do, is that a threat?
Personally I would've tried to make the buyer happy first. When I'm selling on eBay I try to look at things through the sellers eyes before
reacting to e-mails. I'm certain that message had feedback extortion motives but maybe the bigger motive was just to work it out. The
buyer even offered to call which shows he was willing to be more personal about it. A lot of true intentions get lost in e-mails, memos, etc,
and a phone call may have brought a happy ending.
But that's just me.
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
<< <i>I received the 1960 small date proof set and was surprized by the amount of oxidation on the penny's edge. This is not visible on the pictures provided nor was it listed in your description of the item. I would prefer to discuss with you and resolve before I leave feedback. Would you prefer that I call or simply discuss via email? >>
I don't see anywhere where the buyer has asked for any monitary refund ? I don't see anywhere where the buyer made a real threat of any kind ? He simply wants to open a dialog to address an issue that was not disclosed in the original auction. The deal isn't done until both partys are happy, in my opinion. Granted he waited a little longer than normal before he made contact, but whats to say he wasn't available to address the issue until now ? I went on a short vacation and wasn't able to immediately open packages that arrived while i was gone. If there would have been problems i would just now be making contact with a seller to discuss it. Close to 8 days. Am i chit outta luck just because a few days have passed? Did the item corrode in between when it was shipped and when contact was made ? I doubt it.
If the auction pics and description did not disclose the point of the issue then i would think a full refund and return would be in order.
Apropos of the coin posse/aka caca: "The longer he spoke of his honor, the tighter I held to my purse."
I would not leave you negative feedback mostly because I really do not believe in it unless one gets totally burned. I've never left any negative feedback, and I would have just taken the auction as a learning experience. I can see the oxidation in the photos.
With all that said, you come across (in your email), as quite a pr1ck and a bit of a smart a$$.
<< <i> However, in this case it was a veiled threat >>
Eric, it PROBABLY was a veiled threat. But, it's also POSSIBLE that the words are being interpreted in a negative light, because the buyer could/should have phrased things differently/better.
Either way, I see no reason not to give the benefit of the doubt unless or until the threat becomes overt.
A polite/less bellicose reply from Relayer probably wouldn't have felt as good, but it might have accomplished more.
Does his feedback give any indication he does this on a regular basis?
I've gotten to the point where I don't write any text in auctions anymore. I do have some canned phrases in a drop down box I use, and for proof sets it just says "The set pictured is the one you will receive"
Yes I left him feedback after he paid as I do for everyone, so I am defenseless against a negative.
I rarely get returns and I don't care. I just give them their money back (block them) and relist it. I've also paid for a few "lost" coins.
The return policy says to notify me within 3 days and return it within 7. This guy is new and if he had just said he wanted to return it I wouldn't have had a problem even it was 12 days.
But the attempt to use feedback as a bargining chip doesn't sit well with me.
My two negatives were from a couple of proof sets I sold to a PowerSeller some months ago. I get an email saying both the cases are cracked and whast was I going to do about it, and then another one a couple hours later saying he wouldn't be ignored. So I replied he could return them for a full refund (SH both ways). He replies that he wants me to send him two new cases or I would be very unhappy soon (I had 100% at the time). So I told him to pound sand in not so nice of terms. (I did report him for feedback extortion, but eBay didn't do anything).
So with this guy telling me he has an issue to resolve before I leave feedback pretty much shut down any interest I had in being nice to him.
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So, I would want to resolve the matter before leaving feedback.
Interesting, those who sell and are so hyped on saying "never leave feedback for a buyer until everything is done or they leave it first" are jumping on "I would like to resolve things before leaving feedback".
So, relayer, if I were that buyer, and I had "mis"worded things as maybe they were from your buyer, and I got that smart@$$ reply from you, I, personally, would eat the price of the set and neg your butt. Or, I would eat the set, create another ID, build it a little, buy from you again, and neg your butt.
The person asked about calling to resolve it...I believe very few PITAs would want to communicate via non-email like that.
If you sell, be prepared to have some version of customer service. You don't have to give a return if not within what you had set as guidelines, but you don't have to try to be the next big jerk and get your kicks at someone else's expense.
btw.....not everyone is an EXPERT, at coins or ebay....so, if you didn't have a good desc of the coin/set and it wasn't "brand new as shipped from the mint", then I would feel like you are hiding problems with it. in this case, why didn't you give a good desc? Did you feel that would stop bidders? If so, then I think you were trying to hide it (even given the good, large, pic).
Btw...you said 12 days he had it....any contact with him during that time or are you just going by when the PO said it was delivered?
Was it a PO? If anyone had something delivered to me last week, they would wait more than a week for a reply as I am away on a business trip. But, it would have been delivered as my family is at home.
Sometimes, I know there are reasons to be cautious, but I also feel too many people are cynical or get a kick out of being rude to others. (actually, that is a personal joy of mine...to be rude...but I only get pleasure from it when I know the person and it is done jokingly)
Ron
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
New ebayers don't know better (on either end). Too many people on here are coin and ebay veterans. Forget what others think/go through.
Also, someone who is completely upfront is likely to mention it as well as it is one of the items of doing ebay business.
I know many people in real life who give WAY too much info and can be taken wrongly and out of context.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
As relayer mentioned, he doesn't do text descriptions....well, you know something, just the pictures he posted aren't going to tell EVERYONE what the coin looks like in hand (and it isn't a "non-problem" coin). So, maybe the buyer thought HE was being taken to the cleaners by the seller?
Sorry...but I do try to look at it from all angles and I am not as jaded in this one so I don't think it is as "cut and dry"
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
I looked at it as having to respond in one of four ways:
1) Resign to whatever his demands are (money back or return) or face the wrath of negative feedback
2) Just tell him to return it for a refund - BUT - that is the same as number one.
3) Tell him to leave me positive feedback first, and then he can return the set (but then I'd be doing sort of the same thing, and then he would worry after he returned the set he'd never get a refund)
4) Take the position that I won't respond to an implied threat. If that results in a negative feedback, so be it. It's only eBay.
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<< <i>4) Take the position that I won't respond to an implied threat. If that results in a negative feedback, so be it. It's only eBay >>
Relayer, as I see it, you DID "respond to an implied threat", though I and some other posters are open to the possibility that no threat was necessarily implied.
especially when I was still quite naïve and left feedback on payment. Since I started waiting on feedback, I haven't received one such email.
As buyers that have completed our end should we take holding feedback, a threat from a seller?
Do I understand sellers holding feedback after the buyer has completed their end is OK?
A paid buyer holding feedback until something is resolved is wrong?
I think the saying is " buyer beware " not seller beware. How much money are we talking about?
Personally, out of the 4 options you listed, I would have done #2 or I would have given $x.xx back if that is what I really believed the item were worth......
In other words...I think I can get $20 for the item. It sells for $25. I give $5 back if buyer is willing. Or, give back the shipping.
But, that is just my nature.....I don't want to be taken advantage of, but I do believe in the benefit of the doubt.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>Yes I left him feedback after he paid as I do for everyone, so I am defenseless against a negative. >>
This is why I only leave feedback right away for know forum members...or any other I trust will be fair from all angles.
I think the email reply was kinda mean. If someone sent me one like that, I would def leave a neg feedback. Then, I would never buy anything from the guy again. Then, I would tell all of my friends who buy similar things to never buy from that guy. Then, I would go on the forums I belong to (this one and others) and tell everyone what the guy did. The guy wasn't attacking you, but yet, you were mean to him. I just don't see any excuse for that type of behavior. My personal return policy on ebay is 100% returns minus shipping - NO QUESTIONS ASKED. I view eBay as any type of regular brick and mortar business. I want to make my customers happy. It's just my policy. So far, since June 1999, I have only had one return. And that was just this past November!
To each their own...
Stacy
PS - Although I am new to collecting coins, I do not soo the "oxidation" on the coin. The pictures were blurry (which probably would have kept me from buying it anyway).
Text
Apropos of the coin posse/aka caca: "The longer he spoke of his honor, the tighter I held to my purse."
People sometimes say things in email that they don't really mean or don't stop to think how the other person will interpret what is said. Email is an impersonal form of communication and sometimes people treat it like a type of legal/small print document. A phone call is much different.
I would give the guy a call and I'd be willing to bet you can work out the problem.
<< <i>I voted yes because of your reply and also added you to my do not buy from list. >>
the seller din't do anything wrong here it's the the scumbag worthless piece of s
Still, I doubt he'll neg you; probably just smoke.
Dave
<< <i>Kewl, a threatening email, followed by a condescending one! A sense super customer-seller relationship is forming here.
Still, I doubt he'll neg you; probably just smoke.
Dave >>
He's a scumbag of course he will.
<< <i>signs point to yes >>
What are you doing reading a magic 8 ball.
"Textbook" business, really......all great companies are built this way.
Dave
Just kidding Mark!
Dave
<< <i>Yes, it's very important to assume your customers are "scumbags". This is Selling 101.
"Textbook" business, really......all great companies are built this way.
Dave >>
I don't think any buyer is a scumbag untill they act like one.The fact is this guy is a scum bag.It's truely that simple.