1984 PSA Ralston Purina - Need an answer PSA!!

40ozman

I know most of you guys could care less about this, and I've been over it before on the boards. A lot of us have been told that PSA WILL NOT grade these. I've never got an answer from them, despite numerous requests via email. Leaves me short of completing my registered set, at 87.88%. I have plenty of raw (100's of sets) and I am sure that I could complete my set and upgrade past my current 9.17 GPA.

Today I get on ebay and see these
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=55928&item=5169492376&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=55928&item=5169560412&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW


The first one is an Eddie Murray 10. I have had a 10 in my set, and it is listed as 1of1. The second is Mike Schimdt that is a 1of1 10, which I have a nine 1of3. Like all my Ralstons they have been in my set for about 1 year. Here's the pops listed for these cards cut and paisted from my set reg.
1 EDDIE MURRAY 10 1 0
22 MIKE SCHMIDT 9 3 0

If my cards have been in my set for a year and PSA pops are true, these two listed on EBAY by 4sharpcorners are recently graded. The question is, why won't PSA grade Ralstons from regular customers? Collectors on this board have tried to get these graded, and have been told no. I ask PSA direct questions about this set and get no response. What's the deal PSA??
Is the real answer you will only grade these for high volume customers, and not the collectors?? If this is the case, you have prevented me for having many 1of1's, and given them to 4sharpcorners so they can cash in on selling these low pops for much more than they should be worth? This also forces me to buy these from 4sharpconers at inflated prices. While law is not my expertise, isn't this illegal on the civil and CRIMINAL side??
I have been a supporter of PSA for a long time. I have ignored the bashing, and allegations thrown at PSA (fill in the blanks, but most notiably WIWAG). I've always written all of these off as PSA being on top, and people will always try to take down the big dog. I think I, as well as others, deserve answers on this issue. The answer should not be, "We'll grade them now, send 'em in." PSA needs to answer why people were told there cards wouldn't be graded, and why my email was completely ignored. When it was pretty obvious you'll grade them for special customers.
I simply want some kinda answer with substance here. Last time this was a topic here, I said I'd take my set over to SGC, just so I complete it. Now I'm ready to take all my business there. Any collector here that can give any information regarding Ralstons(rejected submitions, communication w/PSA regarding these) PLEASE EMAIL AT JEFF359@EARTHLINK.NET

mikeschmidt

There is nothing illegal going on here.

But, yes, PSA is being TERRIBLY inconsistent - especially since they told me personally on telephone nine days ago that they were not grading Ralston Purinas

boggs301012

I have been waiting for the owner of that set to complain. They are very incosistent on that issue. I have emailed and ask for a list of cards they don't grade and have been blown off. PSA should post a list it will cut back on rejections and poor customer service. THey sent me a voucher for a 5.00 grade the expires in 3 to 6 months. That special is once a year. 5.00 wasted.


James

mudflap02

I'M SITTING ON A VOUCHER TOO. IF THEY ARE GRADING THEM FOR THE BIGTIME SUBMITTERS, THEY SHOULD MAKE GOOD ON THE VOUCHERS AS WELL.

Onlypsahockey

Screw the big time submitters....they sell their cards to us!

If they grade for them they should grade for you!

JMO, Bob

jackstraw

you don't have to sit on a voucher? just submit the cards with the voucher. it doesn't matter when the special was.

40ozman

My intention is not to imply PSA or anyone else is doing anything illegal, or even immoral. I apoligize if it comes off as that. I simply want a few answers, and believe we all deserve it. Although without more information, it appears that something could be going on here.



<< <i> There is nothing illegal going on here >>

Probably not. Collusion - A secret activity undertaken by two or more people for the purpose of fraud. Is PSA doing this? Probably not. BUT, everyone says PSA refuses to give them an answer on this issue, so something's secret. What the purpose of the secret is, who knows. But what if this is an example of what could be going on with other issues as well? PSA lets certain submitters grade certain issues, while not letting other people. They have created a monoploy for the certain submitter, and increased the amount they resale for because these are now 1 of 1. THIS WOULD BE COLLUSION.

If I was aloud to submit what I have, none of these Ralstons would be even 1 of 5's. Everything in my set, besides one card is from one submision. One of atleast 5 that I had ready to go. Given the % of tens from the first submision, I'm sure I'd get dupes for every card. HOF players would have 4 or 5 of each. My tens and high end 9's would have been 1 of 1's, or low pops across the board if I would have allowed to submit them last year. Now PSA lets a large submitter send there's in, and cash in. And talk about getting F*$?ed twice, if I want a 10 I have to buy them at inflated low pop prices, because I can't grade mine. My goal was only to build this set, all 10s, sell of what was left to recoop my costs. Even if I could grade mine now, it wouldn't be worth it as the pops wouldn't produce the same EBAY results, now that big dealers/submitters are involved.

I figure I'll be banned soon, this issue will die again, and it will be business as usual. If anyone has anything for me drop me an email.

Vintagegolfcollector

I've read several posts on this exact subject. It's a shame and I think PSA should resolve it. Cards should either be graded or not graded. It should not matter who makes the submission.

I wish you luck with this.

Peter

DaBigHurt

Why so much negativity? Is it really that big a deal? PSA has graded MILLIONS of cards and made this hobby what it is today.

I think PSA is doing a great job and being very consistent. Keep up the good work, PSA!

JonB

Obviously it is an extremely big deal to him, and it would be to me too if I was in his situation.

doncherry

40ozman


You have every right to be pissed . I hope you get answers

40ozman

If you read my first post you see I start off "I know most of you guys could care less about this". So Big Hurt if you don't wanna read, and don't care move on. And yes, millions of cards. My response, OK well why 4SC cards and not mine? I simple want feedback from others who have had this issue with Ralstons, and a simple explaination from someone, anyone at PSA. While my quest may same trivial to you Big Hurt, this is important to me. This is one of the only card items I collect and PSA isn't telling me why I can't collect them. Big Hurt, are we supposed to 100% trust PSA or anyone else because "PSA has graded MILLIONS of cards "? Upper Deck printed millons of cards and earned collector trust , then pulled the garbage they did in the early 90's (see Card Sharks). Who can forget the whole Jagr topps refractor lawsuit a few years ago? The most trusted name in cards, back doors us all. We aren't even counting the thousands of shady dealers out there through the years. Lets not forget all those soft, low end 10s that large dealers seem to have.

PSA has earned a degree of trust on my part, and I have in the past stood behind them. My point is, this hobby was built, in part, by people taken advantage of our trust/stupidity. If you want to turn a blind eye because "PSA has graded MILLIONS of cards", by all means, I'm not going tell you what to do. I'm trying to be a responsible consumer. I simply want answers before I spend anymore of money grading at PSA, or buying PSA slabs. WIWAG this isn't, but I'd like an explaination.

DaBigHurt

Thus far, you've brought up WIWAG at least twice. You've wondered whether what PSA is doing is 'criminal' and used profanity. You've even brought up Topps and their gold refractors and how Upper Deck screwed over people in the past by opening their backdoors to certain people. Is it possible this is an honest mistake by PSA? You know, how sometimes in a big company, the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing? Or do you actually think there's a grand conspiracy to defraud the millions of Ralston Purina PSA collectors out there and corner this lucrative market?

I'm going to give PSA the benefit of the doubt, based on their track record.

boggs301012

<< <i>you don't have to sit on a voucher? just submit the cards with the voucher. it doesn't matter when the special was. >>



I dont want to get off track . But it does matter the last time I used one PSA/Customer service held up my order til I returned their call and said they would make an exception this time. SO now I just toss the vouchers. I submitted modern 8.00 per with a 5.00 voucher this upset their delicate system.



James

dabighurt...what an as$

Ripken

PSA also used to grade Starliner decals that were issued in the '80s but stopped doing that as well. There is definitely inconsistency with some oddball issues--and they may have their reasons for some but I see NO reason why they won't grade your Ralston cards. It was a legitimate issue, wasn't it?

Regarding voucher expiration, I wrote Joe O about that a few weeks ago & never got a response. Seems to me if we send them the $, and they keep it, the voucher expirations should be AT LEAST good for a year, especially if you have to use them on the same service. Some of us don't submit that often.

jackstraw

boggs you cant combine them you have to submit them on the invoice they send you without any other service levels. i just did it last month. if the voucher is for 2 cards thats all you submit. if its for 12 cards then you submit 12.

john

NickM

4SC also had a Ralston Nolan Ryan PSA 9 (with a new cert #) a few weeks ago. It didn't get a bid at $24.95, but then got at least one bid at $9.95 (I don't remember what it sold for). The Gary Carter that closed recently is an old one - from Abe's Master Set.

I too am collecting this set (3 cards so far, including the 1/1 Reggie PSA 9) and would be very unhappy to see it continue where 1 dealer can have issues graded that other submitters cannot.

Nick

[edited to correct the provenance of the Carter]

EagleEyeKid

Hey guys, I've had an expired voucher that was taken care of.
About a year ago, I sent in a bulk submission of 125+ cards. 3 cards were not holdered because of size, and they gave me an $18 voucher which I thought fine. The voucher stated for my next "modern bulk submission". I had never noticed that there was an expiration date (6 months) and the time has lapsed, so I called them and explained that the voucher idea is fine, but shouldn't have an expiration date because I can't guarantee when I'll have my next bulk submission and it's not fair to just lose the $18 which was rightfully mine in the first place. It is stated in the web site that the money would be refunded for non-graded cards. The word "refund" never implies that it would be a voucher, and that's what I was trying to explain to the lady that I spoke to and she agreed. I think her name was Laura and she was very helpful. I sent the expired voucher back to her with my explanation and thoughts about the whole voucher idea, and she submitted it to the accounting department, and I received my proper refund of $18 in a check; although it did take almost 2 months to get it. I was told that the next time I receive a voucher for whatever didn't get graded that it was okay to call them and request a cash refund which I will do. I don't mind a voucher if it's going to be equal to cash; just don't have an expiration date for them.

gregm13

As an FYI, but when I receive a voucher I just deduct the price of the voucher from the order and PSA doesn't seem to mind. For instance, if my order comes to $500 and I have 5 vouchers for the $5 special, I simply pay $475 plus shipping. It's worked for me several times in the past.

Regards,

Greg M.

JimThorpe

In the last group of cards I submitted to PSA, I included a 1984 Topps rubdown card and it came back as no longer being graded.

AkbarClone

I think it is weird to have a set registry for cards that they will not grade! PSA should either start grading them for everyone again or retire/delete the 84 Ralston Purina set from its list of registered sets--just so there is no confusion about it.

and 40ozman, if it will ease your pain any, I'd be willing to buy 3-5 of your raw Ralston Purinas if you have the ones I need.

James

theplasticman

40oz,
I'll buy your Murray if youd like. Im watching the 4sc Murray but wasnt willing to pay that price considering what Ive just read.

send me a note

boggs301012

Did A PSA rep ever get back to you with an answer?

mcastaldi

Boggs> Are you implying that PSA would blow off honest and direct questions from their collector customers (and potential customers)?

I didn't think so.

Mike

Coolidge

Mike, with all due respect, you were asking loaded questions.

mcastaldi

Coolidge> Perhaps you have a different definition of what a "loaded question" is. In these forums and via e-mail, I asked Mr. Hall a total of two questions -
1) Since WIWAG situation has shown that the PSA holder can be compromised with a good deal of success, what plans does PSA have to imrpove the holder to keep this from happening again?
2) Can a list be provided of which fraudulent cards were circulated by WIWAG? If not, how can a collector best keep from buying these fraudulent cards?

I fail to see how either is a loaded question.

Mike

boggs301012

<< <i>Boggs> Are you implying that PSA would blow off honest and direct questions from their collector customers (and potential customers)? >>



Well I aint afraid to speak my mind. I was really wondering I asumed a nice PSA rep got in touch with him. I know the Customer Service reps read the boards. I spoke with a rep a few months back and mentioned whom I spoke to, and how helpful they were. When I spoke to that rep again she was displeased that I mentioned her neam on her COmpany website. There I go getting side tracked....

OK Yes were the hell is a REP answering what should be a no brainer. Do you grade the friggin card or not? Or is back to the old days every odd month you do and even you dont grade the card? They Should buy back every card in that persons registry set he spent money to make and set then PSA pulls the plug. What a sham!.

40ozman

Still nothing from PSA on this issue. Ignored yet another email. I've never had PSA not answer any of my other email question, why not this one? I am jumping to conclusions at this point, and I'm no longer sending things to PSA and will not buy ANY PSA cards. I'm not going to accuse PSA or anyone else
of any wrong doing, but you guys need to think of a few things. Why is PSA ignoring this issue regarding this insignicant issue? Are they hiding something? Is it just a mistake (this mistake benefited on of PSAs largest submitters, not one of us little guys)? Given the money all of us have tied up in PSA cards, we deserve an answer. Even if you don't collect this issue, everone
should demand that PSA give an answer. If I was still going to collect PSA cards, I wouldn't let this issue die.

I don't think any answer will save me at this point, I'm off to SGC

JonB

I don't know anything about this set, so it goes without saying that I don't collect it either.

BUT... I agree, PSA certainly owes all of us an answer to his question. I also agree that the thing to do was send a private email to Joe, but since he hasn't answered in several weeks, I don't see a problem posting the question here.

just my 2cents worth

jimtb

I can't understand this. What reason would they have for not replying? There are three possible answers to the question:
1. Yes we grade them
2. No we don't grade them
3. We once graded them, but because of... we don't grade them anymore.

Honestly, dealing with this company is sometimes like dealing with the government. What's it take to get a straight anwser?
Jim

40ozman

Hey Jim, that's exactly the frustation part of this whole thing. As for the three answer you listed, they are all true. Theses answers have all been given by PSA, just not directly.

1. Yes we grade them - They do grade them proven by the run of ones on EBAY during the last couple of weeks listed by 4SC.
2. No we don't grade them - They won't grade anyone's but 4SC, as proven by MANY rejections by us small submitters.
3. We once graded them, but because of... we don't grade them anymore. - They graded about 25 of mine in the past, they won't now.

The only question that needs to answered is WTF is going on here? Given PSA's refusal to address this issue has lead to me making my own conclusions, which you all can probably figure out. I hope I'm wrong. Untill I'm proven wrong, I'm not spending anymore money on PSA stuff. IMO the burden of proof has shifted to PSA.

koby

I understand that the Ralston Purina cards was distributed in both sheet form and individual card form. Most of the sheets were subsequently cut up, so PSA does not generally grade sheet-cut cards. Will SGC agree to grade the sheet-cut cards?

jackstraw

Thanks for answering the question at hand with a question. PSA would rather lose a customer than answer the question?

40ozman

Ya, almost a month and nothing. And most of you know that this isn't the first time this has been brought up. PSA refuses to deal with this, because they know they F'd up, or they covering something. THIS IS ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF PSA NOT GIVING A DAMN ABOUT ANY OF US, unless of coarse you are a large submitter. As far as Joe O. is concerned, keep the big dogs, get rid of the rest (collectors). All the answers are here, PSA has sent us this message, and i have received it. I am now an SGC customer. While I certainly don't rule out a return to PSA, it won't be without change. I truely hope some other of you guys atleast send emails on this issue, seek answers as we all have to much to lose, if PSA loses there creditiblity. I'm done, hope someone will continue to ask questions.

While there are sheets out there, there are alot more regular issue cards. Most of these were found in white unmarked wax packs that were found in cerial boxes. If want to get technical, most cards can be found in sheet form. ALL of mine were obtained from a full unopened case of these cards that were all sealed within the white wrapper. If PSA's answer is the sheet cut problem, they are admitting to all of us they can't tell the diffrence. AND once again, why 4SC's cards, and not the rest of ours? That is the question at this point. I don't need an answer at this point, I've already made up my mind and I will not be sending anything into PSA or buying any PSA cards.

Please no more email's asking to sell these cards, none are for sale. I am not a dealer, and they are part of my collection. All are being sent to SGC for crossover, as is most of my collection when I can afford to (atleast the stuff that is economically prudent to do so)

Good luck to all, hope things change over here, or atleast they stop putting the screws to the small guy.

boggs301012

You know what is sad. PSA customer service and other people in the COMPANY READ THE BOARDS DAILY!!!! And none have taken the time to respond or atleast pass this thread along. SAd indeed.



James

RipublicaninMass

I am sure Dabighurt would be able to ask his pal in the cubicle next door to respond.

MorrellMan

If I were running a business that happened to have a customer-based message board, and I had discussed a service issue with a dissatisfied customer and was still open to having a conversation regarding it(or not), I would certainly not respond to the issue in a public forum message board.


I'm not a Ralston collector, but if I were, I would band together with the rest of you and discuss this issue with PSA the way normal people discuss issues, not by trying to call them out on a message board. This board isn't reality - we don't even have real names - no offense, but comon, wise up.

Southerncards

40ozman - as a loyal SGC customer, let me say "welcome". You will not be disappointed. SGC's customer service is A+

koby

Hopefully they will be able to recognize the difference between the singles and the sheet cut cards.

jackstraw

I guess PSA can't so thats why he is going to SGC!You can poke all your funny one liners at SGC all you want but at the end of the day they are just as good as PSA! News flash the graders at PSA are not the only ones that can accuaratly grade a piece of cardboard and once you understand that you will be better off with your collection!
pro's for using SGC
1. No mylar sleeve, 2. Answers to your questions,3. no mechanical errors,4. better rates(no cover charge to submit),5. Same card in the same grade for a better price(no inflated prices on cards)6. Don't slap a 10 on every 4th card from DSL or 4SC to keep them submitting , 7. Actually grades the back of a card because its part of it
pro's for using PSA
1. PSA set registry 2. Pay inflated prices because of it 3. Can spend extra on shipping the mechanical errors back to them 4. That beautiful mylar sleeve for your Kelloggs cards 5.?

SportsModerator2

OK Guys, I've been on the road for shows since Fort Washington so this is the first I am seeing this question.

We no longer grade the Ralston Purina cards for anybody. If the decision is made to begin grading them again we will grade them for everybody, collectors or dealers.

Carol

DaBigHurt

<< <i>I guess PSA can't so thats why he is going to SGC!You can poke all your funny one liners at SGC all you want but at the end of the day they are just as good as PSA! News flash the graders at PSA are not the only ones that can accuaratly grade a piece of cardboard and once you understand that you will be better off with your collection!
pro's for using SGC
1. No mylar sleeve, 2. Answers to your questions,3. no mechanical errors,4. better rates(no cover charge to submit),5. Same card in the same grade for a better price(no inflated prices on cards)6. Don't slap a 10 on every 4th card from DSL or 4SC to keep them submitting , 7. Actually grades the back of a card because its part of it
pro's for using PSA
1. PSA set registry 2. Pay inflated prices because of it 3. Can spend extra on shipping the mechanical errors back to them 4. That beautiful mylar sleeve for your Kelloggs cards 5.? >>



Sorry, but I couldn't disagree with you more. There's a reason SGC, GAI and BGS cards don't sell for as much money as PSA cards, and that's because PSA has TRAINED and CERTIFIED professionals grading cards! These people have been in the hobby for decades and have proven that they are the most consistent graders around. Just like you wouldn't go to a doctor who didn't graduate from an accredited medical school or seek help from a lawyer who didn't go to law school, why on earth would you trust your prized cardboard possessions to the hacks from 'across the street?'

Collectors, auction houses and dealers trust the PSA brand more than any other! Take a look at the record prices people on the Set Registry pay for PSA cards and you'll know the EXPERT collectors value the opinion of PSA and put their money where their mouth is.

As for SGC having 'better rates,' I guess the old adage 'you get what you pay for,' definitely applies!

DaBigHurt

<< <i>OK Guys, I've been on the road for shows since Fort Washington so this is the first I am seeing this question.

We no longer grade the Ralston Purina cards for anybody. If the decision is made to begin grading them again we will grade them for everybody, collectors or dealers.

Carol >>



Thank you, Carol!

jimtb

Hi Carol,
Can you explain why they are no longer graded? This is a big issue for us 1980's player collectors, as it creates a scarcity because they were graded at one time.
Thanks,
jim

koby

PSA once graded Star basketball but no longer does so. All the certification numbers on the old PSA labels for Star cards can no longer be verified online. Also, I believe these cards CANNOT be added to the PSA card registry.

When PSA no longer grades certain cards, doesn't PSA go back and delete all previously graded cards from the cert verification? Aren't these cards also not allowed on the regsitry? Is PSA going to do this with the Ralston Purina cards?

boggs301012

I want to know why would/does PSA flip flop on this issue every other month? It seems that way.

NickM

Carol, I know for a fact that PSA has recently (within the last 2 months) graded 1984 Ralston Purina cards that were subsequently sold by 4_sharp_corners. I know this because I had the only PSA 9 Reggie Jackson from '84 Ralston Purina, until the pop report suddenly jumped to 2 of that card, and a PSA 9 Ralston Purina Reggie Jackson showed up on eBay (as well, a number of other Ralston Purina cards with neighboring PSA serial numbers - Schmidt, Ryan, and a couple more).

How did that happen? Did a grader err in not rejecting those cards as a non-graded issue? If so, what sort of screening system is in place to prevent future errors of this nature (which could also happen with Star cards)?

Nick

Southerncards

Sorry, but I couldn't disagree with you more. There's a reason SGC, GAI and BGS cards don't sell for as much money as PSA cards
PSA graded cards do not always sell for more, sometimes they sell for less, its documented

and that's because PSA has TRAINED and CERTIFIED professionals grading cards
Certified? name of the certifying agency? Is there a certificate for some mail order course hanging on the wall of the PSA grader's office that says they are certified card graders?

These people have been in the hobby for decades and have proven that they are the most consistent graders around
I'll respond to that statement when I stop laughing!

Collectors, auction houses and dealers trust the PSA brand more than any other! Take a look at the record prices people on the Set Registry pay for PSA cards and you'll know the EXPERT collectors value the opinion of PSA and put their money where their mouth is.
- actually, "expert" collectors know better than to send their money and cards to the left coast and "expertise is not determined by how much money is spent on cards for the set registry

DaBigHurt

<< <i>
Collectors, auction houses and dealers trust the PSA brand more than any other! Take a look at the record prices people on the Set Registry pay for PSA cards and you'll know the EXPERT collectors value the opinion of PSA and put their money where their mouth is.
- actually, "expert" collectors know better than to send their money and cards to the left coast and "expertise is not determined by how much money is spent on cards for the set registry >>



Yes, we know of the huge collections of raw cards out there that rival the Fogels, Brancas and Luchiosies (sp) of the world.




Or maybe you were referring to the ultra high grade 1914 Cracker Jack set recently graded by Screwdowns with Mylar Tape over the Screws' grading service?

Southerncards

Thanks for repeating my comments, glad you agree.

koby

Southerncards, If you despise PSA so much, why are you here?