POLL: Would you bid seriously on a raw coin in a major auction?

Barry

I once got burned on a raw coin and said never again. I wonder what other's experiences have been?

If a coin is raw in a major auction (not including Stacks), should one assume it's a problem coin?

MrEureka

If a coin is raw in a major auction (not including Stacks), should one assume it's a problem coin?

Raw or slabbed, why assume anything? Just look at the coin and figure it out.

RYK

I rarely bid alone in auctions, but my previous experience with raw coins in auction was limited and mostly good. Obviously, sight-seen auction is preferred. The next best option is to have a trusted rep check out the coin. One can also use the pros at the auction firm to give you info on the coin.

That said, like you, I generally assume that a raw expensive coin at auction is a problem coin.

tradedollarnut

The biggest problem I've seen with raw coins at auction is that the flips tend to hide light lines from even good graders.

I've gotten good deals [Vermeule 1873-CC, Carter 1874-CC] raw .... but it's not for the faint of heart!

mgoodm3

Only with very good pictures (not likely to happen), or with someone to personally view it prior.

jcping

For low price coins, yes, raw is okay since slabbing fee is high (percentage-wise).
For high price coins, say anything over $500, no more raw coin to me.

Julian

In a heartbeat!!

The only caveat is to first examine the coin.

If you are unable to examine the coin, in person, yourself, retain an agent.

I have bought coins at auctions for nearly 40 years, but I do not bid, if the condition is important, without examination.

Auction houses rarely will accept returns, except for authenticity. IMHO, the reason why encapsulated coins are so popular is because the auctioneer or seller has no responsibility after the sale.

As Andy pointed out earlier, assume nothing about a raw coin.

I like seeing raw coins because there is far less competition, both on the bourse floor and at auction.

Unfortunately, numismatists are becoming less knowledgable because they are depending on the TPGS

Learning to evaluate the coin, yourself, is extremely important.

It all goes to the bottom line:
Is this coin worth $X to me?

cosmicdebris

Never again without seeing the coin in hand.

<<(not including Stacks)>>

P.S. Why'd you single out Stack's?

airplanenut

<< <i>P.S. Why'd you single out Stack's? >>

I don't think Stack's auctions slabbed stuff, or, if they do, their majority is still raw--they just take the pre-slabbing approach, as opposed to the houses where only one or two coins isn't slabbed, in which case you have to wonder why.

Jeremy

coynclecter

If it's an expensive coin I really don't understand why someone would not pay the 30 bucks to authenticate and grade it. Most of the expensive coins I've seen that are still raw usually answer that question upon examination. If I can't find anything then I usually worry about what I missed.

The grades of most unslabbed expensive coins are known to the owner. Short of some well known coins that speak for themselves, the owner is usually hoping someone will miss something and grade it higher.

Lots of times they are coins with eye appeal that have been cracked out a grade that due to some flaw they could never surpass.

Julian

He singled out Stack's because they are more likely to sell unencapsulated coins. They do not need to have someone else take away their responsibility.

They have only been doing it for seventy years.

OKbustchaser

<< <i>Never again without seeing the coin in hand.

<<(not including Stacks)>>

P.S. Why'd you single out Stack's? >>



I am not the OP, but I assume that he singled out Stack's because they are about the only major auction house left which doesn't almost require a consignor to send in his collection for slabbing prior to sale. If you look at a Stack's sale you will find that slabbed coins are the exception--not the rule.

By the way, I answered yes.

Jim


Edited to add that evidently I don't post fast enough!

Longacre

I don't trust my grading skills enough to buy raw. Maybe someday though.

cosmicdebris

Ah I see. Thanks. By the way the only raw coin I was not happy with was from a Stack's auction.

ER

Only if it's guaranteed (money back) authentic by the auction house.

MacCrimmon

More RAW for me, please.

I evaluate coins, not slabs.

95% of my British collection is raw and will remain so. The vast majority are condition, if not outright rarities.

Last year I bought over 60 exceptional Swiss coins...they were all raw, excepting 2-3 which had been slabbed 10-15 years ago. Buying raw allows for better pricing on gem+ material......I'll stay nekkid for now.

mrearlygold

Of course!

Tom

boiler78

Never sight unseen but I don't buy certified coins sight unseen either.

MrEureka

He singled out Stack's because they are more likely to sell unencapsulated coins. They do not need to have someone else take away their responsibility.

Julian - Auctioneers, Stack's included, have no "responsibilities" whatsoever beyond a guaranty of authenticity. Doesn't matter if the coin is raw or slabbed.

Barry

<< <i>Never again without seeing the coin in hand.

<<(not including Stacks)>>

P.S. Why'd you single out Stack's? >>


Because in a Stack's auction, a raw coin doesn't stand out like a sore thumb for being raw. To me, that makes it more suspect as being a problem coin. Most coins are raw at Stack's (and any time I've bid on one, it's after a dealer representing me has evaluated the coin).

beartracks42

I bid on and won an auction in the Heritage Long Beach auction several yrs. ago. there were two coins in the lot; 1 was an 1881-CC CH Bu Morgan and the other was a CH BU 1885-CC Morgan. I was basically just getting into Morgans, so I was a NEWB. I bid $579, over the internet, for the lot and won it. the two coins are now in PCGS hplders. the 81 is a 64 and the 85 is a 63, and both are blast white.

Elcontador

Absolutely not. As someone said earlier, if the seller doesn't think it isn't worth $30 to slab it, I don't think the coin is worth serious $. Once a coin is slabbed, I'll at least look at it and see what I think about it. Do I believe it is graded correctly? Is it a liner coin, properly graded or nice for the grade?

Oh, I also won't bid on a slabbed coin sight unseen (unless someone I trusts views it for me, in which case it technically would not be sight unseen).

Jaywalker

I buy raw coins up to $200 to $300.

But I wouldn't bid "seriously" above that on any raw coin. Even if I considered myself the best grader in the world (which I'm not). Why? Because I might want to sell it someday, and if I had to submit it to sell it, I could never be sure of the grade a TPG would give it. My "gem" could come back AU58.

longtimecollector

<< <i>Absolutely not. As someone said earlier, if the seller doesn't think it isn't worth $30 to slab it, I don't think the coin is worth serious $. Once a coin is slabbed, I'll at least look at it and see what I think about it. >>


Jeez-O-Pete man........... Grow some "nads" and buy a raw coin !!! Not every coin worth more than a few $ is entombed in archival quality plastic....... Would you believe there still is a market for raw coins? If you think you can accurately assess the grade, and tell the difference between low end, right on, high end mintstate coins as you say you can, you shouldn't have any qualms about buying raw...... Sounds like an attitude that will keep you from seeing some nice coins...............

anablep

yes

JrGMan2004

Depends on the collection being sold...

Russel Logan... Yes...

Legend Laura... No...

Lakesammman

In this day and age, there better be a reason why a "significant" coin is raw. If I can't detect the problem, someone more experienced than me did.

Nic

Of course! K

mercurynut

Nope! Unless its a G4 for an album I will not bid on anything hasn't been graded by PCGS or NGC!

BigMoose

Hell yes! I have done it many times, mostly for Early Copper. Most of the great Early Copper Sales from the last 20 years were mainly raw coins, Superior's Jack Robinson Sale, Robbie Brown's Sales, Stack's Hain Collection etc. etc. BUT, I always either look at the lots personally or use a much trusted dealer friend to view the lots if I am unable to attend the sale.

Elcontador

Longtime Collector:

<< Absolutely not. As someone said earlier, if the seller doesn't think it isn't worth $30 to slab it, I don't think the coin is worth serious $. Once a coin is slabbed, I'll at least look at it and see what I think about it. >>

I meant every word of it. Anything I buy that IMO is expensive, I insure. If you own a home, do you have homeowner's insurance? If not, I think you're judgement is horrid.

I've been collecting since the 1960s and I've seen plenty of raw coins. I think I grade coins as well as most, but I don't have such a big ego that I don't believe that I cannot make a mistake. I won't even buy a slabbed coin without getting a second opinion.

It's not a matter of lack of confidence. Rather, it's buying smart and reducing the possibility of making expensive mistakes. In 1968, I bought a beautiful coin that had a long thin scratch that I didn't see. Decades later that error on my part was the difference between a $500 and a $50 coin. I make a point of doing everything I can to minimize the possibility of that happening again.

It's not a matter of "growing nads." It's a matter of not being stupid. As Tim said, these days, with the possible exception of EAC material, if it's rare and it's raw, chances are that there's a problem. I have enough problems without going out of my way to purchase the problems of others, thank you.


I don't care who buys raw coins. People watch the Oscars, too. You can do anything you like, as long as it doesn't affect me personally. Buy every raw coin you can. But when you spend $10,000 on a raw coin and when you try to sell it and no one will touch it because it has environmental damage or worse, don't expect any sympathy from me.

michael

oin is raw in a major auction (not including Stacks), should one assume it's a problem coin?

Raw or slabbed, why assume anything? Just look at the coin and figure it out.

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Andy Lustig
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Julian
Veteran

Posts: 551
Joined: Jun 2002
Monday February 28, 2005 4:52 PM



In a heartbeat!!

The only caveat is to first examine the coin.

If you are unable to examine the coin, in person, yourself, retain an agent.

I have bought coins at auctions for nearly 40 years, but I do not bid, if the condition is important, without examination.

Auction houses rarely will accept returns, except for authenticity. IMHO, the reason why encapsulated coins are so popular is because the auctioneer or seller has no responsibility after the sale.

As Andy pointed out earlier, assume nothing about a raw coin.

I like seeing raw coins because there is far less competition, both on the bourse floor and at auction.

Unfortunately, numismatists are becoming less knowledgable because they are depending on the TPGS

Learning to evaluate the coin, yourself, is extremely important.

It all goes to the bottom line:
Is this coin worth $X to me?

rhedden

There is no harm in buying early copper and colonials raw in major auctions, especially in circulated grades. On the other hand, if you're talking about high grade, high dollar proofs and Unc.'s, you have to wonder why they aren't slabbed. I'm not about to buy an 1884-S Morgan in raw "MS-62" only to find out later that PCGS thinks it's AU-58.

coynclecter

<< <i>Raw or slabbed, why assume anything? Just look at the coin and figure it out >>



Thats fine if you're looking at one coin. If I'm going through 100 lots at an auction sooner or later even the best grader will make a mistake and that's the one you will be the high bidder on.

Lakesammman

Forgot about large cents - Moose is right on there. Can't think of many other exceptions.

Shamika

If you're going to bid at a Stack's auction, it will most likely be raw.