Probably not, but no way to tell for certain from an on line image. I don't think that's really relevant anyway, under the circumstances and I'm not picking on you in saying that Murphy.
Ahhh Murphy- I re read the auction- it does not state pr69 in it whatsoever- as for the 'scratches' did you look at the coins BEFORE you opened the case? I have 15 sets of these from 69-73- and I;ll be damned if I can open one with a fingernail. From the photo it does look like die polish markings - have that on a few of my sets.
The tribal council here does not find you to be to credible at this moment, I would have to somewhat agree- you may have tried to skin the wrong cat in this market. Please hand in your torch and go home- the tribe has spoken.
You know Murphy, I usually a very easy person to get along with. It's an $8 proof set, and the set was returned OPENED! PERIOD! You bought the set on E-bay, you received the set, pulled the half and sent the set back. If I wasn't the one who sold Jerry the sets I wouldn't have said a word, but man those sets just don't fall open!
It is not exactly cheating, I prefer to consider it creative problem solving!!!
<< <i>Russ, I believe Marty said this in his initial post and that's where my comment comes from: "...he is out another CAM 69 proof set."
I was definitely not EVER sent a CAM 69 proof set by anyone in this world! Ever. >>
He meant another CAM 1969 proof set. Marty never made any statement about the grades of the coins except that they weren't nice enough to submit.
Whether you switched the coin or not, I have to agree that between this transaction and the earlier one you posted about, your business isn't worth the trouble to me.
Sean Reynolds
Incomplete planchets wanted, especially Lincoln Cents & type coins.
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
The problem with Murphy, and the reason why he's block fodder for sure, is not so much that he's a crook or anything. Between this thread and the Tim thread I haven't really seen enough evidence to make such an accusation. But Murphy has proven that he's a royal pain in the ass. Returning an $8 proof set? What gall! I think if I was supremely dissatisfied with the set, I'd either just resell it, or crack and spend it.
Bottom line, Murphy: you just aren't worth the trouble, sorry to say.
I have to go, but y'all feel free to have at it now. -Murphy
Whether or not you were to leave, we'd still have at it. It's pretty clear the Kennedy in the pic and the one recieved back are nothing alike, unless he didn't lampshade the second one. Hell, the quarter is even on a different angle.
Yes... it says BULLSHOT.
-Daniel
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
-Aristotle
Dum loquimur fugerit invida aetas. Carpe diem quam minimum credula postero.
Even if anybody believed murphy about not switching the kennedy...... there's still the issue of returning an $8 proof set- give me a freakin' break.....
My style is impetuous, my defense is impregnable !
<< <i>Even if anybody believed murphy about not switching the kennedy...... there's still the issue of returning an $8 proof set- give me a freakin' break..... >>
Yep, it appears our friend Murphy has some real issues.
"I always thought if a container was cracked open the coin or coins were considered sold."
A seller should never make an exception to this rule.
Return the coin or coins for refund, within the return privilege time, if you disagree with my description. The coin or coins must be returned to me in their original, unopened and undamaged holder as I sent them out to receive refund.
Send the coin or coins to me after opening or causing damage to the holder anyway? No refund but I'll send coin or coins you bought back to you IF you send me a note bearing the picture of Honest Abe + postage money first.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
Maybe some of you dont know it, but as someone who routinely interogates people who aren't telling the truth, I'll caveat this with, body language tells me more than anything else, but...
There were many things in Murphys post that really made me think the possibility exists that Mr Murphy isn't telling the whole truth. The way he responded, and exactly what he wrote, is what I normally hear from guilty people. I'll leave it at that... Mr Murphy please respond so I can get more from what you write... maybe I'm wrong, but at this point my initial belief is that you did in fact break open the proof set and switch the coins, all for $8.
If you did it, then appologize, make it right and learn from it. If you didn't, then I'm sure you'll make it right and press on. Returning the item, after the seller received a broken set with the possibility of a coin being switched, is the only right thing to do... it would possibily make a number of the people on this board change their mind about letting you bid on their auctions.
I look forward to reading your reply Mr Murphy.
Have a nice day!
Steve
U.S. Air Force Security Forces Retired
In memory of the USAF Security Forces lost: A1C Elizabeth N. Jacobson, 9/28/05; SSgt Brian McElroy, 1/22/06; TSgt Jason Norton, 1/22/06; A1C Lee Chavis, 10/14/06; SSgt John Self, 5/14/07; A1C Jason Nathan, 6/23/07; SSgt Travis Griffin, 4/3/08; 1Lt Joseph Helton, 9/8/09; SrA Nicholas J. Alden, 3/3/2011. God Bless them and all those who have lost loved ones in this war. I will never forget their loss.
Maybe some of you dont know it, but as someone who routinely interogates people who aren't telling the truth, I'll caveat this with, body language tells me more than anything else, but...
There were many things in Murphys post that really made me think the possibility exists that Mr Murphy isn't telling the whole truth. The way he responded, and exactly what he wrote, is what I normally hear from guilty people. I'll leave it at that... Mr Murphy please respond so I can get more from what you write... maybe I'm wrong, but at this point my initial belief is that you did in fact break open the proof set and switch the coins, all for $8.
If you did it, then appologize, make it right and learn from it. If you didn't, then I'm sure you'll make it right and press on. Returning the item, after the seller received a broken set with the possibility of a coin being switched, is the only right thing to do... it would possibily make a number of the people on this board change their mind about letting you bid on their auctions.
I look forward to reading your reply Mr Murphy.
Have a nice day!
Steve >>
Also, the evidence is in the photos. The only "reasonable doubt" is the possibility that:
1. The original auction photo was enhanced (very hard to do, very unlikely) 2. The set was cracked and the JFK was switched by the seller (also unlikely -- on an $8 set? Also, seller has no history of being irrational)
Yes, there is "reasonable doubt". And if one believes (1) or (2) above is true, then one would also believe O.J. Simpson was framed!!
1. Mr Murphy has already proven to be irrational (or at least uninformed) due to previous posts...
2. Marty may be a little nuts (no offense Marty), but his creditability (that I've seen) has never been at question.
3. Read Mr Murphys original reply... it says volumes to me, as someone who hears the exact same lame denials, almost to the same wording or sentence structure, as a guilty person. The proof is in the pudding... read it again... it's there. Some of you caught parts of it, but there are more significant signs of possible deceit I see.
4. Could there be reasonable doubt... of course there could. My original post stated my opinion as to the fact or fiction of Mr Murphys response and possible ways to fix the problem. That's it!
5. I won’t add anything else about Mr Murphys post until he responds, if he does, due to the fact I don’t want to reveal exactly what he wrote that signified my suspicion. His next reply will either prove my original thought or change my (and potentially others) mind.
Discuss amongst yourselves…
Steve
U.S. Air Force Security Forces Retired
In memory of the USAF Security Forces lost: A1C Elizabeth N. Jacobson, 9/28/05; SSgt Brian McElroy, 1/22/06; TSgt Jason Norton, 1/22/06; A1C Lee Chavis, 10/14/06; SSgt John Self, 5/14/07; A1C Jason Nathan, 6/23/07; SSgt Travis Griffin, 4/3/08; 1Lt Joseph Helton, 9/8/09; SrA Nicholas J. Alden, 3/3/2011. God Bless them and all those who have lost loved ones in this war. I will never forget their loss.
Kennedy was a fair a decent man, his coin is pretty nice too. Murphy is NOT a nice man and is also on my blocked list-only person there so far. If I received a bad cheap proof set I would and HAVE eaten it. Some I break open and place in a holder on a window sill and try toning experiments. Others I give away, or place in my year sets in albums or type sets. I just paid 5 times that for shipping on a bottle! To make such a fuss proves unworthiness to deal with from a sellers stand point. AND, I only sell 1 or 2 coins a year!! Bad carma dude! Ray
You only live life once, enjoy it like it's your last day. It just MIGHT be!
<< <i>Playing devil's (or in this case Murphy's) advocate for a moment here....
Is it possible that the set was damaged in the mail and that the Half Dollar hazed up from exposure to air? >>
Yes, that stuff does happen. When I open proof sets, I deal with the particular coins that I cracked the set for and let the others lay on my table for a few days. Some of those coins haze up quite a bit and the silver Kennedys the most!
<< <i>When I open proof sets, I deal with the particular coins that I cracked the set for and let the others lay on my table for a few days. Some of those coins haze up quite a bit and the silver Kennedys the most! >>
ken, I have seen Proof coins haze up almost instantly upon exposure to air.
I couldn't tell from the images if the set had merely been opened or damaged in the mail.
I do think a number of forum members have convicted Murphy without adequate proof of his guilt.
The issue of returning an $8 item is a separate matter, as was his other episode which was documented here previously.
<< <i>Having had time to think about it and reading the responses, I think he will want to comment further >>
What could or should he say at this point?
If he was being truthful, what's the point in defending himself (yet) again? People either believe him or not based on what he already said. It's unlikely that repeating it will have any affect on anyone.
And, if he was lying, his only choices would be to repeat the denial or come clean.
Thanks for a smooth transaction. Good luck with future trades. AAA-#1 EBayer Buyer murphyaln ( 97) Feb-17-05 22:31 3955805811
Murphy left positive feedback for the seller on 2/17. I could not find that any feedback from seller was left for Murphy. I wonder about this because it is common practice for a seller to leave positive feedback for a buyer very soon after payment has been received for an item.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
Mr.1874 wrote: "Return the coin or coins for refund, within the return privilege time, if you disagree with my description. The coin or coins must be returned to me in their original, unopened and undamaged holder as I sent them out to receive refund.
That's just it, Murphy has been witholding information from all of you. Everyone is up in arms because the set was only valued at $8.00 and who in their right mind would make such a big deal about an $8.00 set?
What Murphy has conveniently failed to disclose is the fact that Jerry not only sent Murphy a second set, he (Jerry) also told Murphy to keep the first set.
I'm sure marty will back me up on this if need be.
Comments
<< <i>Coinguy, will it grade PR69? >>
Probably not, but no way to tell for certain from an on line image. I don't think that's really relevant anyway, under the circumstances and I'm not picking on you in saying that Murphy.
<<Probably not, but no one said including the description that it was PR-69.>>
Oh no? You better read Marty's first post. That's what I was referring to in my statement.
My EBay Store/Auctions
The tribal council here does not find you to be to credible at this moment, I would have to somewhat agree- you may have tried to skin the wrong cat in this market. Please hand in your torch and go home- the tribe has spoken.
<< <i>all the long distance phone calls putting up with the jerk and he is out another CAM 69 proof set. >>
I took that to mean "CAM 1969" and not a 69CAM coin.
Cameron Kiefer
My EBay Store/Auctions
<< <i>
<< <i>all the long distance phone calls putting up with the jerk and he is out another CAM 69 proof set. >>
I took that to mean "CAM 1969" and not a 69CAM coin.
Cameron Kiefer >>
That's how I read it too.
Complete Dime Set
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>all the long distance phone calls putting up with the jerk and he is out another CAM 69 proof set. >>
I took that to mean "CAM 1969" and not a 69CAM coin.
Cameron Kiefer >>
That's how I read it too. >>
Ditto. I think Marty meant Jerry was out a CAM 1969 Proof Set -- Thats how I read it.
<< <i>I have to go, but y'all feel free to have at it now.
Go what? Get a new eBay account?
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
<< <i>but man those sets just don't fall open! >>
So true. I bust them open with a screwdriver
Aerospace Structures Engineer
"Senorita HepKitty"
"I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
<< <i>Russ, I believe Marty said this in his initial post and that's where my comment comes from:
"...he is out another CAM 69 proof set."
I was definitely not EVER sent a CAM 69 proof set by anyone in this world! Ever. >>
He meant another CAM 1969 proof set. Marty never made any statement about the grades of the coins except that they weren't nice enough to submit.
Whether you switched the coin or not, I have to agree that between this transaction and the earlier one you posted about, your business isn't worth the trouble to me.
Sean Reynolds
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
Drop and gimme 50, you proof set cracking, coin robbing dickweed!
Yes, the tribe has spoken and Murphy should leave for at least a little while. Maybe 10-20 years!
tlhoy-
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
The tribal elders have thus spake.
Camelot
Truly a shame! BLOCKED BLOCKED...and then I checked to make sure that he was BLOCKED!
Can you say mud?
The villagers have spoken and demanded that you be blocked.
U.S. Nickels Complete Set with Major Varieties, Circulation Strikes
U.S. Dimes Complete Set with Major Varieties, Circulation Strikes
Bottom line, Murphy: you just aren't worth the trouble, sorry to say.
Really, trying to cheat a fellow collector out of a measly $10, then coming on here and lying about it, insulting members' intelligence? Pathetic.
-Murphy
Whether or not you were to leave, we'd still have at it. It's pretty clear the Kennedy in the pic and the one recieved back are nothing alike, unless he didn't lampshade the second one. Hell, the quarter is even on a different angle.
Yes... it says BULLSHOT.
-Daniel
-Aristotle
Dum loquimur fugerit invida aetas. Carpe diem quam minimum credula postero.
-Horace
<< <i>Now you all know the truth about me - I am a complete and utter dumbass. I am so sorry. >>
Yes,yes,and yes.
Herb
"GOT TO LOVE THEM SMALL SIZE DEUCES, SC's, LT's & FRN's"
John DeRocker
President/CEO
The Rocks Collectables, LLC
TRC, LLC
jderocker003@gmail.com
SPMC Member - LIFETIME
EBAY - TRC, LLC
<< <i>Even if anybody believed murphy about not switching the kennedy...... there's still the issue of returning an $8 proof set- give me a freakin' break.....
Yep, it appears our friend Murphy has some real issues.
Whoops ! headed for the back yard now,frag grenade and me are havin a meeting !
Proof
You been drinking this evening proof?
A seller should never make an exception to this rule.
Return the coin or coins for refund, within the return privilege time, if you disagree with my description. The coin or coins must be returned to me in their original, unopened and undamaged holder as I sent them out to receive refund.
Send the coin or coins to me after opening or causing damage to the holder anyway? No refund but I'll send coin or coins you bought back to you IF you send me a note bearing the picture of Honest Abe + postage money first.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
Maybe some of you dont know it, but as someone who routinely interogates people who aren't telling the truth, I'll caveat this with, body language tells me more than anything else, but...
There were many things in Murphys post that really made me think the possibility exists that Mr Murphy isn't telling the whole truth. The way he responded, and exactly what he wrote, is what I normally hear from guilty people. I'll leave it at that... Mr Murphy please respond so I can get more from what you write... maybe I'm wrong, but at this point my initial belief is that you did in fact break open the proof set and switch the coins, all for $8.
If you did it, then appologize, make it right and learn from it. If you didn't, then I'm sure you'll make it right and press on. Returning the item, after the seller received a broken set with the possibility of a coin being switched, is the only right thing to do... it would possibily make a number of the people on this board change their mind about letting you bid on their auctions.
I look forward to reading your reply Mr Murphy.
Have a nice day!
Steve
In memory of the USAF Security Forces lost: A1C Elizabeth N. Jacobson, 9/28/05; SSgt Brian McElroy, 1/22/06; TSgt Jason Norton, 1/22/06; A1C Lee Chavis, 10/14/06; SSgt John Self, 5/14/07; A1C Jason Nathan, 6/23/07; SSgt Travis Griffin, 4/3/08; 1Lt Joseph Helton, 9/8/09; SrA Nicholas J. Alden, 3/3/2011. God Bless them and all those who have lost loved ones in this war. I will never forget their loss.
<< <i>Okay... gotta say this flat out.
Maybe some of you dont know it, but as someone who routinely interogates people who aren't telling the truth, I'll caveat this with, body language tells me more than anything else, but...
There were many things in Murphys post that really made me think the possibility exists that Mr Murphy isn't telling the whole truth. The way he responded, and exactly what he wrote, is what I normally hear from guilty people. I'll leave it at that... Mr Murphy please respond so I can get more from what you write... maybe I'm wrong, but at this point my initial belief is that you did in fact break open the proof set and switch the coins, all for $8.
If you did it, then appologize, make it right and learn from it. If you didn't, then I'm sure you'll make it right and press on. Returning the item, after the seller received a broken set with the possibility of a coin being switched, is the only right thing to do... it would possibily make a number of the people on this board change their mind about letting you bid on their auctions.
I look forward to reading your reply Mr Murphy.
Have a nice day!
Steve >>
Also, the evidence is in the photos. The only "reasonable doubt" is the possibility that:
1. The original auction photo was enhanced (very hard to do, very unlikely)
2. The set was cracked and the JFK was switched by the seller (also unlikely -- on an $8 set? Also, seller has no history of being irrational)
Yes, there is "reasonable doubt". And if one believes (1) or (2) above is true, then one would also believe O.J. Simpson was framed!!
1. Mr Murphy has already proven to be irrational (or at least uninformed) due to previous posts...
2. Marty may be a little nuts (no offense Marty), but his creditability (that I've seen) has never been at question.
3. Read Mr Murphys original reply... it says volumes to me, as someone who hears the exact same lame denials, almost to the same wording or sentence structure, as a guilty person. The proof is in the pudding... read it again... it's there. Some of you caught parts of it, but there are more significant signs of possible deceit I see.
4. Could there be reasonable doubt... of course there could. My original post stated my opinion as to the fact or fiction of Mr Murphys response and possible ways to fix the problem. That's it!
5. I won’t add anything else about Mr Murphys post until he responds, if he does, due to the fact I don’t want to reveal exactly what he wrote that signified my suspicion. His next reply will either prove my original thought or change my (and potentially others) mind.
Discuss amongst yourselves…
Steve
In memory of the USAF Security Forces lost: A1C Elizabeth N. Jacobson, 9/28/05; SSgt Brian McElroy, 1/22/06; TSgt Jason Norton, 1/22/06; A1C Lee Chavis, 10/14/06; SSgt John Self, 5/14/07; A1C Jason Nathan, 6/23/07; SSgt Travis Griffin, 4/3/08; 1Lt Joseph Helton, 9/8/09; SrA Nicholas J. Alden, 3/3/2011. God Bless them and all those who have lost loved ones in this war. I will never forget their loss.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
Is it possible that the set was damaged in the mail and that the Half Dollar hazed up from exposure to air?
<< <i>Playing devil's (or in this case Murphy's) advocate for a moment here....
Is it possible that the set was damaged in the mail and that the Half Dollar hazed up from exposure to air? >>
Yes, that stuff does happen. When I open proof sets, I deal with the particular coins that I cracked the set for and let the others lay on my table for a few days. Some of those coins haze up quite a bit and the silver Kennedys the most!
<< <i>When I open proof sets, I deal with the particular coins that I cracked the set for and let the others lay on my table for a few days. Some of those coins haze up quite a bit and the silver Kennedys the most! >>
ken, I have seen Proof coins haze up almost instantly upon exposure to air.
I couldn't tell from the images if the set had merely been opened or damaged in the mail.
I do think a number of forum members have convicted Murphy without adequate proof of his guilt.
The issue of returning an $8 item is a separate matter, as was his other episode which was documented here previously.
Apropos of the coin posse/aka caca: "The longer he spoke of his honor, the tighter I held to my purse."
<< <i>... Also, seller has no history of being irrational...
>>
Coinhusker1: your killing me!!
and they're cold.
I don't want nobody to shoot me in the foxhole."
Mary
Best Franklin Website
<< <i>Having had time to think about it and reading the responses, I think he will want to comment further >>
What could or should he say at this point?
If he was being truthful, what's the point in defending himself (yet) again? People either believe him or not based on what he already said. It's unlikely that repeating it will have any affect on anyone.
And, if he was lying, his only choices would be to repeat the denial or come clean.
<< <i>Playing devil's (or in this case Murphy's) advocate for a moment here....
Is it possible that the set was damaged in the mail and that the Half Dollar hazed up from exposure to air? >>
I have seen proof coins haze from exposure to air upon cracking a set. I have NEVER seen proof coins lose their frost when a set is cracked!
<< <i>I have seen proof coins haze from exposure to air upon cracking a set. I have NEVER seen proof coins lose their frost when a set is cracked! >>
Fair point. And, IF both sets of images are accurate, the coins (halves) appear to be different, even taking the haze into account.
Buyer murphyaln ( 97) Feb-17-05 22:31 3955805811
Murphy left positive feedback for the seller on 2/17. I could not find that any feedback from seller was left for Murphy. I wonder about this because it is common practice for a seller to leave positive feedback for a buyer very soon after payment has been received for an item.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
That's just it, Murphy has been witholding information from all of you. Everyone is up in arms because the set was only valued at $8.00 and who in their right mind would make such a big deal about an $8.00 set?
What Murphy has conveniently failed to disclose is the fact that Jerry not only sent Murphy a second set, he (Jerry) also told Murphy to keep the first set.
I'm sure marty will back me up on this if need be.
Jim